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Old 10-18-2021, 10:35 AM   #1
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RAM Cummins under investigation

Anyone driving a late model RAM Cummins may be interested in this.

No recall yet (that I know of) but the NHTSA is investigating RAM diesels for fuel pump/injector failures.

No model years reported in the report that I read but I know the 2018-2020 years used the Bosch CP4.2 injector that was/is such problem on the LML Duramax models. RAM went back to the CP3 pump for model year 2021.

https://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/...stall-80640087
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Old 10-18-2021, 11:48 AM   #2
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That's good to hear, from different Ram groups I'm on, it sounds like there are regular problems with these.
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Old 10-18-2021, 12:01 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by ependydad View Post
That's good to hear, from different Ram groups I'm on, it sounds like there are regular problems with these.
.S. safety regulators are investigating fuel pump failures in more than 600,000 diesel Ram trucks that could cause the engines to stall or lose power

The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration says in documents posted on its website Monday that it received 22 complaints and two field reports of engines stalling due to high-pressure fuel pumps failing. Agency documents say it has no reports of crashes or injuries.

600,000 X .00004 = 24
that is .004 % recorded failure rate.

not sticking up for Bosch or ram, but to me this does not sound like "regular problems for these"
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Old 10-18-2021, 12:40 PM   #4
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.S. safety regulators are investigating fuel pump failures in more than 600,000 diesel Ram trucks that could cause the engines to stall or lose power

The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration says in documents posted on its website Monday that it received 22 complaints and two field reports of engines stalling due to high-pressure fuel pumps failing. Agency documents say it has no reports of crashes or injuries.

600,000 X .00004 = 24
that is .004 % recorded failure rate.

not sticking up for Bosch or ram, but to me this does not sound like "regular problems for these"
I don't disagree with your math, but I can tell you it's something that occurs often enough that I noticed it. (shrug)
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Old 10-18-2021, 12:40 PM   #5
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As an owner of a 2019 CTD I'm member of several Ram truck forums and yes this was a "common" problem from fellow forum members. Lots of postings of 4.2 pumps coming apart and contaminating the entire fuel system. At one point some members that had this issue reported Ram wanted all fuel receipts as a way to weasel out of paying warranty.

It was common enough problem for Ram to go back to the older pump mid-model year 2020. Based solely on my observation if a pump failed it was early in it's life and since the switch I don't see recent posts about the 4.2 pump failing.
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Old 10-18-2021, 12:52 PM   #6
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.. and yes this was a "common" problem from fellow forum members.
Careful calling .004 % "common".
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Old 10-18-2021, 02:27 PM   #7
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The old GM 6.5 diesel had a pump driver module that was notorious for failing due to heat, and it would cause the truck to randomly shut off. I got good at doing the quick Neutral/key off/key on/restart/shift back to drive thing. I'm here to tell you, I'm a big guy, and dead-sticking a CC dually 3500 with no power brakes or power steering is not an easy thing.

I was on a 6.5 forum then and we petitioned the NHTSB to force GM to recall them, and they did an investigation, and concluded that there was not sufficient cause to recall them for just a "stalling issue".

Good luck.


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Old 10-18-2021, 03:25 PM   #8
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I left the ram world when I sold my 2018 (ordered late 2017) in fall of 2019. It was part of a trade that included our Truck, the 2016 arctic fox and the 2011 Open Range 5th wheel to switch to an MBS.


At that time I also stopped reading all the gloom and doom forums on the ram.


Guess I dodge another bullet? I also dodge a bullet on the one I started with which was one of the first 24 Valves in July 1998. I put 1 lift pumps on that in 4 years but never fried the VE pump. than my last one was a 2018 HO.
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Old 10-18-2021, 07:53 PM   #9
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There is nothing wrong with the Bosch 4.1 or the 4.2 fuel pump. This has been used in Europe since around 2008, if I remember correctly for the Diesel engines sold in Europe.

My wife’s 2011 VW TDI (Diesel) Jetta had 80,000 trouble free miles on the OD when we traded it in on a new SUV. This car had the Bosch 4.1 fuel pump installed on the engine. This is the same series pump only the 4.2 has two sections instead of just one section has the 4.1.

I did add Power Service diesel fuel treatment to the Diesel fuel every other fill up. Just like I have added to my Dodge truck which has the 6.7L Cummins in it. Another thing I told my wife is never let the fuel gage go below a 1/4 tank of remaining fuel. This is the same thing I do with my truck.

The problem is the poor quality of American’s diesel fuel in comparison to Europes diesel fuel. Not enough lubricity in the diesel fuel that is used in America.
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Old 10-18-2021, 08:04 PM   #10
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I dodged another bullet on that VW TDI with the pumpe duse engine. When I sold it at 60K the dual mass flywheel for the DFG transmission had an oscillation going when you started moving because the springs were getting ready to jump out, which meant they would go through the bell housing of the transmission. of course VW said "we don't warranty a clutch" even though it was an automatic clutch in front of an automatic dual input shaft transmission. Plus the cam was starting to get noisy even with Amsoil changes.


