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Old 02-16-2020, 08:47 AM   #41
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Slow ride I know that your 2002 Ford was a legendary truck. But those trucks as nice as they were for the times, are not even in the league of a 13+ HD Truck.

Now I love duelies. There are tons of F450ís out there in my area at good prices. I talked to a gentlemen a couple of months ago, new f450 and towing a camper smaller than the one Iím towing. Says heís getting 12.5 mpg unloaded and 7-7.5 mpg towing. Is that your experience?

I get 19-20 mpg w my Ram unloaded and 11-11.5 w my Coach. Now I get that a duelie in some respects is gonna be better than a SRW. But those numbers chilled my idea of buying a duelie especially when my Ram is having zero issues w my Creek.

But safety is my concern. Like I talked to a gentleman in a campground towing a duelie level camper, In my opinion, with a Chevy 2500 HD, and he said he goes 70-75 mph. I tow at 65 mph. Thatís just way too fast for any combo.

My point is I think assured clear distance, speed, condition of your equipment, weather conditions, driver attentiveness or distractions, is 90% of making sure you are safe.

When I first got my 3500, I was used to driving my EcoDiesel,It was really a Cadillac truck, but I had several hard stops. I finally realized after I got the crap scarred out of me by a deer hunter than I need to rethink how I drive this truck. So I work all the time on driving my truck like I would drive it when towing.

And thatís where safety starts.

So for the OP thinking about a new truck, your precious cargo and the safety of that cargo come first and defining that safety with your truck choice is job one.
Mike is on point .... you should be under your capacities for your rig .... there are so many more things to consider to be safe along with the right truck/camper ....
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Old 02-16-2020, 11:18 AM   #42
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Slow ride I know that your 2002 Ford was a legendary truck. But those trucks as nice as they were for the times, are not even in the league of a 13+ HD Truck.

Now I love duelies. There are tons of F450ís out there in my area at good prices. I talked to a gentlemen a couple of months ago, new f450 and towing a camper smaller than the one Iím towing. Says heís getting 12.5 mpg unloaded and 7-7.5 mpg towing. Is that your experience?
Day in and day out I average about 16.5 mpg with my '16 F350. The best I get is a bit over 19 mpg if I hold a steady and empty speed of less than 65 mph.

Towing my 5er, and I have towed it probably more than 20K miles, I average about 11.5 mpg at 67 mph. On a slow easy drive (for instance on the Natchez Trace) I have got close to 14 mpg. Fighting a hard Texas headwind, I have got as low as 9.5 mpg. Wind effects me more than hills.

Towing with this truck is practically as effortless as it can get. My DW does wish for an air ride seat on some of these deteriorating highways though. I'd put one in but I hate to lose the leather, power and heated/cooled seat function.
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Old 02-16-2020, 11:40 AM   #43
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Have I posted something in the wrong forum, I was just asking a question about towing issues. Sorry if I have offended anyone. New to the forum site
Haha - nope, you're perfectly fine. But if you think this is bad, just wait until you ask about tire inflation pressure . . .

As someone much wiser than me once said, "It's a lot easier to ask a dumb question than fix a stupid mistake!!"
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Old 02-21-2020, 05:43 PM   #44
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You need to run the numbers. I was over on payload on my 3/4 at about the same weight. Cat scales will tell you what you need to know.Good luck on your decision.
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Old 02-22-2020, 06:11 PM   #45
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Payload has nothing to do with the engines ability to move it. It has do with stress on the trans, axles ability to handle the weight and braking ability. all of those combined.
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Old 02-24-2020, 09:33 PM   #46
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Payload has nothing to do with the engines ability to move it. It has do with stress on the trans, axles ability to handle the weight and braking ability. all of those combined.


True except most transmission are the same between 1 ton and 3/4 ton. Also as I pointed out on previous post many share same brakes as well. I also believe the 14k parachute behind the truck would add more stress than the 4K sitting in the bed
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Old 02-24-2020, 10:25 PM   #47
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True except most transmission are the same between 1 ton and 3/4 ton. Also as I pointed out on previous post many share same brakes as well. I also believe the 14k parachute behind the truck would add more stress than the 4K sitting in the bed

My point was all this talk about different engines when the main factors are trans, trans cooler, diff gearing, suspension, brakes, etc. they play a much bigger role in determining payload.
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Old 02-25-2020, 11:55 AM   #48
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My point was all this talk about different engines when the main factors are trans, trans cooler, diff gearing, suspension, brakes, etc. they play a much bigger role in determining payload.
Some of those do; some work the other direction. You're still miscasting what payload is. Bigger brakes will reduce payload. The presence of a transmission cooler will reduce payload.

Payload is a structural rating. Frame, axles, suspension, and other load-bearing components will determine GVWR and payload. Everything else, even if those things improve the towing experience, will actually reduce payload.

You can add airbags, secondary oil/tranny coolers, WDHs, larger brakes/rotors, and all manner of towing aids. They all reduce available payload.
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Old 02-25-2020, 12:19 PM   #49
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Those that say you run out of payload before you exceed what you tow. I am not sure of that just looked in the door jam of I believe Ford Explorer/ escape. Regardless small 4 door suv willing to bet unibody front wheel drive. Payload 1589
I had a 2006 Chevy 2500HD with the 6.0 gasser it's payload was 3096 lbs yet it's tow rating was only 9,800 lbs.
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Old 02-25-2020, 04:08 PM   #50
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Some of those do; some work the other direction. You're still miscasting what payload is. Bigger brakes will reduce payload. The presence of a transmission cooler will reduce payload.

