Payload Payload Payload

[JColeman]

BigH, no one said to exceed the GAWR. You apparently seem to read more into the conversation than other people have so you go head do what you feel is right and we'll keep doing what we feel is right for us. Like I said, this why I don't post much because you always have someone that likes to slam other people and think they know more than everyone else no matter what. Good day and happy camping!!!!!!!

[walaby]

JColeman.. I think you said on page 3 that you exceed GAWR by "a couple of hundred pounds".


I'll not debate whether I agree or disagree.



Mike

[AlaskaErik]

Originally Posted by aircommuter

Interesting how the sticker on post 35 only shows a tire pressure of 35 lbs. Yet the others show the rears at 80 which is max for those tires but 35 is not the max for the other truck.
The message here is that tires shown on this sticker is part of the equation. This sticker is as equipped. Different limiting factors apply in different situations. My truck doesn’t have a sticker like that as they were added as a total CYA for manufacturers.
Another note on the post about the max axle weight for big rigs also has wheelbase number attached to the weight for the bridge formula in CA and possibly other states. So if the wheelbase is shorter than a given number then those capacities are reduced. Sorry this isn’t for most people just a correction for the post.

Anything with a tire pressure in the 30s is going to be a half ton or smaller.

[corn18]

Originally Posted by JColeman

So I couldn't help but interject some additional information on this subject. First I have a 2008 Dodge Ram 2500 SWS CTD LB. I bought it used in 2011 when my wife and had a 2009 30' bumper pull Flagstaff we loved and pulled with a Nissan Titan but realized after a few years it wasn't cutting the mustard so we bought the Dodge diesel. In 2015 we purchased a 37' 5th wheel toy hauler. I also installed a auxiliary 60 gal fuel cell in the front of the long bed so I have approx. 95 gal on board when towing. We have traveled all over the country with this setup and NEVER had any issues towing. The only issues I have had is the the dreaded clogged DPF filter and that's it. I weighed the setup several years back and found no concerns with my approx 12000 lb setup even though the pin weight was only a few hundred pounds over the rated GAWR and will say that the truck has much more towing capacity than Dodge reports. I keep my maintenance done every year. My friends dually Dodge only has a higher rating because of having two additional tires in the rear. He had the same truck as I several years back but when he got a much larger toy hauler he decided to go to the dually to add more stability to his setup. All these discussions don't address the weight distribution of the trailer and truck and the difference between the dually and SWD vehicles. Just my two cents worth!

Originally Posted by JColeman

BigH, no one said to exceed the GAWR. You apparently seem to read more into the conversation than other people have so you go head do what you feel is right and we'll keep doing what we feel is right for us. Like I said, this why I don't post much because you always have someone that likes to slam other people and think they know more than everyone else no matter what. Good day and happy camping!!!!!!!

Originally Posted by walaby

JColeman.. I think you said on page 3 that you exceed GAWR by "a couple of hundred pounds".


I'll not debate whether I agree or disagree.



Mike

Yup, highlighted.

[RookieRV]

Honestly, I was a little hacked off that I was not informed by the salesman (experienced) about payload, only towing capacity. He was told my plans for a 5er. My bad! He made the sale...My bad again. I really liked the 2500. Maybe because of that is why I didn't even consider a 3500. I decided on the Ford because of the payload improvement, comfort and features, and the dealership is only about 5 minutes from my home. The Ram dealer was 40 minutes away. I lost a few thousands of dollars on the change but I am satisfied...and ready for camping!

[aircommuter]

Originally Posted by AlaskaErik

Anything with a tire pressure in the 30s is going to be a half ton or smaller.

I think we all know that. The point is that is very low even for a half ton probably less than the tires max pressure, where the other stickers do show the max pressure. I guess a full explanation is needed for some.

[aircommuter]

Originally Posted by BigH

Maybe you don't post much because your endorsement about going above GAWR by 'a few hundred pounds' isn't well received. What number is too high?

