Opening a can of worms

[dallasrules]

Originally Posted by KyDan

"In the last twenty years diesel was cheaper than gas. Likely not forever."
What???
My guess is diesel is not going below regular gas again....

Diesel was 10 cents per gallon cheaper than gas here in Virginia yesterday.

[moose074]

Diesel is about 30 cents higher except where all the sand trucks and oil field company trucks stop. It $1.30 to $1.50 higher demand is super high and drivers aren’t paying companies are.

[CHICKDOE]

Originally Posted by NMWildcat

Funny, bizarre thing we noticed the last few weeks. We travel to Tucson/Phoenix area a LOT (kids and grandkids).
Fuel in AZ lately is much more than in NM. In the Tempe area we noticed several stations where diesel was cheaper than the lowest octane gas. Just a few cents, but cheaper.
Odd, very odd. I should have taken pictures.....

we live up in the mountains of arizona. up here diesel is more expensive than the most expensive grade of gas. we went down to the phoenix area and i noticed that down there diesel was less expensive that all grades of gas. and the phoenix diesel was about $.10/gal more than what we were used to paying. i asked our friends why the differences and they aid the phoenix area is having to comply with air quality rules similar to those in california, but the rural areas of arizona did not have to comply with them. i was also surprised to learn that in the phoenix area they have to take their vehicles in for annual smog inspections (just like california) while the rural areas of arizona (where we live) do not.

[Joe_GA]

Check this out!


Hydrogen engine

[BigH]

Originally Posted by dallasrules

So, my shade tree mechanic works on my diesel all the time and prefers the diesels. ...

All the time!!...I don't want anything that has to be worked on 'all the time'.

[Bhrava]

Originally Posted by tomkatb

Mine costs $55 a year more than a gas truck in maintenance.

The Ram until I think 2018 had a lifetime warranty on the motor.

Hd truck parts cost more than half tons.

DEF use is minimal not towing. About 1.5 cents per mile towing

No comparison on towing difference. Hands down diesel.

Exhaust brake is great on hills. Really easy.

Fill ups while towing are easy. Long trailers are scary at service stations. Many are simply impossible.

Resale on used diesels is generally higher. When I researched in 2015 you pretty much got your money back. Check out car value guides.

Their mileage is likely 30% better maybe more towing. I get over twenty empty. 11 towing 14,000 pounds. We typically go almost 300 miles between fill ups.

In the last twenty years diesel was cheaper than gas. Likely not forever.

If you tow a lot then diesel. Ocassional towing, not so much.

Pretty much sums it up.


One other factor, passing power. No gas engine can match the low down torque of a Diesel and when you need to get up and get going as in merging into the left lane to get around a slower one in the right lane, you will fully appreciate that extra torque.



Basically the one and only advantage gas has over Diesel is maintenance costs.



I am on my last leg of a 3K mile cruise and a gas F350 with the new 7.3 would have been adequate, but many a time I would have been stuck in the right lane because I would not have the power to get up to speed quick enough like I do with the 6.7 in my F-450. The F-450 has 4.30 gears, the same a F-350 7.3 would have in SRW. Not sure if the DRW would also be 4.30 or 4.10, but in any case, its the closest apples to apples you can get between the two.

[redvalk]

Originally Posted by dallasrules

So, my shade tree mechanic works on my diesel all the time and prefers the diesels. It may cost more to fill up, but my 1 ton pickup gets around 22 mpg empty and around 14 mpg pulling my 15K 5th wheel. It tows it up any mountain I have been on with ease and I can even increase my speed going uphill. But, it is your last sentence above that shows the real difference. You have a truck with 107k miles and are already thinking about replacing it soon. My 2006 diesel has 117k and I feel it is barely broken in. With proper maintenance I plan to see over 300k out of it. It's a no Brainer for me. I wouldn't trade my diesel for 5 gasers.

This post really nails all the reasons for me. Years ago I had a couple of F150s....then moved to an F250 gas.......and when that wouldn't pull our 4 horse trailer with live in quarters (and loaded with 4 horses in it) when we stopped on a hill, we went to a diesel (F450 at first) and have never looked back. Now have an F350. Power, mileage like quoted above....engine braking, pulling up hills NO MATTER THE LOAD with ease.....engine lasts "forever"......etc. Yes, here in Alabama, Diesel is considerably higher than gas (like 75 cents to as much as a dollar more a gallon at times), but for all the advantages, I want the diesel engine. And as I've said before, I pull ALL SORTS of things....bull dozers, back hoes, horse trailers, big JD tractors....and.....an occasional 36 and a half long 10,000 pound travel trailer

If I just pulled a small travel trailer, gas might work for me. And a smaller truck might do then too. But then I'd need all the "stuff" I don't need with a 1 ton dually diesel....like sway bars, weight distribution, etc. No need for any of that with a big "old" diesel dually 1 ton....................

