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02-04-2020, 08:53 PM
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#1
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Junior Member
Join Date: Jan 2020
Posts: 4
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Pin Weights for Fifth Wheel
I presently own a 2016 2500HD 4WD Duramax 6 1/2' bed. We are pulling a new Sandpiper 39BARK that 12,100 dry. What are your opinions or facts on the safety of pulling this with a 2500. I have heard several different explanations. I have pulled a Cardinal 3850 with no problem 600 plus miles. With no problem, BUT I carry precious cargo and don't want to push the limits. Looking now at 3500HD Long box SRW to eliminate any questions. Thanks for your experience and thoughts
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02-04-2020, 09:20 PM
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#2
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Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2017
Posts: 606
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Not much of a difference in the 2500 to 3500. Pretty sure you already have the beefier rear. Brakes are the same. Just the leaf pack is different.
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02-04-2020, 09:34 PM
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#3
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Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Middle Ga
Posts: 426
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To estimate pin weight, I try to figure worse case. Worse case is not dry weight, but GVWR of the trailer. So, without looking it up, lets assume you have 2,000 lbs cargo carrying capacity for that 5er, making the max weight it could be is 14,100 lbs.
Assuming a 25% pin weight, which is generally considered to be average, the pin weight for that 5er is likely to be in the neighborhood of 3525 lbs.
Does your 2500 have enough cargo capacity to carry 3525 lbs, PLUS, your weight, weight of passengers and cargo, hitch (200lbs probably unless you get an Andersen), plus full fuel (8lbs a gallon)? I would be not, but even if not, it's not all lost.
Your Rear Gross Axle Weight Ratiing (RGAWR) of your truck should also be listed on a sticker on the door jam. Does the 3525lbs for pin weight, plus your trucks rear axle weight unloaded, plus the 200 lbs (or more) of hitch all together add up to less than the RGAWR listed for your truck?
Im betting once you run the numbers you will find you exceed for sure your payload, and likely/possibly the RGAWR.
My 5er weight is 13880 and the pin weight is 3060 (22%) fully loaded. My hitch weights 300lbs. With all my passengers, and the pin weight, I am 10lbs OVER my payload on my 3500, but 350 below axle. My trailer would well exceed a 2500's capacities.
Mike
__________________
TV = 2017 Ram 3500 (aka FRAM)
5er = SOB (2019 Grand Design Reflection 367BHS)
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02-04-2020, 09:50 PM
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#4
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Site Team
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Goodyear, Arizona
Posts: 33,835
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If you posted your truck's payload capacity from the driver's door yellow sticker, it would help.
__________________
Dan-Retired California Firefighter/EMT
Shawn-Musician/Entrepreneur/Wine Expert
and Zoe the Wonder Dog(R.I.P.)
2016 PrimeTime TracerAIR 255, pushing a 2014 Ford F150 SCREW XTR 4x4 3.5 Ecoboost w/Max Tow Package
4pt Equal-i-zer WDH and 1828lbs of payload capacity
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02-04-2020, 11:05 PM
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#5
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Always Learning
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Four Corners, FL
Posts: 21,891
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You can estimate the pin weight by extrapolating from the dry weights:
Estimating Tongue/Pin Weight from Dry Weights - TowingPlanner
Fully loaded to 15,079 pounds (the GVWR?, you’re looking at a realistic pin weight of about 3,000 pounds.
Now, the question of “is it safe?” That’s a forum war just waiting to start.
You’ll almost definitely be over the truck’s GVWR once you add the hitch, driver, passengers, and items in/on the truck.
Most folks pulling with 3/4 ton trucks focus more on the rear GAWR and the tire loading capacity. If you weigh your truck now, will you be at/under those?
__________________
Officially a SOB with a 2022 Jayco Precept 36C
Checkout my site for RVing tips, tricks, and info | Was a Fulltime Family for 5 years, now we're part-timing on long trips
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02-04-2020, 11:54 PM
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#6
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Southern NM
Posts: 9,562
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14k total RV weight (12k dry) is about the max in my head for a 3/4 ton, and you might need air bags at that. My pin weights have always been closer to 15%, but you don't know until you weigh your specific rig when loaded.
If you are under all the weight specifications for your truck, except CC, then I wouldn't worry about it. But that's me, and the category I'm in. I have run 900lbs over CC and it doesn't even squat the truck to level w/o air bags. So I don't worry about it. I'm sure this will cause others a conniption fit, but you have to decide for yourself.