Fact: Both Chevy and Ford have used different axles for 3/4 ton and 1 ton srw in SOME configurations up until 2019 and both have used different frame thicknesses for different GVWR (I don't have direct related facts on Ram).

What do you want people to do? Pick any number over GAWR that you want?
Doing what you want is one thing endorsing something so others will follow is ridiculous and reckless.

First of all your lack of description (underlined) is absolutely false for GM and Ford when talking about 3/4 to 1 ton srw. Not all configurations use the same axle...and that is a fact.

Right, so let me get this straight...because of what a manufacturer might do in the coming years means its ok to try and guess what they might do and pick a number out of a hat. Really?


What on earth is to be gained by telling folks its ok to go above GAWR? Anyone?

Absurd and reckless advice gentlemen...

If the axle is an 11.5 AAM then it is the same on both trucks for Chevrolet, Dodges. Ford uses more possible axles. One must compare these things, which is obvious but not to all. The axles are rated as an assembly on light trucks, this includes springs. The bearings, brakes, ring and pinion are often the same part numbers with 3/4 and 1t. Again for some people things need to be verified. This is also a fact. Having been in the automotive and truck business for 50 plus years I have seen this on a daily basis. After all that the R stands for rating.
What is the floor load rating in your house? Do you ever exceed it?
Maybe you need a sticker at your front door.

[corn18]

Just ran my new to me 2015 Chevy Silverado 2500HD double cab, work truck, 4x4, 6.0 gas. Full tank of gas, no humans on board, no gear in the truck. Brochure CCC is 2910 lbs. Yellow sticker on B pillar is 2,735. Per CAT scale chit, it is 2,840. GVWR is 9,500.

If I had the exact same truck with the diesel, the GVWR would be 10,000 lbs. Wonder if there is any difference in the truck itself or they just give you the extra 500 lbs to make up for the added weight of the oil burner.

Either way, the trailer we are looking at has a GVWR of 6,690 lbs, so we should be ok

[hazmat456]

For many years the ford f250 and f350 configured the same would have the same payload, GVWR. The frames are exactly the same, same dimensions across the superduty line, including the f450. Where the difference comes in are the options in each line. Payload and tow ratings are not subjective they are tested and repeatable. It is more than how much weight can I apply before something breaks. The only real frame difference is in length and weather it is a chassis or pickup.

[aircommuter]

Tested then rated with a CYA margin for the manufacturer. Numerous parts fail on many vehicles every year and always have, so the engineers are not perfect or the manufacturer or their suppliers are cheating. This is why warranties are limited. In the business we called it factory perfect! It failed right?

[corn18]

Originally Posted by aircommuter

Tested then rated with a CYA margin for the manufacturer. Numerous parts fail on many vehicles every year and always have, so the engineers are not perfect or the manufacturer or their suppliers are cheating. This is why warranties are limited. In the business we called it factory perfect! It failed right?

Reliability engineering is a very complex engineering discipline. We are always making trades for affordability vs. reliability. Sometimes it's a win / win, sometimes we know it will fail but are ok with the customer satisfaction issues that might result. Safety is never a trade space.

[aircommuter]

Originally Posted by corn18

Just ran my new to me 2015 Chevy Silverado 2500HD double cab, work truck, 4x4, 6.0 gas. Full tank of gas, no humans on board, no gear in the truck. Brochure CCC is 2910 lbs. Yellow sticker on B pillar is 2,735. Per CAT scale chit, it is 2,840. GVWR is 9,500.

If I had the exact same truck with the diesel, the GVWR would be 10,000 lbs. Wonder if there is any difference in the truck itself or they just give you the extra 500 lbs to make up for the added weight of the oil burner.

Either way, the trailer we are looking at has a GVWR of 6,690 lbs, so we should be ok

First those weights seem like axle only. But anyway I would say the front springs and shocks may be the only difference without looking them up. No worries bigH will be along with all the pertinent info and metal thickness to the micron.

[aircommuter]

Originally Posted by corn18

Reliability engineering is a very complex engineering discipline. We are always making trades for affordability vs. reliability. Sometimes it's a win / win, sometimes we know it will fail but are ok with the customer satisfaction issues that might result. Safety is never a trade space.