What ever works for you,

[RamManMN]

I think a lot of you are basing your opinions on older diesels. Read up on DPF (diesel particulate filters) and regeneration. Also read up on the negatives associated with current generation diesels when doing a lot of short trips. Dont forget that if you are full timing, unless you have someone following in another vehical, your truck may be your only transportation. So dont forget all the other non-towing driving you will need to do.

Doing your own maintenance? I don't qnd never will. You would not want to ride in any vehical I worked on

Diesel 3/4 tons. Don't buy a Ram. I love my Ram 2500 but while my gas truck has a payload of 2938, an identical truck with the Cummins is only 2108...a complete waste of money. When it comes down to it, if you are towing heavy enough to benefit from a diesel, you may as well just get a 3500.

[jlynn721]

Originally Posted by Russellvh

I want to ask a question. I know that there are some strong opinions and each driver will know she or he is the right answer but here goes. Diesel or gas pickup to tow a 5th wheel. First of all let’s assume the truck can haul the RV, exceeds all weight and size restrictions and can perform safely on the road. Either one is well maintained and will not be driven over 150,000 miles. The owner is a full time RV’r.

Why buy diesel?
They cost more to buy. Cost more to repair. Cost more to fill up. Have the added cost of DEF fluid. Less likely repairable on the side of the road by a shade tree mechanic.

My gas truck is just over 107,000 miles, I’m starting to plan on replacing at the end of this year and will, probably, buy a late model used truck. I really would appreciate input.

Everything being equal, If you can afford a diesel truck and diesel fuel, go diesel. If you can’t, go gas.

[Rancher Rob]

1. Not as big a deal in a truck as compared to in a boat but diesel doesn’t explode and is hard to start on fire compared to gasoline.

2. Gas engines just tend to quit or die for random reasons. Diesels are more reliable and when something goes wrong, you usually have lots of advance notice (change in sounds or feeling) that an injector or something is not working right. Though of course, a fuel pump or something else can go out in either.

3. Gas goes “off” after a short amount of time so if you aren’t using the vehicle for a while, say 6 months or more, you have to worry about that and maybe add preservative to the fuel and worry about varnish in the carb (on older engines).
Diesel lasts for years. I’ve run 15 year old diesel in my J.Deere and Dynquest with no problems. Though admittedly I added preservative to my farm diesel tank when I last refilled it in 2008. Though DEF also goes off like gas so negates some of this benefit on newer engines.

Bonus - If your desperate, you can always throw some vegetable oil or used motor oil or something in your semi full diesel tank to stretch the fuel a little. I don’t recommend it except as a last resort, but it’ll work and get you a few more miles down the road. Just carry extra fuel filters if your going to use old french fryer oil. Can’t add much of anything to a gasoline fuel supply without buggering the enginge.

[Rancher Rob]

Oh, but a down side to diesel up here in WA is it starts to gel when it gets really cold like 20 degrees or below but I’ve only had minor problems when parked up for many hours in the mountains at night during the winter time. There are additives for those times.

[Shoemakers8280]

Started out in a gas rig with first 5er and after a year of semi-frequent towing, realized the transmission wouldn't last...
Switched to a 2500HD Silverado with an Allison tranny and never looked back...
on my 3rd 5er and never a problem with my diesel... Sure, depending on where you live, the cost of fuel may be a bit higher, but it's so very worth it to have the hauling power and stability of the diesel puller...
blessings,
Bill Shoemaker
USN Retired
Homestead: North Atlanta

[desuhu]

Originally Posted by KyDan

"In the last twenty years diesel was cheaper than gas. Likely not forever."
What???
My guess is diesel is not going below regular gas again....

Diesel was cheaper than gas until Oct. of 2003, right after we bought our 2003 Duramax/Diesel truck. We still have her by the way, only 154,000 miles on it and still going strong.

