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Old 02-04-2020, 08:53 PM   #1
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Pin Weights for Fifth Wheel

I presently own a 2016 2500HD 4WD Duramax 6 1/2' bed. We are pulling a new Sandpiper 39BARK that 12,100 dry. What are your opinions or facts on the safety of pulling this with a 2500. I have heard several different explanations. I have pulled a Cardinal 3850 with no problem 600 plus miles. With no problem, BUT I carry precious cargo and don't want to push the limits. Looking now at 3500HD Long box SRW to eliminate any questions. Thanks for your experience and thoughts
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Old 02-04-2020, 09:20 PM   #2
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Not much of a difference in the 2500 to 3500. Pretty sure you already have the beefier rear. Brakes are the same. Just the leaf pack is different.
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Old 02-04-2020, 09:34 PM   #3
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To estimate pin weight, I try to figure worse case. Worse case is not dry weight, but GVWR of the trailer. So, without looking it up, lets assume you have 2,000 lbs cargo carrying capacity for that 5er, making the max weight it could be is 14,100 lbs.


Assuming a 25% pin weight, which is generally considered to be average, the pin weight for that 5er is likely to be in the neighborhood of 3525 lbs.


Does your 2500 have enough cargo capacity to carry 3525 lbs, PLUS, your weight, weight of passengers and cargo, hitch (200lbs probably unless you get an Andersen), plus full fuel (8lbs a gallon)? I would be not, but even if not, it's not all lost.


Your Rear Gross Axle Weight Ratiing (RGAWR) of your truck should also be listed on a sticker on the door jam. Does the 3525lbs for pin weight, plus your trucks rear axle weight unloaded, plus the 200 lbs (or more) of hitch all together add up to less than the RGAWR listed for your truck?


Im betting once you run the numbers you will find you exceed for sure your payload, and likely/possibly the RGAWR.



My 5er weight is 13880 and the pin weight is 3060 (22%) fully loaded. My hitch weights 300lbs. With all my passengers, and the pin weight, I am 10lbs OVER my payload on my 3500, but 350 below axle. My trailer would well exceed a 2500's capacities.


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Old 02-04-2020, 09:50 PM   #4
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If you posted your truck's payload capacity from the driver's door yellow sticker, it would help.
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Old 02-04-2020, 11:05 PM   #5
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You can estimate the pin weight by extrapolating from the dry weights:
Estimating Tongue/Pin Weight from Dry Weights - TowingPlanner

Fully loaded to 15,079 pounds (the GVWR?, you’re looking at a realistic pin weight of about 3,000 pounds.

Now, the question of “is it safe?” That’s a forum war just waiting to start.

You’ll almost definitely be over the truck’s GVWR once you add the hitch, driver, passengers, and items in/on the truck.

Most folks pulling with 3/4 ton trucks focus more on the rear GAWR and the tire loading capacity. If you weigh your truck now, will you be at/under those?
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Old 02-04-2020, 11:54 PM   #6
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14k total RV weight (12k dry) is about the max in my head for a 3/4 ton, and you might need air bags at that. My pin weights have always been closer to 15%, but you don't know until you weigh your specific rig when loaded.
If you are under all the weight specifications for your truck, except CC, then I wouldn't worry about it. But that's me, and the category I'm in. I have run 900lbs over CC and it doesn't even squat the truck to level w/o air bags. So I don't worry about it. I'm sure this will cause others a conniption fit, but you have to decide for yourself.
You will be in the either truck will work category, so it's all about what you are most comfortable with.
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Old 02-05-2020, 12:53 AM   #7
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If you are buying a brand new 2020 look at the Ford Superduty F 350 SRW. If not optioned too heavily you can get a CCC of 4,400 lbs. Don't think anyone else can touch that with 2020.
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Old 02-05-2020, 01:03 AM   #8
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I took it that the OP was looking at a Duramax...
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Old 02-05-2020, 05:02 AM   #9
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You'll be way over payload on a 3/4 ton diesel.
You'll be close to over payload on a 1 ton diesel SRW.
You'll be in the sweet spot of a DRW.

It's up to you whether or not payload/GVWR matters to you. For some people, they don't care. For others, they like to stay within manufacturer's rated specifications.

Good luck.
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Old 02-05-2020, 06:48 AM   #10
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If you are buying a brand new 2020 look at the Ford Superduty F 350 SRW. If not optioned too heavily you can get a CCC of 4,400 lbs. Don't think anyone else can touch that with 2020.
my Ram can 4394 payload SRW ... and there is a big difference between 3/4 and 1 ton many just don't see it that way ... thanks
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Old 02-05-2020, 09:34 AM   #11
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do folks join this site to start towing threads or is it just me?
Maybe they are new to all this and in search of good answers which directs them to forums like this, just like I did, and many of us did years ago....we all start somewhere, and get introduced to these forums, often when we are in search of answers. Your response is not helpful to the person in search.
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Old 02-05-2020, 09:37 AM   #12
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I took it that the OP was looking at a Duramax...
The OP already owns the Duramax and just bought a new trailer, and is now questioning if he can safely tow it...sound familiar? So many of us have been down that road...
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Old 02-05-2020, 10:36 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by 67L48 View Post
You'll be way over payload on a 3/4 ton diesel.
You'll be close to over payload on a 1 ton diesel SRW.
You'll be in the sweet spot of a DRW.

