Payload Payload Payload

[aircommuter]

Originally Posted by BigH

^^^Comparing a floor load on a house to being over GAWR on a tow vehicle...this is what you have to say after endorsing being over GAWR?

The door sticker on my truck says "The combined weight of occupants and cargo should never exceed XXXX" ...You cannot go over the GAWR on my truck without exceeding that XXXX number. Is that number an R as in rating? Ridiculous sir...

I asked a question and you replied with the quote above...please share all those years and experience and try answering this one more time: What on earth is to be gained by telling folks its ok to go above GAWR?

Who said there would be gain? If the R isn’t a rating then what is it?
You don’t think a floor load is important? Your choice. I think you are caught up in your post. I am sure you exceed that floor rating but it suits your need. Just because there is no sticker or you don’t know or care. You are just upset because I showed that you exceed a rating of your choice and it’s okay, but the poster who exceeded his axle RATING by 200lbs is so wrong and a violator in your view.

[BigH]

Originally Posted by corn18

Just ran my new to me 2015 Chevy Silverado 2500HD double cab, work truck, 4x4, 6.0 gas. Full tank of gas, no humans on board, no gear in the truck. Brochure CCC is 2910 lbs. Yellow sticker on B pillar is 2,735. Per CAT scale chit, it is 2,840. GVWR is 9,500.

If I had the exact same truck with the diesel, the GVWR would be 10,000 lbs. Wonder if there is any difference in the truck itself or they just give you the extra 500 lbs to make up for the added weight of the oil burner.

Either way, the trailer we are looking at has a GVWR of 6,690 lbs, so we should be ok

Originally Posted by aircommuter

First those weights seem like axle only. But anyway I would say the front springs and shocks may be the only difference without looking them up. No worries bigH will be along with all the pertinent info and metal thickness to the micron.

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q...6&&FORM=VRDGAR

[Boomerweps]

Originally Posted by hazmat456

So that is where the 150lbs is for the driver? Seems like either someone errored in their math skills or the new tires weigh 45 lbs more than the stock ones. Or there is a logging chain in the bed.

Tow ratings usually include the driver at 150#.
Cargo Capacity stickers state one way or another that occupants are part of that Cargo Capacity. See my 2019 F150 sticker picture.

[BigH]

Originally Posted by aircommuter

Who said there would be gain? If the R isn’t a rating then what is it?
You don’t think a floor load is important? Your choice. I think you are caught up in your post. I am sure you exceed that floor rating but it suits your need. Just because there is no sticker or you don’t know or care. You are just upset because I showed that you exceed a rating of your choice and it’s okay, but the poster who exceeded his axle RATING by 200lbs is so wrong and a violator in your view.

LOL What did I exceed? I'm not upset and you didn't show me anything...

Actually the person said he exceeded his GAWR by a few hundred pounds and you are giving an endorsement for doing so. I don't think that is ethical, wise or prudent.

I want to talk about trucks not some diversionary comparison with floors you need to use to justify overloading a vehicle's GAWR.

[aircommuter]

Originally Posted by corn18

Depends how you define an error. Design the fillet on a compressor blade wrong and you get to see parts flying out of an engine casing at just under the speed of sound. Most designs are written in blood, at least in the aerospace industry where I work.

As a pilot I realize the critical thinking. However engineering failures have occurred in that industry as we all know. I read every NTSB report on aviation and have for over 30 years. I know about DC-10 tail engine failure when fan blades cut hydraulic lines and when cycling the cabin pressure began counting instead of just hours (Aloha) to mention just a few. I read the ADs both one time and recurring. Yes the FAR various parts.
I owned a second business as a general engineering company and flew my personal aircraft back and forth at least 10 times a week.
Automotive engineering is not given that level of credence.

[corn18]

Originally Posted by aircommuter

Automotive engineering is not given that level of credence.

Well that's disappointing. Never worked in that industry so I wouldn't know. I flew fighters and now I make weapons. Lots of safety engineering in those products.

[corn18]

Originally Posted by BigH

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q...6&&FORM=VRDGAR

Good stuff! I learned something today. The gussets on the pumpkin and helper springs gets you 1,200 lbs of GVWR.

[emm-dee]

Originally Posted by Boomerweps

Tow ratings usually include the driver at 150#.
Cargo Capacity stickers state one way or another that occupants are part of that Cargo Capacity. See my 2019 F150 sticker picture.

Are you saying the driver is not an occupant?

I don’t understand why some are trying to make this so complicated. All we need to know is how much weight can be added before exceeding a certain number. The ONLY way to know this number is to get on a cat scale.

It is totally irrelevant what is added to the base, empty vehicle to attain maximum weight. If the number is, ie, 2,000 pounds then you can put 200 pounds of fuel on board then add nine 200 pound midgets (as long as one is the driver) and you have met your 2,000 pound number.