[moose074]

If any of my diesel trucks got 14 towing I would have never considered gas. 2011 2500 6.7 HO 10 pulling TT ( I did drive 70-75) 2016 f 350 6.7 11 pulling the TT 9.8 pulling Wildcat 5th 2018 Ram 3500 DWD 6.7 10 pulling Wildcat 2021 Ram DWD 6.7 HO 10 mph 2022 Chevy unsure 8.5 in really bad wind

[J Man]

Originally Posted by Russellvh

I want to ask a question. I know that there are some strong opinions and each driver will know she or he is the right answer but here goes. Diesel or gas pickup to tow a 5th wheel. First of all let’s assume the truck can haul the RV, exceeds all weight and size restrictions and can perform safely on the road. Either one is well maintained and will not be driven over 150,000 miles. The owner is a full time RV’r.

Why buy diesel?
They cost more to buy. Cost more to repair. Cost more to fill up. Have the added cost of DEF fluid. Less likely repairable on the side of the road by a shade tree mechanic.

My gas truck is just over 107,000 miles, I’m starting to plan on replacing at the end of this year and will, probably, buy a late model used truck. I really would appreciate input.

Diesels run at a lower RPM and make their torque in a tighter range. This translates to a smoother, more quiet drive, and the power is there when you want it. The better fuel economy makes up for some of the extra costs. However diesels can be more expensive to work on, DEF is annoying, the entire regen system is annoying, and personally I detest oily stinking diesel fuel. Lol

Gasoline will run at a wider, faster RPM spread and might have to drop gears, race the motor, or otherwise "hunt" for power when you need it. Overall I think they are a cheaper vehicle but heavy towing is really asking a lot of a gasoline motor, no matter how big it is, that's just my opinion.

Personally, if I could pick either, I'd take the diesel for its smooth power and especially the engine brake. Those are amazing. And I think most of the past annoying parts of running diesels (winter starting, fuel availability, slow to build speed, to name some examples) have been addressed.

[2witzmans]

Gas gas gas!

[rjshiflet]

Originally Posted by tomkatb

Resale on used diesels is generally higher. When I researched in 2015 you pretty much got your money back. Check out car value guides.

We had a Ford F-350 DRW that we drove for five years (2017 model) and towed our fifth wheel. We put 40,000 miles on it and sold it to a Ford dealer for $6,000 more than we paid for it new. Then we saw it advertised online at the dealership for $5,000 more than they paid us for it.

Granted this was a year ago when all vehicles were bringing a premium - but we felt like that was absolutely unheard of.

[moose074]

Originally Posted by rjshiflet

We had a Ford F-350 DRW that we drove for five years (2017 model) and towed our fifth wheel. We put 40,000 miles on it and sold it to a Ford dealer for $6,000 more than we paid for it new. Then we saw it advertised online at the dealership for $5,000 more than they paid us for it.

Granted this was a year ago when all vehicles were bringing a premium - but we felt like that was absolutely unheard of.

It’s a crazy market on the verge of maybe leveling out. I traded my diesel in last June mostly due to reading how bad emissions in diesel was. I had one really long regen got me panicked. Bought a used gas for 10k more than was paid new. It was the only gas 3/4 on any reputable lot. As I stated in earlier post the gas did good, but the scale said I was 480 over gross on my last trl but it was a lemon. Upgraded to a 1400 pound heavier trl. So I would have been basically 1900 over gross weight. Not a big deal but then wife and daughter wanted northern Rockies. I won’t lie I would be heavier than normal on that trip. Going through those hills with a gas motor working extra hard at 80k and first 50k miles not sure how it was treated. It wasn’t a warm fuzzy feeling. Now I’m paying new price on used 22 they still paid a fair price on the gasser , but definitely took big hit on it they had advertised at 44 ( new price) and sold it quickly.

[Mikeytheb]

Originally Posted by dallasrules

My 2006 diesel has 117k and I feel it is barely broken in. With proper maintenance I plan to see over 300k out of it. It's a no Brainer for me. I wouldn't trade my diesel for 5 gasers.

I recently took my truck to dealer for a recall. The shuttle driver told me on the way home they have diesels with 500,000-700,000 miles on them coming in all the time for oil and filter changes.

[cruisinhwy66]

To anyone thinking about buying a new truck w/gas engine in a 3/4T truck to tow their fifth wheel, I have discovered several YouTube videos with great information about Ford's new 7.3 ltr V8 and GM's new 6.6 ltr V8 in a 3/4T HD truck, (real world testing) when pulling a 13800 lb 5th wheel in the Colorado mountains.

Example, "AutoMotive inquiries" & others.

Well worth viewing if you're considering a gas engine instead of diesel and your RV's under 15000 lbs. These engines were not available when I bought our 2020 diesel.

cruisinhwy66