Payload Payload Payload

[RookieRV]

Live and learn and do your research...
I bought a 2019 Ram 2500 diesel and was told it could tow up to 17,500 pounds. I'm thinking WOW! A 5er would not be a problem. I currently have a bumper pull. Well, after reading this forum and doing my due diligence I found out that my Ram's payload was only 1908#. Subtracting mine and DW weight along with supplies my payload MAX would be approx 1300#. Unless I purchased a 5ver that had TOTAL wt of 6500# I would be over.
I traded by Ram (that I liked) but sucky payload for a 2020 F350 with Turbo Diesel. My new payload is 3504# so I will have no problem purchasing a 5ver of our choice.
This was an expensive lesson I have learned. I'm sure there will be many more. Just wanted to post this 'lesson' for anyone looking to buy a TV. Payload, Payload, Payload. I love this forum. Thank you.

[Kimber45]

low payload on 3/4 ton diesels is highly discussed on this forum. not sure where you came up with your 6500 figure. there are plenty of 8-10k pound 5th wheels with pin weight under 1300.

[SlowrideHD]

Originally Posted by Kimber45

low payload on 3/4 ton diesels is highly discussed on this forum. not sure where you came up with your 6500 figure. there are plenty of 8-10k pound 5th wheels with pin weight under 1300.

He's using 20% for a pin weight. A lot of people use that number as an upper limit to calculate tow weight even though 15% may be closer to actual load.

[RookieRV]

I used a pin weight of 20% of total trailer weight which would be 6500#. Went to RV show last weekend and out of the 5vers we looked at were around 2300 to 2500# pin weight.
I also failed to mention my truck came with Ramboxes, which could cause another issue...

[AlaskaErik]

That's what salesmen do. They sucker you in with the MAX tow rating, which is the most misused and irrelevant number in the RV world. It is totally meaningless and is a bragging rights number for manufacturers. That's all. It has no application in the real world. At 1910 lbs, even my half ton Silverado has a higher payload capacity. And that's a much more critical figure to be looking at when buying a tow vehicle. With that small of a payload capacity, you would have been looking at one of the lighter so-called half ton towable 5ers or a medium size bumper pull. Tough lesson to learn. But now, with 3504 lbs of payload, you have a lot more options.

[Blackrock]

Originally Posted by RookieRV

Live and learn and do your research...
I bought a 2019 Ram 2500 diesel and was told it could tow up to 17,500 pounds. I'm thinking WOW! A 5er would not be a problem. I currently have a bumper pull. Well, after reading this forum and doing my due diligence I found out that my Ram's payload was only 1908#. Subtracting mine and DW weight along with supplies my payload MAX would be approx 1300#. Unless I purchased a 5ver that had TOTAL wt of 6500# I would be over.
I traded by Ram (that I liked) but sucky payload for a 2020 F350 with Turbo Diesel. My new payload is 3504# so I will have no problem purchasing a 5ver of our choice.
This was an expensive lesson I have learned. I'm sure there will be many more. Just wanted to post this 'lesson' for anyone looking to buy a TV. Payload, Payload, Payload. I love this forum. Thank you.

at 1908# that's less than 100# above the payload of my 2016 Ram 1500 which is 1820#.

[bikendan]

Originally Posted by AlaskaErik

That's what salesmen do. They sucker you in with the MAX tow rating, which is the most misused and irrelevant number in the RV world. It is totally meaningless and is a bragging rights number for manufacturers. That's all.

Amen!

[emm-dee]

I bought a 2018 Ram 2500 CTD (since sold) and the CAT scale came up with a payload of 2,400 pounds. That’s with a full tank of fuel, me in the driver’s seat and the normal stuff always carried.

Door sticker payloads are for advertising or comparison only and have nothing to do with real world conditions.

[upflying]

You could tow that rated 17,500# with a 5th wheel tow dolly..
My payload is 2408#, that in line six up front is a heavy sucker..

[SlowrideHD]

Man....I would love to back that rig into a tight spot. That would be a lot of fun. I enjoy a challenge and it would be like backing a hay wagon hooked onto a baler, behind a tractor!

[KSH]

Originally Posted by RookieRV

I used a pin weight of 20% of total trailer weight which would be 6500#. Went to RV show last weekend and out of the 5vers we looked at were around 2300 to 2500# pin weight.

I also failed to mention my truck came with Ramboxes, which could cause another issue...

I have a 2500 with ram boxes, tow my 5th wheel with no problem. Payload looks low but not when you look at gawr. Although everyone has an opinion about that. Love the ram boxes, was worried about the 5th wheel until I got it setup.

[Mike134]

Originally Posted by upflying

You could tow that rated 17,500# with a 5th wheel tow dolly..
My payload is 2408#, that in line six up front is a heavy sucker..

Why do I get the feeling there would be sway issues with that setup?

[Ejs4029]

Originally Posted by AlaskaErik

That's what salesmen do. They sucker you in with the MAX tow rating, which is the most misused and irrelevant number in the RV world. It is totally meaningless and is a bragging rights number for manufacturers. That's all. It has no application in the real world. At 1910 lbs, even my half ton Silverado has a higher payload capacity. And that's a much more critical figure to be looking at when buying a tow vehicle. With that small of a payload capacity, you would have been looking at one of the lighter so-called half ton towable 5ers or a medium size bumper pull. Tough lesson to learn. But now, with 3504 lbs of payload, you have a lot more options.

