One wheel over after weigh-in

[CraigBean7672]

We just returned from a rally where I was able to get my rig weighed (2015 32' 5th wheel). The service performing this used scales to weigh each tire individually, the same type of high-end scales the Highway Patrol use.

According to the attached report the left front 5th wheel tire is overweight by 200lbs...Yikes!

It appears the truck is balanced pretty well, the front left-to-right, rear left-to-right and front to back. The pin weight looks good and it is under 900lbs GCWR, also it is 1500lbs under max rear axle limit.

When I looked at the trailer, it didn't look so good. The left-to-right and front-to-rear balance of the two axles is off. But I wonder how much variance is acceptable. What really concerns me is the left front trailer tire. The LRC tire rating is 2150 max so @ 2350 that means it is 200lbs over. I want to add the trailer is not over-loaded, it is under GVWR by 239lbs.

Before I got it weighed I thought it would be important to know because others have said to move stuff arount to balance the weight, however, the left side has the larger slide containing the refer and oven so I don't see that I can move anything to balance it out. There is no storage in the rear of this unit, nor on the sides over the wheels. There are two areas at the very front where the front jacks are and just behind that area a pass-thru.

I spoke with FR and basically got not traction there even though it's still on warranty. I'm planning on going up to LRD rated tires, so do I just go that or what?

Thoughts and advice welcome.

-Craig

[emm-dee]

Your real problem is running C-load China bomb tires. That brand has a reputation for failing. You can replace them right now or wait until they explode, possibly causing a lot more damage.

I'll defer to people with more fiver experience to answer the rest because with mine we just move the horses around for balance.

[Bama Rambler]

What bothers me about the weights is that the front axles are toting ~600lbs more than the rear axles on both sides. If the RV is level to the surface, the load should be pretty equal between the front and rear axles. I realize that you have torsion axles so the distribution is never going to be equal, but it should be closer than 600lbs.

I think I'd call the axle mfg. and see what they say about it.

[CraigBean7672]

I agree with you guys, so thanks for the suggestions. I'm getting new tires and calling the axle mfg next week.

I thought the 600lbs between the two was quite a lot too, I wonder if there's any rule about that. Perhaps someone with design / engineering knowledge will chime in. The one tire @ 2350 is also concerning.

Forrest River tech guy did not seem concerned with it and I got the impression they'd wait until there's collateral damage before acting on it, whereas, I'm just trying to prevent anything before it occurs.
.

[Tireman9]

Craig
Good job for making the effort to learn the facts on weight distribution.
You are correct to be concerned about the tire load. Overloading a tire can lead to its failure if it is overloaded enough. While you do need to stay under the GVWR it is also important to stay under each axle GAWR and under each tire's max load capacity.

As a point of reference by federal regulation tires on your car are suppose to have no more than 94% of the max tire capacity when the vehicle is fully loaded.
You need to remember that when driving the road is not perfectly flat so load shifts. Also side loading from wind and cornering needs to be considered.

If as you have learned. FR built the RV with enough inherent unbalance that you cannot unload the heavy side of the RV then your only option is to increase tire load capacity.

This means you need more air pressure or more air volume as it is the air pressure and volume not the tire that carries the load.

When increasing the air pressure with a higher Load Range you need to be sure the wheel is rated for the higher pressure so may need new wheels too.

Good luck.

[Skyliner]

Get some decent load range E light truck tires if you can fit them and be done with tire worries. Most ST trailer tires are made in China and are ticking time bombs even if you upgrade your load rating.

Good luck and kudos to you for weighing your camper.

[itat]

I have to disagree with all the "China Bomb" comments thrown around this forum. Pretty much all ST tires are now made in China or somewhere else in Asia and they aren't all crap.

To the OP, definitely upgrade your tires to a reputable LRD tire. I just put Maxxis M8008s LRD on my TT but the Duro LRC tires it came from the factory with performed flawlessly for the 6 years of service they provided. I also had metal valve stems installed for the higher pressure in the LRD tires. Thanks to wmtire for his assistance with that.

[Skyliner]

Maxxis aren't immune from tire blowouts either. I was seriously going to buy a set for my camper and a quick google search dissuade me. I will say that Maxxis tend to have a better reputation than China ST tires.

I'm glad you had a good experience with your Maxxis.

[itat]

Originally Posted by TonyD

Maxxis aren't immune from tire blowouts either. I was seriously going to buy a set for my camper and a quick google search dissuade me. I will say that Maxxis tend to have a better reputation than China ST tires.

I'm glad you had a good experience with your Maxxis.

