ram 2500 owners only please

[Jim34RL]

Originally Posted by ENE

Keep in mine about a year ago Chrysler had a recall problem with the fuel filters on the Diesel engines. Their fix was to refresh the computer to force more fuel thru the filter causing all the diesels to use 2-3mpg more. I used to get 15mpg towing now I get 12mpg.
There is a civil law suit against Chrysler for the fix that doesn't cost the owners money out of their pockets. It was kind of a quiet move by Chrysler to refresh the computer for the fix when ever you brought your truck in for any service.

Really!!!

How does a fuel filter cause you to use more fuel? When I was designing hydraulic systems a few years ago, filters never used any fluid that went through them. All a filter will do is filter out the particles at the micron rating of the filter, keeping the debris trapped in the filter media. Thus passing clean fluid to a pump.


What caused you to loss fuel mileage and this is just a guess since I have not seen the recall fix. Is that Ram engineers needed to comply with the EPA requirements for emission after testing the 2012 trucks. So, they increased the fuel burn time to the DPF, software change. Which uses diesel fuel to regenerate the filter. Thus no mileage improvement could come from this.

In 2013.5 the emission system was changed once again to allow the use of DEF (diesel exhaust fluid) which cuts down the amount of regeneration of the DPF and the amount of fuel used to clean the filter. Thus fuel mileage for the newer trucks such as 2013.5 and up have better fuel mileage than trucks built from 2007.5 to 2012.
I am trying to keep this simple!

[aceinspp]

Originally Posted by Ejs4029

Hey RJD what's wrong with where to Tow Haul Mode button is ? I think it's fine where it is...In the Diesel it's right next to the Exhaust brake and where you turn off and on the back up sensors. I just check all three right in a row to make sure they are lit.

For one thing I get a glare from sun driving and when I look down for TH can not see it. Yes my eyes not as good as use to be but put it so one does not fight to see it like Chevy did end of shift knob Later RJD.

[ENE]

The fuel filter can clog and cause damage to engine. By flashing the computer to push more fuel thru the filter would hopefully not let it get clog. It's all explained on the internet if you search for Fiat Chrysler civil law suit for Ram 2500 with Diesel engines. I posted the explanation on this forum from the law suit.

[ENE]

Here it is again:Lawsuit:

Fiat Chrysler Knowingly Sold Dodge RAM Trucks with Defect that Causes Reduced MPG, Frequent Costly Repairs and Illegally High Emissions
07/03/2017

Dodge 2500 and 3500 truck defect places Fiat Chrysler and Cummins in the crosshairs of newest automotive class action regarding emissions

DETROIT – A new class-action lawsuit filed against Fiat Chrysler (FCA) and Cummins states that the automaker knowingly sold hundreds of thousands of Dodge RAM 2500 and 3500 trucks equipped with a Cummins engine which has a defect that leads to lower gas mileage, non EPA-compliant emissions levels, and costly and frequent vehicle repairs, according to leading automotive law firm Hagens Berman.

According to the lawsuit, Dodge RAM owners report that efforts to fix the faulty emissions system dramatically affects engine performance and mileage, with MPG dropping as much as 25 percent.

When the selective catalytic converter (SCR) system breaks down, the filter gets clogged, requiring more fuel to be injected to burn it off, according to the complaint. This drastically reduces the truck's MPG, costing consumers more in fuel.

Additionally, when FCA dealers attempt to fix the SCR system defect, they often simply “flash” the computer to prompt the truck to burn more fuel to clean the filter. When the computer in an affected Dodge RAM 2500 or 3500 is flashed, it causes the truck’s MPG to decline significantly.

If you own or lease a 2013-2017 Dodge RAM 2500 or 3500 with a 6.7-L Cummins diesel engine, you may be entitled to compensation for this defect that inhibits your car’s performance. Contact Hagens Berman to find out more about the lawsuit against FCA and Cummins.

The lawsuit, filed July 3, 2017, in the U.S. District Court for the Eastern District of Michigan, seeks damages and equitable relief for FCA and Cummins' misconduct related to the design, manufacture, marketing, sale and lease of affected Dodge trucks with unlawfully high emissions.

The complaint hits both defendants with charges of fraudulent concealment, breach of warranty, violations of the Racketeer Influenced and Corrupt Organizations Act (RICO), and violations of several state consumer protection laws.

In addition to manufacturing and marketing vehicles with an emissions system that they knew would not work in the long term, FCA and Cummins also failed to fix another discrete issue related to the “washcoat,” or sealant applied to the SCR, which also contributed to illegally high emissions. FCA and Cummins allegedly knew about the washcoat defect for years – at least as early as 2014 – but failed to take action to mitigate the drop in the trucks’ performance or prevent the illegally high levels of pollution emitted by affected RAM trucks.