So no safety items have ever failed and that’s why there have never been any class action lawsuits or government intervention in the automotive industry.

[corn18]

Originally Posted by aircommuter

So no safety items have ever failed and that’s why there have never been any class action lawsuits or government intervention in the automotive industry.

Safety items do fail, but they are not designed to fail. If you want 100% safety, you will never get it. Stupid humans are the hardest to engineer out of a system.

[corn18]

Originally Posted by aircommuter

First those weights seem like axle only. But anyway I would say the front springs and shocks may be the only difference without looking them up. No worries bigH will be along with all the pertinent info and metal thickness to the micron.

Nope, that is CCC from 3 different sources. The only truth data is the CAT scale CCC which was derived by taking my GVWR of 9,500 lbs and subtracting my CAT scale weight of 6,660 lbs = 2,840 lbs CCC.

[aircommuter]

Originally Posted by corn18

Safety items do fail, but they are not designed to fail. If you want 100% safety, you will never get it. Stupid humans are the hardest to engineer out of a system.

They never fail due to engineering errors however.

[corn18]

Originally Posted by aircommuter

They never fail due to engineering errors however.

Depends how you define an error. Design the fillet on a compressor blade wrong and you get to see parts flying out of an engine casing at just under the speed of sound. Most designs are written in blood, at least in the aerospace industry where I work.

[BigH]

Originally Posted by aircommuter

The sarcasm is so informative, nothing but the best information from the most knowledgeable people.
Not only are the axles the same but often times next year the very same factory engineers will increase that RATING for competitive reasons.

Originally Posted by aircommuter

If the axle is an 11.5 AAMthen it is the same on both trucks for Chevrolet, Dodges. Ford uses more possible axles. One must compare these things, which is obvious but not to all. The axles are rated as an assembly on light trucks, this includes springs. The bearings, brakes, ring and pinion are often the same part numbers with 3/4 and 1t. Again for some people things need to be verified. This is also a fact. Having been in the automotive and truck business for 50 plus years I have seen this on a daily basis. After all that the R stands for rating.
What is the floor load rating in your house? Do you ever exceed it?
Maybe you need a sticker at your front door.

^^^Comparing a floor load on a house to being over GAWR on a tow vehicle...this is what you have to say after endorsing being over GAWR?

The door sticker on my truck says "The combined weight of occupants and cargo should never exceed XXXX" ...You cannot go over the GAWR on my truck without exceeding that XXXX number. Is that number an R as in rating? Ridiculous sir...

I asked a question and you replied with the quote above...please share all those years and experience and try answering this one more time: What on earth is to be gained by telling folks its ok to go above GAWR?

[Boomerweps]

Originally Posted by corn18

Nope, that is CCC from 3 different sources. The only truth data is the CAT scale CCC which was derived by taking my GVWR of 9,500 lbs and subtracting my CAT scale weight of 6,660 lbs = 2,840 lbs CCC.

Corn, that's not fair using measured facts and data.
Like Uncle Joe says, "We prefer truth to facts!"

[hazmat456]

Originally Posted by corn18

Just ran my new to me 2015 Chevy Silverado 2500HD double cab, work truck, 4x4, 6.0 gas. Full tank of gas, no humans on board, no gear in the truck. Brochure CCC is 2910 lbs. Yellow sticker on B pillar is 2,735. Per CAT scale chit, it is 2,840. GVWR is 9,500.

If I had the exact same truck with the diesel, the GVWR would be 10,000 lbs. Wonder if there is any difference in the truck itself or they just give you the extra 500 lbs to make up for the added weight of the oil burner.

Either way, the trailer we are looking at has a GVWR of 6,690 lbs, so we should be ok

So that is where the 150lbs is for the driver? Seems like either someone errored in their math skills or the new tires weigh 45 lbs more than the stock ones. Or there is a logging chain in the bed.

The diesel will have heavier front springs to make the higher GVWR. Prolly 1000lb heavier.