You will be in the either truck will work category, so it's all about what you are most comfortable with.
__________________
Scott and Liz - Southern NM
2012 Wildcat Sterling 32RL - w/level up (best option ever)
2007 Chevy 2500HD Duramax
Reese Fifth Airborne Sidewinder
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02-05-2020, 12:53 AM
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#7
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 10,833
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If you are buying a brand new 2020 look at the Ford Superduty F 350 SRW. If not optioned too heavily you can get a CCC of 4,400 lbs. Don't think anyone else can touch that with 2020.
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02-05-2020, 01:03 AM
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#8
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Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2019
Location: Mesa, AZ
Posts: 212
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I took it that the OP was looking at a Duramax...
__________________
2012 Ram Laramie 2500 4x4 CC SB Cummins
2016 Flagstaff 8528RKWS
Patrick (order taker), Barbara (order giver) & Jasper (Dutch Shepherd) and now Jade (Boxer/Lab/Pointer hybrid) aka PB&JJ
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02-05-2020, 05:02 AM
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#9
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Grammar Pedant
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Frederick, CO
Posts: 1,580
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You'll be way over payload on a 3/4 ton diesel.
You'll be close to over payload on a 1 ton diesel SRW.
You'll be in the sweet spot of a DRW.
It's up to you whether or not payload/GVWR matters to you. For some people, they don't care. For others, they like to stay within manufacturer's rated specifications.
Good luck.
__________________
Every time you use an apostrophe to make a word plural, a puppy dies.
TV: 2019 F-350 Lariat 4WD CCSB 6.7 PSD 3.55, 3,591 lb payload
Former RV: 2018 Rockwood Mini Lite 2504S
Former RV: 2007 Fleetwood/Coleman Utah
Former TV: 2005 F-150 King Ranch 4WD SCrew 5.4L Tow Package
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02-05-2020, 06:48 AM
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#10
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: North Port Florida
Posts: 2,050
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Quote:
Originally Posted by B and B
If you are buying a brand new 2020 look at the Ford Superduty F 350 SRW. If not optioned too heavily you can get a CCC of 4,400 lbs. Don't think anyone else can touch that with 2020.
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my Ram can 4394 payload SRW ... and there is a big difference between 3/4 and 1 ton many just don't see it that way ... thanks
__________________
Frank & Cindy--- (SOB) 5th Wheel ---2019 Ram 3500 Cummins 6.7 SRW 4x4 8' bed--- Payload 4394------Remi & Sage camping pups---TST 507 TPMS ... B&W Patriot 18K---3.73 axle ... Predator 3500---2019 48 days ---2020 28 days Camping
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02-05-2020, 09:34 AM
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#11
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Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 1,947
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kimber45
do folks join this site to start towing threads or is it just me?
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Maybe they are new to all this and in search of good answers which directs them to forums like this, just like I did, and many of us did years ago....we all start somewhere, and get introduced to these forums, often when we are in search of answers. Your response is not helpful to the person in search.
__________________
2016 Chevy Silverado 2500 Duramax
2016 Rockwood 8289WS, Diamond Pkg.
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02-05-2020, 09:37 AM
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#12
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Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 1,947
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PatrickY
I took it that the OP was looking at a Duramax...
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The OP already owns the Duramax and just bought a new trailer, and is now questioning if he can safely tow it...sound familiar? So many of us have been down that road...
__________________
2016 Chevy Silverado 2500 Duramax
2016 Rockwood 8289WS, Diamond Pkg.
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02-05-2020, 10:36 AM
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#13
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Southern NM
Posts: 9,562
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 67L48
You'll be way over payload on a 3/4 ton diesel.
You'll be close to over payload on a 1 ton diesel SRW.
You'll be in the sweet spot of a DRW.
It's up to you whether or not payload/GVWR matters to you. For some people, they don't care. For others, they like to stay within manufacturer's rated specifications.
Good luck.
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You definitely are on the safest end of the spectrum, towing a less than 7k lb bumper pull with a one ton.