Tony, I had a good experience with the LRC Duros. I just put the Maxxis tires on last month and haven't been very far with them. Time will tell.

As long as the user is diligent about weights and tire pressure a reputable tire should provide a better chance of avoiding a tire failure. Nothing is guaranteed. On my old '99 Coleman popup, the original Carlyle tires were 13 years old when I sold it. They were definitely overdue for replacement but there were always stored indoors out of the sun.

[DaveSchwartz]

Obviously (see my sig.) I'm biased toward LRD tires on this brand of trailer and agree there's probably not too much you can do about the side-to-side difference. I likely have even more of a side-to-side difference... kitchen AND wardrobe slide on off-door side and only a short slide with two recliners on the door side.

But from the difference on the axles, I sounds to me like the trailer is nose-low. If the truck is squatting excessively you may need to look at those vintage-2003 rear springs (you shouldn't need airbags on a 2500 with that trailer). If the problem isn't squat, you maybe need to raise your fifth wheel a bolt-hole or two (2003 trucks were generally shorter than newer models).

[Tireman9]

Craig, If you decide to go that route you will need larger size and or higher Load range as LT tires are not rated for same load as ST in same size & Load Range.

[CraigBean7672]

I don't plan to run much heavier than this weight and I'm thinking of moving some of the trailer cargo weight to the truck since it has more unused capacity.

I think going to LRD will provide enough since the heaviest tire was 2350. Going to LRE I'd probably have to change to a six bolt hub and new wheels. Tireman already explained to me it will be better to run a D at the right load rating then to run an E underinflated.

Dave, I will review your suggestion about raising the nose. I'll need to understand how to tell if a trailer is level or if it is nose high/low beyond just eyeballing it. It looks level now and the front wheels of the truck stayed the same hitched vs. unhitched according to the scales and it does not feel light when driving it. Certainly if raising the nose will redistribute the weight off the front trailer axle to the rear then that would be an incentive to run it nose high...I think but not sure. Let's say it's level now but running it two inches high helps the balance then that would be the way to go, right? If so, then I could do it with airbags or just a hitch bracken, perhaps.

I appreciate you guys weighing in on this, I'm really just a rookie at this but common sense will prevail and I'm looking forward to that 'ah-ha' moment when it is all sorted. Hopefully it will not be too costly.

Best regards,
Craig

[rockfordroo]

Originally Posted by emm-dee

Your real problem is running C-load China bomb tires. That brand has a reputation for failing. You can replace them right now or wait until they explode, possibly causing a lot more damage.

I'll defer to people with more fiver experience to answer the rest because with mine we just move the horses around for balance.

emm-dee:

The OP has Constancy brand tires. I would like to know where you are getting your information related to "reputation for failing." I'm not saying none have ever failed, but I've been on this forum for over 4 years and I have yet to see anyone posting about a failed Constancy tire. In fact, I'd never even heard of the brand until I bought my Mini Lite last year and it came with them.

And if the OP had blown the tire that's running 200 lbs overweight, that certainly wouldn't have been the tires fault. In fact, it sounds like the tire's been doing pretty darn well, so far anyway.

I agree with the poster complaining about all the "china bomb" postings on this forum. We hear all about the failures, but almost never hear about the circumstances. If the OP had had a failure without having weighed his fiver, all we'd be hearing is about his lousy china bombs, nothing about running them overloaded.

And as I've posted before, we have no clue if our tires were run at 70+ mph by the transporter from however far away our dealers are from Indiana. The tires could (and probably were) abused before you ever got them.

[emm-dee]

Originally Posted by rockfordroo

emm-dee:

The OP has Constancy brand tires. I would like to know where you are getting your information related to "reputation for failing." I'm not saying none have ever failed, but I've been on this forum for over 4 years and I have yet to see anyone posting about a failed Constancy tire. In fact, I'd never even heard of the brand until I bought my Mini Lite last year and it came with them.

And if the OP had blown the tire that's running 200 lbs overweight, that certainly wouldn't have been the tires fault. In fact, it sounds like the tire's been doing pretty darn well, so far anyway.

I agree with the poster complaining about all the "china bomb" postings on this forum. We hear all about the failures, but almost never hear about the circumstances. If the OP had had a failure without having weighed his fiver, all we'd be hearing is about his lousy china bombs, nothing about running them overloaded.

And as I've posted before, we have no clue if our tires were run at 70+ mph by the transporter from however far away our dealers are from Indiana. The tires could (and probably were) abused before you ever got them.