It's up to you whether or not payload/GVWR matters to you. For some people, they don't care. For others, they like to stay within manufacturer's rated specifications.

Good luck.
You definitely are on the safest end of the spectrum, towing a less than 7k lb bumper pull with a one ton.
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Old 02-05-2020, 02:23 PM   #14
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Towing pin weight

This website will help you out.
https://fifthwheelst.com/
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Old 02-05-2020, 02:33 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by Chief 24 View Post
I presently own a 2016 2500HD 4WD Duramax 6 1/2' bed. We are pulling a new Sandpiper 39BARK that 12,100 dry. What are your opinions or facts on the safety of pulling this with a 2500. I have heard several different explanations. I have pulled a Cardinal 3850 with no problem 600 plus miles. With no problem, BUT I carry precious cargo and don't want to push the limits. Looking now at 3500HD Long box SRW to eliminate any questions. Thanks for your experience and thoughts
Im towing around the same weights.. I think im around 13.5 loaded.I tow with a 1 ton long bed, it handles the load beautifully. I have seen many campers our size and bigger behind 2500's and that comes down to a personal choice.
For me our 2500 was struggling with a 10K trailer (power wise on the hills) so when We decided to trade and knew it was going to be a diesel we instantly went for the 1 ton because of the what if factor down the road. Less than a year later we traded our TT for the 5'vr and its a comftorable fit. If you are running numbers in your head and already looking at a 1 ton, then I would do it.
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Old 02-05-2020, 03:46 PM   #16
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A suspension shop can add the extra rear springs, about $750. If you are happy w/ current truck. Gets you 95% of same year HD 3500. Newer will have more power, then go to 3500.
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Old 02-05-2020, 03:47 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by cmysstailights View Post
Not much of a difference in the 2500 to 3500. Pretty sure you already have the beefier rear. Brakes are the same. Just the leaf pack is different.
We have a CC36CK2 with a pin weight of about 2700 lb. Our tv is a 2018 gmc 2500 duramax as above post is correct the only difference between a gmc 2500 and 3500 is one leaf spring. We are within rear axle rates but do use airbags mostly for bouncing. I also upgraded the tires to 3800lb load rating. We have pulled our CC for over 17,000 miles never had a problem even if 30+ cross winds. A 3500hd would have been within load capacity.
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Old 02-05-2020, 06:53 PM   #18
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We have a CC36CK2 with a pin weight of about 2700 lb. Our tv is a 2018 gmc 2500 duramax as above post is correct the only difference between a gmc 2500 and 3500 is one leaf spring. We are within rear axle rates but do use airbags mostly for bouncing. I also upgraded the tires to 3800lb load rating. We have pulled our CC for over 17,000 miles never had a problem even if 30+ cross winds. A 3500hd would have been within load capacity.


Very helpful info - thank you

I have the same truck and have just ordered a similar sized trailer (SOB).
I’ve done the homework and have made the same conclusions.
A similarly built 3500 SRW has an additional 2,000# of payload only by adding an overload leaf on each side.

Thanks for chiming in.
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Old 02-05-2020, 08:31 PM   #19
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Confused

Have I posted something in the wrong forum, I was just asking a question about towing issues. Sorry if I have offended anyone. New to the forum site
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Old 02-06-2020, 12:32 AM   #20
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Have I posted something in the wrong forum, I was just asking a question about towing issues. Sorry if I have offended anyone. New to the forum site
You haven't offended anyone, but some people think being 1000 lbs over gross is no big deal or adding an extra leaf spring and maybe some air bags is the cure. The fact of the matter is that 3/4 ton diesels have a pretty low payload capacity. Most likely, the pin weight of the 5er you will be towing already has you over your payload capacity. That's before you add in yourself, the wife, the kids, the dog and all the gear in your truck and the hitch. The only real question you should be asking is do I get a one ton SRW or DRW. Get an accurate pin weight when the trailer is loaded, determine how much the family, including yourself, weighs as well as all your cargo going into the truck and the weight of the hitch. Once you know how much all that weighs, get a one ton that has a yellow sticker in the driver's door jamb with a payload capacity higher than that number. You won't need to look at 3/4 tons, because none of them will have a payload capacity weight that's even close to your actual payload weight.
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