I do remember the next Gen VW having Bosch HP pumps that were failing. VW would take a fuel sample after the failed pump and show the customer "look, you have bad fuel" and void warranty, when in reality what you were looking at was the stuff that barfed out of the pump when it failed. never owned a VW since.
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Old 10-19-2021, 09:38 AM   #11
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This is more a monetary concern than a safety concern. This would help a lot of people faced with a large repair bill out of warranty due to the whole fuel system having to be replaced if it is deemed a safety issue.
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Old 10-19-2021, 05:10 PM   #12
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I see this discussed a lot on the forums but it is usually "I heard of" rather than "this happened to me". I think the major concern is the damage that occurs throughout the engine and not just the pump itself. I'm not expecting to see a recall. I wish I was.
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Old 10-20-2021, 07:12 AM   #13
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CP4 Pumps

The high pressure fuel pump problem is not just with Ram/Dodge, I am without my truck presently. My tow vehicle is a 2015 6.7 Powerstroke, I'm having to have the "catastrophic failure" kit installed! A very expensive, labor intensive service done to change out all the components of the fuel system. Began to get a low fuel pressure prompt on the information screen. Truck seemed to drive normally at the time, but took it in to have it checked. Left with a new low fuel pressure sensor. On the way home, same light came on! Again, truck seemed to drive normally, so I watched this for a few days. Returning to have it checked again, the bad news was discovered. This truck had 45K miles, shop had never seen this happen to such a low mileage truck. Did some research, and found out this information. The pumps Bosch make are not bad when used in the European setting ! Why ? Because European diesel has ~65 parts per million sulfur within the fuel. North American diesel has ~2-3 parts per million, or ULSD. Sulfer is a lubricity agent found within the fuel. So, when your fuel system is operating at 28K psi, lubricity is important! This is not the only problem, which was eluded to in an earlier post. Not letting your fuel tank get below 1/4 is another way to help prevent air bubbles from getting into the fuel that gets pumped into the rails under high pressure. Air within the fuel wears the pump and fuel injectors under high pressure. Finally, water is the third strike when looking at CP4 failure as it also will cause problems when under such high pressure. The lobes of the fuel pumps begin to wear and release fragments of metal into your fuel system, again, under 28K psi, which then contaminates all fuel system components, thus the reason for 100% replacement. Now, with all this said, how do you prevent this from happening? Well, this is what I did NOT know, and I suspect MOST diesel owners do not know. LUBRICITY MUST BE ADDED TO North American diesel fuel for any truck which has the CP4 - CP4.2. Most diesel additives don't have it! All 3 truck companies knew about this lubricity issue and the CP4 but did not pass this information on to the public. So, if you want to try and prevent your CP4 pump from destroying itself, you better check into the two brands of additives that have lubricity: Hot Shot Diesel EDT & Optilube XPD. These are the only 2 I know of currently. I was using Diesel Kleen on every tank of fuel in my truck, but it does not have lubricity as an additive. Sorry for the long post, but I think it is important. I wish someone had posted this sooner for me, this will cost me ~$10K to fix. Not he kind of thing you want to hear with a truck that has such low mileage, or even if I had 100K miles on my truck! Conclusion: if you have a diesel, take care of controlling the three things that kill your fuel system, WATER, AIR, & LACK OF LUBRICITY. Hope this can help someone before they discover a problem.
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Old 10-20-2021, 07:16 AM   #14
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Additive doesn’t necessarily prevent failure either. It’s just a bad all around design.
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Old 10-20-2021, 08:34 AM   #15
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. The pumps Bosch make are not bad when used in the European setting ! Why ? Because European diesel has ~65 parts per million sulfur within the fuel. North American diesel has ~2-3 parts per million, or ULSD. Sulfer is a lubricity agent found within the fuel.

Specs on European Diesel
2009.01: A maximum sulfur limit of 10 ppm (“sulfur-free”) for diesel fuel for highway vehicles


Specs on US Diesel
15 ppm: Diesel fuel of maximum sulfur level of 15 ppm was available for highway use beginning in June 2006.


direct comparison


another opinion related to CP4 (that supports lack of lubrication) and 7% failures in US vs 1% EU
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Old 10-20-2021, 08:54 AM   #16
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Specs on European Diesel
2009.01: A maximum sulfur limit of 10 ppm (“sulfur-free”) for diesel fuel for highway vehicles


Specs on US Diesel
15 ppm: Diesel fuel of maximum sulfur level of 15 ppm was available for highway use beginning in June 2006.


direct comparison


another opinion related to CP4 (that supports lack of lubrication) and 7% failures in US vs 1% EU
And why don't CP3's have the same issue...
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Old 10-20-2021, 09:22 AM   #17
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And why don't CP3's have the same issue...

Also I am reading that Ram started with the CP4 in model year 2019.


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Old 10-20-2021, 09:24 AM   #18
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And why don't CP3's have the same issue...
Watch this video. Very informative.
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Old 10-20-2021, 09:28 AM   #19
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[QUOTE=TowPro;2650401[/QUOTE]
Aw schucks. You beat me to it by as minute or so. Perhaps a mod can delete my post.
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Old 10-20-2021, 09:31 AM   #20
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Also I am reading that Ram started with the CP4 in model year 2019.


Quote:
Originally Posted by yukongold View Post
Watch this video. Very informative.
Thanks but I already knew the answer.
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