Payload is a structural rating. Frame, axles, suspension, and other load-bearing components will determine GVWR and payload. Everything else, even if those things improve the towing experience, will actually reduce payload.

You can add airbags, secondary oil/tranny coolers, WDHs, larger brakes/rotors, and all manner of towing aids. They all reduce available payload.
They all go into the calculations the manufacture uses to determine payload, If the engine, trans, axles and suspension can handle 2000# more but the brakes cannot stop it, then you get a lower payload. The entire combined systems ability and weight determine payload.
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Old 02-26-2020, 03:46 PM   #51
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All these various answers on payload yet not one law or even a statement that says whether the payload sticker is the end all be all or if something as easy as a tire upgrade can increase payload. At this time just opinions where can we find facts
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Old 02-26-2020, 03:52 PM   #52
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All these various answers on payload yet not one law or even a statement that says whether the payload sticker is the end all be all or if something as easy as a tire upgrade can increase payload. At this time just opinions where can we find facts
I think GVWR is the number along with axle ratings you should not exceed.... that said 1000's tow overweight.... seems to be a choice
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Old 02-26-2020, 06:23 PM   #53
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All these various answers on payload yet not one law or even a statement that says whether the payload sticker is the end all be all or if something as easy as a tire upgrade can increase payload. At this time just opinions where can we find facts

Stalone saying "The Law" in Judge Dredd popped into my head when I read this.
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Old 02-26-2020, 10:25 PM   #54
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All these various answers on payload yet not one law or even a statement that says whether the payload sticker is the end all be all or if something as easy as a tire upgrade can increase payload. At this time just opinions where can we find facts
You are correct. There arenít any laws Iíve ever seen that speak directly to payload. For that matter, I havenít seen laws around GAWR or other ratings, though I suppose they could certainly exist.

The most common laws deal with GVWR. But, payload is simply the GVWR less the curb weight of the vehicle in its stock form. So, payload is a proxy for GVWR. Thatís why itís important and given weight.

Iíve literally never heard or read a case where an individual towing an RV was cited or even pulled over for anything to do with weight. The closest Iíve read was a guy who was flagged into a weigh station, found to be over GVWR (diesel 3/4 ton), and told to go home. But, he was towing a gooseneck (donít know what was on it) and was probably mistaken for a commercial load.

I think itís stupid to go overweight. However, people who warn of tickets, liability, insurance claims, and those sorts of things are just playing the hyperbole game.
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Old 02-26-2020, 10:32 PM   #55
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They all go into the calculations the manufacture uses to determine payload, If the engine, trans, axles and suspension can handle 2000# more but the brakes cannot stop it, then you get a lower payload. The entire combined systems ability and weight determine payload.
I donít believe thatís true. Those things may go into determining GVWR, but payload is simply the difference of GVWR and curb weight of the vehicle as it rolls off the line (GVW).

If a truck has a GVWR of 10,000 lbs and weighs 8,000 lbs, then its payload is 2,000 lbs. If you put bigger, heavier brakes on that truck with the 10,000 lb GVWR, then your payload will go down.

The only exception Iíve seen are tires. Sometimes, factory tires become limiting. If GVWR - GVW = 3,800 lbs but the weight rating of four crappy AS tires only totals 3,600 lbs ... then the payload sticker will show 3,600 lbs.

Perhaps there are other exceptions besides tires where the payload sticker shows a number thatís less than GVWR - GVW?
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Old 02-27-2020, 07:01 AM   #56
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I donít believe thatís true. Those things may go into determining GVWR, but payload is simply the difference of GVWR and curb weight of the vehicle as it rolls off the line (GVW).

If a truck has a GVWR of 10,000 lbs and weighs 8,000 lbs, then its payload is 2,000 lbs. If you put bigger, heavier brakes on that truck with the 10,000 lb GVWR, then your payload will go down.

The only exception Iíve seen are tires. Sometimes, factory tires become limiting. If GVWR - GVW = 3,800 lbs but the weight rating of four crappy AS tires only totals 3,600 lbs ... then the payload sticker will show 3,600 lbs.

Perhaps there are other exceptions besides tires where the payload sticker shows a number thatís less than GVWR - GVW?
Ok, I think we are disagreeing on semantics. Because those things determine GVWR, they determine payload. Ford execs don't tell engineers to figure out how to get a higher GVWR, they tell them to get more payload. Marketing doesn't make commercials about GVWR, they market payload.
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Old 02-27-2020, 10:10 AM   #57
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And all these capacity numbers are a compromise between engineers, lawyers, and marketing. Wouldn't you love to know what the real numbers started off being?!
What amazes me is that the newer trucks, that have so much more stated capacity, also seem to squat more than much older trucks that have less capacity as per the door sticker. We now have to add airbags to every new truck on the farm, just to keep them level. Most off the older ones require no airbags to handle the same gooseneck load. Just an interesting RL observation.
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Old 02-27-2020, 01:33 PM   #58
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And all these capacity numbers are a compromise between engineers, lawyers, and marketing. Wouldn't you love to know what the real numbers started off being?!
What amazes me is that the newer trucks, that have so much more stated capacity, also seem to squat more than much older trucks that have less capacity as per the door sticker. We now have to add airbags to every new truck on the farm, just to keep them level. Most off the older ones require no airbags to handle the same gooseneck load. Just an interesting RL observation.

Got to have the cushy ride when unloaded for the mall crawlers who never carry anything more than groceries.
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