“Instead of putting consumers first and acting to fix the washcoat defect, FCA and Cummins wasted time and resources, pointing fingers and suing one another, using the defect as leverage in their dispute,” said Steve Berman, managing partner of Hagens Berman. “We consider this case as a smoking gun - clearly FCA and Cummins were fully aware of this washcoat defect. But they placed other priorities above its obligation to fix its defective product and to remedy the harmful pollution these trucks are emitting.”

The complaint states that in the lawsuit between Cummins and FCA, Cummins maintained that a recall to fix the defect was “in the public interest to ensure that Vehicles which are not emissions[-]compliant are appropriately recalled and remedied to avoid future harm to the environment.” According to Cummins, the environmental impact “could be significant.” Despite this imminent harm, Cummins contends, “FCA refuses [to effect the recall] for one reason – money. FCA is holding both Cummins and its own customers hostage to FCA’s commercial demands.”

Despite knowing that the Vehicles failed to meet EPA requirements, both defendants continued to advertise and represent that the trucks were EPA-compliant, even claiming that the Cummins engine was “the lowest emitting diesel engine ever produced.”

“Our firm had already uncovered the dirty truth that FCA cheated emissions testing in its 2014-2016 EcoDiesel vehicles, and in its earlier 2500 and 3500 trucks,” Berman said. “This stands as another instance of its willingness to go to any length to conceal its underhanded tactics and avoid responsibility for issues that directly negatively impact the people supporting its business.”

The complaint cites the experiences of named plaintiffs from Michigan, Alabama, Florida and Pennsylvania who had their vehicles flashed by dealership mechanics. One of the suit’s named plaintiffs, Forrest Poulson, had his truck flashed three times. On one occasion, he asked his dealership mechanic why they were doing it. The mechanic replied, “I will deny this later, but I can tell you that the PCM updates are diverting fuel into the exhaust system to make it burn hotter so that it reduces the amount of emissions leaving the tailpipe.” The mechanic also told him that upwards of 25 percent of the fuel is being diverted through the exhaust system to heat up the emissions, according to the filed complaint.

The lawsuit against Fiat Chrysler is the latest in a series of automotive and emissions cases brought on behalf of Hagens Berman’s automotive legal team, in an effort to uncover instances of illegally polluting vehicles, defects and other wrongdoing committed by the world’s largest automakers. Hagens Berman has been a leader in other recent high-profile cases including unlawful emissions in the VW scandal and has been the pioneering firm uncovering diesel scandals involving other automakers including Mercedes, General Motors’ Silverado and Sierra diesel trucks, and GM’s Chevy Cruze. Hagens Berman has also previously filed emissions suits against Fiat Chrysler regarding its 2007-2012 Dodge RAM 2500 and 3500, and its 2014-2016 Dodge RAM 1500 and Jeep Grand Cherokee EcoDiesel, which led to a formal investigation by the EPA.

Learn more about the new lawsuit against FCA and Cummins.

[Jim34RL]

If the fuel filter was totally clogged your engine would stop. Trying to push more fuel thru this filter would cause it to fail sending debris down stream and causing the CP3 pump to fail. A diesel engine only runs on two things fuel and air without these the engine will not run!

No were in this bottom feeders lawsuit states that it is the fuel filter! He is complaining about the DPF (filter) which is down stream of the engines exhaust. This is a requirement of the EPA and when you do city driving and lug the engine low rpm's you will fill the filter up with soot. What than is needed is the extra fuel to be burned in the 5th or 6th injection (not sure on your engine) which is not used for horsepower but to regenerate the filter. Partial regenerations will also cause the filter to clog. This will happen in city driving and shutting off the regeneration process when the engine is turned off. This is true of all cars/trucks that use only the DPF style filtration to meet the ever change EPA emissions targets.

My truck a 2008, 6.7L Cummins use to regenerate every 200 miles when I was towing my 2010 Cougar obtain between 9 and 10 miles to the gallon. Every fill-up cost me approximately $100+ which was between 25 to 30 gallons when towing in 2008 at $4.+ dollars a gallon.

[goduc]

Sounds like the DPF filter not the fuel filter.

[ENE]

It's the fuel filter, thats why everyone that takes their RAM in service for that model and year will auto flash the computer and they all will lose 3mpg fuel.

[Jim34RL]

Originally Posted by ENE

It's the fuel filter, thats why everyone that takes their RAM in service for that model and year will auto flash the computer and they all will lose 3mpg fuel.

Is this your first diesel engine vehicle?
I have over 50+ years of dealing with diesel engines and vehicles. I was in heavy equipment design of vehicles for 40+ years and have owned two different diesel vehicles. My two sons also have three Cummins engine equipped trucks between them. So, I do know a little bit about diesel engine fuel system and the fuel filter will never cause you to lose fuel mileage. Now if you put a small hole in the filter and housing allowing the fuel to drain on the ground than that is different.

Please reread the article you keep pushing us to read and see were this article mentions a fuel filter by name and not the DPF!

Also; I have taken in my vehicle to a Chrysler dealer for service and recalls and my truck has never been flashed without my permission. If I do not want the re-flash of the ECM I tell them NO! And I know the ECM will not be re-flashed by the dealer, since the OBDII port is locked closed.