I bought a small horse trailer a two years ago because we needed one for
short and quick trips where I didn't want to load up the 40 foot gooseneck LQ trailer. It had Constancy. Since the trailer usually sat parked for 3-5 weeks at a time I guarantee you it had a tire pressure check before every use. Surprisingly it actually never needed air added. Within six months two of those tires exploded. Less than 1,000 miles.

Fortunately I had a good dealer who replaced them at no charge. He told me he assumes that he will have to replace at least half the Constancy or Tow Max tires that come on the new units he sells. He replaces them with Maxxis since according to him he cannot get any warranty support for tires from his distributers.

I think we can all agree that Tireman9 is about the most knowledgeable members here when discussing tires. Here is what he said last year in a post regarding Constancy failures:

"A tire that is made by a company that has no stores, is in all probability just a "container baby".
To me, as a tire engineer, "container babies" are just round & black tire like things that are designed with low cost as the primary goal with the only other objective to be maybe able to pass the minimum safety requirements published by DOT.
BUT in reality it is well known that DOT is very unlikely to ever test any "container baby" because volumes are so low as to avoid gaining the attention of the regulators even is there are failure rates that are 50 times higher than seen on tires made by established tire companies that are willing to put their company name on the tire."

[rockfordroo]

Originally Posted by emm-dee

I bought a small horse trailer a two years ago because we needed one for
short and quick trips where I didn't want to load up the 40 foot gooseneck LQ trailer. It had Constancy. Since the trailer usually sat parked for 3-5 weeks at a time I guarantee you it had a tire pressure check before every use. Surprisingly it actually never needed air added. Within six months two of those tires exploded. Less than 1,000 miles.

Fortunately I had a good dealer who replaced them at no charge. He told me he assumes that he will have to replace at least half the Constancy or Tow Max tires that come on the new units he sells. He replaces them with Maxxis since according to him he cannot get any warranty support for tires from his distributers.

I think we can all agree that Tireman9 is about the most knowledgeable members here when discussing tires. Here is what he said last year in a post regarding Constancy failures:

"A tire that is made by a company that has no stores, is in all probability just a "container baby".
To me, as a tire engineer, "container babies" are just round & black tire like things that are designed with low cost as the primary goal with the only other objective to be maybe able to pass the minimum safety requirements published by DOT.
BUT in reality it is well known that DOT is very unlikely to ever test any "container baby" because volumes are so low as to avoid gaining the attention of the regulators even is there are failure rates that are 50 times higher than seen on tires made by established tire companies that are willing to put their company name on the tire."

OK, so we have your single experience, a dealers "assumption" (and we all trust our dealers, right?) and Tireman's "general statement" about tires with no stores. That does not equate to a "reputation for failing" in my mind.

Points out one the problems with these forums; people making these sweeping statements with little or no factual data to back them up.

But you're right about one thing, they ARE made in China:
SHANDONG LONGYUE RUBBER CO., LTD 7B HEZE CITY SHANDONG CHINA

[325BH]

If your front axle is carrying significantly more weight than the rear, you are either not level (nose low) or the front axle springs/torsion-bars are stiffer than the rear. Loading of coach has no affect on this scenario.


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[RollingDownTheHighway]

those portable scales are tricky, They have to be level and on flat clean surface. I seen one sit on a little bump on the group that no one noticed when setting them up and it threw the weights off. I would go to a CAT scale and compare numbers.

[325BH]

Originally Posted by bagged123

those portable scales are tricky, They have to be level and on flat clean surface. I seen one sit on a little bump on the group that no one noticed when setting them up and it threw the weights off. I would go to a CAT scale and compare numbers.

Very good point.



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[CraigBean7672]

I'm really glad you and Dave brought this up because it hadn't even entered my mind. I am planning to do some measurements to check if it is riding level but haven't been able to get to it yet. I will need to hitch up and drive to level ground.

I think I can use the level gauge I added so I'd know when the refer is level but if the the fridge is not level to the frame that could be off. I can also put a level on the bottom of the frame rail to see what it indicates, that seems like a good spot to measure.

I went to get new Maxxis tires this week...
I could not believe it, the date stamp on the tire was 1111, so Nov 2011.
I previously mentioned I was interested in fresh tires, maybe he thought I wouldn't look and I'd bet that most people don't know nor do they check.

I since called America's Tire Store and they ordered a set that will be here in a few days, he mentioned he can 'request' fresh tires but the guy pulling them in the warehouse doesn't always do that. He does have the option to send them back if the date code is stale.

[CraigBean7672]

Yep, definite re-weigh at CAT scale in near future.