Just be glad you don’t have to figure maximum weight for an airplane since it can be up to at least 13 different numbers depending on a lot of different yet similar factors.

[filthy-Beast]

Originally Posted by aircommuter

What is the floor load rating in your house? Do you ever exceed it?
Maybe you need a sticker at your front door.

No sticker, but you better believe I checked it before putting in a 200 gal saltwater fish tank.

[filthy-Beast]

Originally Posted by emm-dee

Are you saying the driver is not an occupant?

I don’t understand why some are trying to make this so complicated. All we need to know is how much weight can be added before exceeding a certain number. The ONLY way to know this number is to get on a cat scale.

It is totally irrelevant what is added to the base, empty vehicle to attain maximum weight. If the number is, ie, 2,000 pounds then you can put 200 pounds of fuel on board then add nine 200 pound midgets (as long as one is the driver) and you have met your 2,000 pound number.

Just be glad you don’t have to figure maximum weight for an airplane since it can be up to at least 13 different numbers depending on a lot of different yet similar factors.

Hey on this test drive were going go 30 miles to swing by a CAT scale.



Oh wait, I can just use the door sticker and understand what the number represents while comparing different vehicles when shopping.

[emm-dee]

Originally Posted by filthy-Beast

Hey on this test drive were going go 30 miles to swing by a CAT scale.



Oh wait, I can just use the door sticker and understand what the number represents while comparing different vehicles when shopping.

Comparisons, yes. That’s about all that door sticker is good for. My 1500 Ram found an extra 1100 pounds when weighed ( full fuel, me sitting in the drivers seat). Same configuration, Ram 2500 CTD last year showed an extra 1200 pounds. Daughters 3500 Ram went from 5600 sticker to 5860 actual. All with full fuel and a driver.

I’ve never heard of anyone going to a CAT scale and getting a reading that matched the sticker.

[aircommuter]

Originally Posted by filthy-Beast

No sticker, but you better believe I checked it before putting in a 200 gal saltwater fish tank.

Most people exceed their floor rating and never check it when then buy a house, but a truck, wow it is the dreaded sticker. FWIW standard floor load rating is 40psf which works out to about 300lb point load so two people standing close together could easily exceed the rating. I built all my own houses, three without subs and the last one with 2 subs l, sheet rock (18’ ceilings) and stucco exterior walls 45’ high. Just too old for that.

[Boomerweps]

Originally Posted by emm-dee

Are you saying the driver is not an occupant

Nope. All occupants, including driver, are part of the cargo carrying capacity. Mere stating that Towing capacity allows for a 150# person at the start of my post.

As most understand, cargo capacity rating affects towing ability but is totally separate from tow ratings.

[AlaskaErik]

Originally Posted by Boomerweps

Nope. All occupants, including driver, are part of the cargo carrying capacity. Mere stating that Towing capacity allows for a 150# person at the start of my post.

As most understand, cargo capacity rating affects towing ability but is totally separate from tow ratings.

Actually, tow capacity accounts for two 150 lb people and a 70 lb hitch.

[bikendan]

Originally Posted by AlaskaErik

Actually, tow capacity accounts for two 150 lb people and a 70 lb hitch.

Please provide your source of this statement because it goes against what Auto manufacturers have stated for many years.

[Dustyhd]

Originally Posted by bikendan

Please provide your source of this statement because it goes against what Auto manufacturers have stated for many years.

https://fifthwheelst.com/documents/t...ds-2016-02.pdf

[hazmat456]

https://www.fleet.ford.com/towing-guides/
The ccc sticker includes the weight of the driver and is not for this purpose considered an occupant.
That being said it is still the drivers responsibility to assure the vehicle remains under the GVWR.

[Dustyhd]

Specifically

[Boomerweps]

Originally Posted by hazmat456

Attachment 225027
https://www.fleet.ford.com/towing-guides/
The ccc sticker includes the weight of the driver and is not for this purpose considered an occupant.
That being said it is still the drivers responsibility to assure the vehicle remains under the GVWR.

This is a confusing addition to the discussion. In this case, and this case ONLY, the driver and a person IN EACH SEAT (at 150# each) is NOT part of the Cargo capacity. This case being Cargo weight ratings for a slide in camper. Per Ford Towing Guide.

[hazmat456]

Yes it is confusing. But I think it shows why people have a different idea as to what the rating actually are and what they mean. I have so far found one ford manual that claims ccc ratings include the driver and yet another that claims it doesn't. If the manufacturer would put shipped actual weight on the sticker with the GVWR that would be the most helpful with purchase decisions.
It almost like the marketing department wants that kept a secret.