Just curious what do you consider a medium sized bumper pull to be ? And why you think his RAM 2500 would max out towing it ?

Personally I would take his old RAM 2500 diesel over any other 1/2 ton with the same payload rating.

[AlaskaErik]

Originally Posted by emm-dee

I bought a 2018 Ram 2500 CTD (since sold) and the CAT scale came up with a payload of 2,400 pounds. That’s with a full tank of fuel, me in the driver’s seat and the normal stuff always carried.

Door sticker payloads are for advertising or comparison only and have nothing to do with real world conditions.

I call that the remaining payload capacity. I'm at 6300 lbs with just me and a full tank of gas on my 2016 Silverado 1500. GVWR is 7200 lbs, so I have 900 lbs of remaining payload capacity. Stated payload capacity is 1572lbs, so I've already used up 672 lbs of it. I'm 250 fully dressed (which is the only way I'll drive), a canopy, tube steps and mud flaps account for maybe another 200 lbs, so there's over 200 lbs I can't account for. I don't carry a bunch of junk around and there are no other add-ons.

[Boomerweps]

Quick internet search says CCC does NOT include any occupants, I.e., driver but DOES include a tank of fuel.

[CurtPutnam]

Originally Posted by Boomerweps

Quick internet search says CCC does NOT include any occupants, I.e., driver but DOES include a tank of fuel.

True

I'm gonna guess that is because the weight of the fuel can be precisely calculated and is a known constant whereas pretty much everything else is fungible.

What worries me is the claim that the door stickers are marketing numbers. Does anyone else have input on that issue?

[bikendan]

Originally Posted by CurtPutnam

What worries me is the claim that the door stickers are marketing numbers. Does anyone else have input on that issue?

Here's the deal.
Payload threads/posts are very often about someone who's looking for the rignt tow vehicle. Many of us, recommend the buyer look at the payload sticker because it's a good number to start with. Expecting a prospective buyer to take every vehicle they're interested in, to a CAT scale, is ridiculous. I'm not sure many dealers would allow this. And, for many, a CAT scale is not available. I live near I5 and until recently, the nearest CAT scale was 50 miles away. So imagine the salesperson's face when I would've said, "I'm interested in this truck but I need to drive to make a 100 mile roundtrip drive to weigh it".
For the 2 years I shopped for a tow vehicle, where I looked at over 100 truck's, the payload sticker was the easiest and fastest way to eliminate a truck for consideration.
Sure weighing a vehicle to accurately assess its payload capacity is the best course of action. But if you're shopping for the appropriate tow vehicle, the payload sticker is a perfectly good and easy place to start your search.

[CurtPutnam]

Originally Posted by bikendan

Here's the deal.
Payload threads/posts are very often about someone who's looking for the rignt tow vehicle. Many of us, recommend the buyer look at the payload sticker because it's a good number to start with. Expecting a prospective buyer to take every vehicle they're interested in, to a CAT scale, is ridiculous. I'm not sure many dealers would allow this. And, for many, a CAT scale is not available. I live near I5 and until recently, the nearest CAT scale was 50 miles away. So imagine the salesperson's face when I would've said, "I'm interested in this truck but I need to drive to make a 100 mile roundtrip drive to weigh it".
For the 2 years I shopped for a tow vehicle, where I looked at over 100 truck's, the payload sticker was the easiest and fastest way to eliminate a truck for consideration.
Sure weighing a vehicle to accurately assess its payload capacity is the best course of action. But if you're shopping for the appropriate tow vehicle, the payload sticker is a perfectly good and easy place to start your search.

Thank you. So, if one is near limits then the truck should be weighed. Otherwise, we can happily live with the sticker number. For example, my truck has a CCC of ~3340 lbs. I'm not even close to limits. Tongue weight < 1400 lbs and passengers and gear run about 600 - 700 lbs. Just for grins, one of these days we will go to a scale, but in my circumstance, I see no need to weigh it.

[Flybob]

This seems to be a perpetual area of discussion/disagreement. As Dan stated above for most cases the cargo capacity on the door sticker is fine and probably pretty close. The bigger issue is the max towing capacity. This is a marketing number and the one almost always quoted by Salespeople as it sounds great. The issue with towing capacity is that it doesn't use a standard factor for weight load added to the chassis of the TV. Think a 4 wheel farm wagon with a pintel draw bar. In addition this subject is usually asked by newer RVers and with less towing experience. CCC is a simple way to guide them.

[bikendan]

Originally Posted by Flybob

The issue with towing capacity is that it doesn't use a standard factor for weight load added to the chassis of the TV. Think a 4 wheel farm wagon with a pintel draw bar. In addition this subject is usually asked by newer RVers and with less towing experience. CCC is a simple way to guide them.

Agreed and those max tow ratings are done in level and perfect conditions and not with a high profile trailer.
Too many with lots of towing experience, seem to forget that most newbies have little to no towing experience and their advice to them, should have that in mind.