__________________
Scott and Liz - Southern NM
2012 Wildcat Sterling 32RL - w/level up (best option ever)
2007 Chevy 2500HD Duramax
Reese Fifth Airborne Sidewinder
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02-05-2020, 02:23 PM
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#14
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Member
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 56
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Towing pin weight
This website will help you out.
https://fifthwheelst.com/
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02-05-2020, 02:33 PM
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#15
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Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: Greensboro NC
Posts: 1,140
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chief 24
I presently own a 2016 2500HD 4WD Duramax 6 1/2' bed. We are pulling a new Sandpiper 39BARK that 12,100 dry. What are your opinions or facts on the safety of pulling this with a 2500. I have heard several different explanations. I have pulled a Cardinal 3850 with no problem 600 plus miles. With no problem, BUT I carry precious cargo and don't want to push the limits. Looking now at 3500HD Long box SRW to eliminate any questions. Thanks for your experience and thoughts
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Im towing around the same weights.. I think im around 13.5 loaded.I tow with a 1 ton long bed, it handles the load beautifully. I have seen many campers our size and bigger behind 2500's and that comes down to a personal choice.
For me our 2500 was struggling with a 10K trailer (power wise on the hills) so when We decided to trade and knew it was going to be a diesel we instantly went for the 1 ton because of the what if factor down the road. Less than a year later we traded our TT for the 5'vr and its a comftorable fit. If you are running numbers in your head and already looking at a 1 ton, then I would do it.
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02-05-2020, 03:46 PM
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#16
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Senior Member
Join Date: May 2018
Location: Texas
Posts: 1,371
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Tow
A suspension shop can add the extra rear springs, about $750. If you are happy w/ current truck. Gets you 95% of same year HD 3500. Newer will have more power, then go to 3500.
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02-05-2020, 03:47 PM
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#17
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New to FR. Old to TT
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: SW MI.
Posts: 235
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cmysstailights
Not much of a difference in the 2500 to 3500. Pretty sure you already have the beefier rear. Brakes are the same. Just the leaf pack is different.
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We have a CC36CK2 with a pin weight of about 2700 lb. Our tv is a 2018 gmc 2500 duramax as above post is correct the only difference between a gmc 2500 and 3500 is one leaf spring. We are within rear axle rates but do use airbags mostly for bouncing. I also upgraded the tires to 3800lb load rating. We have pulled our CC for over 17,000 miles never had a problem even if 30+ cross winds. A 3500hd would have been within load capacity.
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02-05-2020, 06:53 PM
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#18
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Byron Center, MI
Posts: 430
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tall frog
We have a CC36CK2 with a pin weight of about 2700 lb. Our tv is a 2018 gmc 2500 duramax as above post is correct the only difference between a gmc 2500 and 3500 is one leaf spring. We are within rear axle rates but do use airbags mostly for bouncing. I also upgraded the tires to 3800lb load rating. We have pulled our CC for over 17,000 miles never had a problem even if 30+ cross winds. A 3500hd would have been within load capacity.
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Very helpful info - thank you
I have the same truck and have just ordered a similar sized trailer (SOB).
I’ve done the homework and have made the same conclusions.
A similarly built 3500 SRW has an additional 2,000# of payload only by adding an overload leaf on each side.
Thanks for chiming in.
__________________
2020 SOB - Jayco North Point 387RDFS
2013 Crusader 325RES Touring Edition - SOLD
TV: 2018 GMC Sierra Denali HD CC SRW L5P Duramax Curt Q20
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02-05-2020, 08:31 PM
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#19
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Junior Member
Join Date: Jan 2020
Posts: 4
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Confused
Have I posted something in the wrong forum, I was just asking a question about towing issues. Sorry if I have offended anyone. New to the forum site
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02-06-2020, 12:32 AM
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#20
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Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: Alaska
Posts: 1,182
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chief 24
Have I posted something in the wrong forum, I was just asking a question about towing issues. Sorry if I have offended anyone. New to the forum site
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You haven't offended anyone, but some people think being 1000 lbs over gross is no big deal or adding an extra leaf spring and maybe some air bags is the cure. The fact of the matter is that 3/4 ton diesels have a pretty low payload capacity. Most likely, the pin weight of the 5er you will be towing already has you over your payload capacity. That's before you add in yourself, the wife, the kids, the dog and all the gear in your truck and the hitch. The only real question you should be asking is do I get a one ton SRW or DRW. Get an accurate pin weight when the trailer is loaded, determine how much the family, including yourself, weighs as well as all your cargo going into the truck and the weight of the hitch. Once you know how much all that weighs, get a one ton that has a yellow sticker in the driver's door jamb with a payload capacity higher than that number. You won't need to look at 3/4 tons, because none of them will have a payload capacity weight that's even close to your actual payload weight.
__________________
2019 Silverado LTZ 1500 6.2L 10 Speed 3.42 Max Trailering Package
2018 Freedom Express 192RBS
2022 Highland Ridge Open Air Lite Range 17BH
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