[koller1509]

Originally Posted by MikeCarter57

I see all these posts with people saying they get more but my 2012 Ram 2500 4x4 with 6.7 cummins gets about 7 to 9 towing and 11 to 12 empty no matter what. I have had at the dealers many times complaining and having diagnostics done but they always tell that is normal so I call the factory and was told the same. of course, it is not chipped or anything it factory stock. So for all the people saying they get a lot more, all I can say is check your calculations if they are right you have an extremely rare truck and I would NEVER sell it.

No way!! that's on the low end of milage - I have a 3500 dually and get better then that unloaded!! I get 10-11 pulling a 43' 16000 pound trailer and 17-19 empty, and that is hand calculated and about normal for the cummins.

[koller1509]

Originally Posted by ENE

It's the fuel filter, thats why everyone that takes their RAM in service for that model and year will auto flash the computer and they all will lose 3mpg fuel.

Nope!!! I have had all the recalls done on mine and I have not seen any drop in MPG so I call BS on this one!!!

[ENE]

Ok it's the SCR filter my mistake. The point is still clear when the dealer refreshed the system every one lost about 3mpg. yes it is my 1st diesel and my friends that have the same truck also lost 3mpg when they had their trucks service. I keep good records on fuel consumption so far 32k pulling my trailer. I set my gauge mpg counters on every trip and I know what mpg I was average over a 2 year period and after the flash of the system by dealer I instantly lost 3mpg on my trips. I called the dealer and they refused to refresh it back. I called a couple truck 4X4 custom shops and they said they been selling more Chips for the engine every since Chrysler started the flashing the system to solve a problem.
The Chips I am referring are the ones you can program for better fuel mileage or more horse power. I didn't want to pay that kind of money.
Just completed a 1000 mile trip last week, there's another $50 in fuel down the drain from the flash.

[Lins]

Originally Posted by ENE

Ok it's the SCR filter my mistake. The point is still clear when the dealer refreshed the system every one lost about 3mpg. yes it is my 1st diesel and my friends that have the same truck also lost 3mpg when they had their trucks service. I keep good records on fuel consumption so far 32k pulling my trailer. I set my gauge mpg counters on every trip and I know what mpg I was average over a 2 year period and after the flash of the system by dealer I instantly lost 3mpg on my trips. I called the dealer and they refused to refresh it back. I called a couple truck 4X4 custom shops and they said they been selling more Chips for the engine every since Chrysler started the flashing the system to solve a problem.
The Chips I am referring are the ones you can program for better fuel mileage or more horse power. I didn't want to pay that kind of money.
Just completed a 1000 mile trip last week, there's another $50 in fuel down the drain from the flash.

Fuel wouldn’t clean the SCR either. Give the vehicle a chance to relearn after the reprogramming...

[ENE]

It's been 1 year and 9 months now. No change, all my friends RAM 2500 diesels same too.

[Lins]

Mine is getting great mileage on the highway, always has and is up to date on recalls

[ENE]

Here the info again:

Additionally, when FCA dealers attempt to fix the SCR system defect, they often simply “flash” the computer to prompt the truck to burn more fuel to clean the filter. When the computer in an affected Dodge RAM 2500 or 3500 is flashed, it causes the truck’s MPG to decline significantly.

If you own or lease a 2013-2017 Dodge RAM 2500 or 3500 with a 6.7-L Cummins diesel engine, you may be entitled to compensation for this defect that inhibits your car’s performance.

[Lins]

Originally Posted by ENE

Here the info again:

Additionally, when FCA dealers attempt to fix the SCR system defect, they often simply “flash” the computer to prompt the truck to burn more fuel to clean the filter. When the computer in an affected Dodge RAM 2500 or 3500 is flashed, it causes the truck’s MPG to decline significantly.

If you own or lease a 2013-2017 Dodge RAM 2500 or 3500 with a 6.7-L Cummins diesel engine, you may be entitled to compensation for this defect that inhibits your car’s performance.

The SCR uses DEF to reduce emissions, it has nothing to do with fuel. If you use more fuel, the SCR may use more DEF.

[koller1509]

Fuel goes in the DPF not SCR!!! def goes in SCR. That article was written by ambulance chasing lawyers who don't know the difference between a DPF and a SCR. As I stated earlier, I have had all recalls done and no change in mileage. Even if they changed the burn rate for diesel in the DPF you would only notice it when it was in regen.

[ENE]

Either way everyone can split hairs on every possible cause it is still clear when the dealer flash my computer me and my friends with the same truck lost 3mpg. Doesn't matter what part is involved.

[Lins]

Originally Posted by ENE

Either way everyone can split hairs on every possible cause it is still clear when the dealer flash my computer me and my friends with the same truck lost 3mpg. Doesn't matter what part is involved.

When was it at the dealer - the switch to winter fuel?

[ENE]

I live in Phoenix, it's always warm or hot here.