Reliable used 3/4 ton around $20,000?

[007matman]

Originally Posted by Bhrava

Something to be aware of today, the EPA is cracking down on companies that eliminate or modify Diesel systems. What that means is if you get a 6.0 Powerstroke, Bullet-proofing won't be as complete as it used to be. They can upgrade the head studs, and gaskets, but that's about it now. They cannot touch the EGR, nor can they modify the fuel delivery system. Plenty of companies that did this sort of thing have been heavily fined by the EPA in the past two years, so many are reluctant to do so. https://www.fairwarning.org/2020/09/...ions-controls/

Keep that in mind if you are looking at 03-10 F250/350 with the 6.0. Unless it has already had the work done, walk away.

Finding a decent truck for $20K will be difficult, even more difficult is finding a gas powered one since they are not as plentiful as the diesel, however, if you go diesel SKIP 3/4 ton and go directly to 1 ton so you have some actual payload.

Back in 2019 I started looking for a 1 ton diesel, and the pickins were slim even back then, and found the one I have now for $32K, It is a King Ranch with 131K on it, and has 137K on it now. I can easily turn around and sell it for close to what I paid for it in todays market.

This isn't just about the Ford, but all three makers are going for more than they should be. Good luck in your search.

Actually, Bulletproof Diesel makes a revised EGR cooler that's really good. The truck can be fully EPA compliant. That's how they're doing them now.

[Bhrava]

Originally Posted by 007matman

Actually, Bulletproof Diesel makes a revised EGR cooler that's really good. The truck can be fully EPA compliant. That's how they're doing them now.

As long as they concur with EPA Memo 1A

Probably going to look like crap since it came from a PDF, but from the EPA review.

In order to prevent and protect yourself from violations of the prohibitions on tampering and defeat devices, you should have in your records:Emission test results from tests conducted in accordance with EPA’s federal test procedure (FTP) showing that similar vehicles meet the standards for the vehicles’ useful livesGenerally, the testing required for a CARB EO is the same as the testing required under Memo 1A because the test procedures are usually the same
Vehicle must perform the same on-and off-cycle

So as long as they did the testing had have the system certified, then they are good.

[mokershner]

Read through most of the posts but wanted to pitch in. About 4 months ago I happened on the perfect truck for myself. 2016 Ford F-250 XLT SuperDuty, 4x4, 6.2 gasser, crew cab, 10K payload package, full tow package (trailer brake controller) , 6 3/4' bed, rear camera, etc, etc
Price was about $28k. Had some plastic cosmetics missing as well as some tree striping on the sides as well as other minor dents and dings. Fitted our needs perfectly. Pulls our 2011 Wolf Pack 19WP (7500 lbs) like a dream. Oh, it had 95k miles on it.

[007matman]

Originally Posted by Bhrava

As long as they concur with EPA Memo 1A

Probably going to look like crap since it came from a PDF, but from the EPA review.



So as long as they did the testing had have the system certified, then they are good.

https://bulletproofdiesel.com/pages/egr-delete-kits

It's a replacement upgrade part. They advertise themselves as the EPA compliant resource so I guess they better be.. the Fed Gov hasn't shut them down like they have almost everyone else so I'm guessing they are.

I think it's a pretty safe bet. There may be more info on the website.

[Bhrava]

Originally Posted by 007matman

https://bulletproofdiesel.com/pages/egr-delete-kits

It's a replacement upgrade part. They advertise themselves as the EPA compliant resource so I guess they better be.. the Fed Gov hasn't shut them down like they have almost everyone else so I'm guessing they are.

I think it's a pretty safe bet. There may be more info on the website.

I did check them out, its the cooler for the EGR, not the EGR itself, so there wouldn't be any need to have testing done. Always good to have better cooling. If they replaced the entire EGR system, then they would have to go through the testing and certifications, but in this case, not needed.

OTOH, I found out after buying my F350 that it had a full delete done on it, something I didn't even consider to look for. I drove it, it drove good and I knew it needed tires and shocks, and it wasn't until a few weeks later that I discovered it had a full delete when I started doing a full cleaning and found the tuner behind the back seat. When I looked at the engine at the dealer, I didn't know what if anything was missing, but once I did a full under and over look I found an EGR delete was done, and looked up what the exhaust system was supposed to look like and found out, that it is not a 5" round pipe. My last truck was a 99 Dually and it had a 5" exhaust so to me it looked normal, haven't had a diesel since the 99. I thought it was illegal for a dealer to sell a deleted truck or to take one in trade, and didn't even think it would be, so someone dropped the ball. Been a year and a half since I bought it, so I doubt there is anything I can do.

[007matman]

Originally Posted by Bhrava

I did check them out, its the cooler for the EGR, not the EGR itself, so there wouldn't be any need to have testing done. Always good to have better cooling. If they replaced the entire EGR system, then they would have to go through the testing and certifications, but in this case, not needed.

OTOH, I found out after buying my F350 that it had a full delete done on it, something I didn't even consider to look for. I drove it, it drove good and I knew it needed tires and shocks, and it wasn't until a few weeks later that I discovered it had a full delete when I started doing a full cleaning and found the tuner behind the back seat. When I looked at the engine at the dealer, I didn't know what if anything was missing, but once I did a full under and over look I found an EGR delete was done, and looked up what the exhaust system was supposed to look like and found out, that it is not a 5" round pipe. My last truck was a 99 Dually and it had a 5" exhaust so to me it looked normal, haven't had a diesel since the 99. I thought it was illegal for a dealer to sell a deleted truck or to take one in trade, and didn't even think it would be, so someone dropped the ball. Been a year and a half since I bought it, so I doubt there is anything I can do.

It's a personal preference. I think I'd rather have mine deleted. something about the truck sucking on its own exhaust that doesn't sound efficient to me.

Diesels are exempt in my state from testing. I'm gonna bet that most have had their trucks deleted.

[kevintuel]

Hi, i agree w/ the other person - it will be very difficult to find a 3/4 ton for 20k w/ the comforts you are looking for. I like diesels but you pay more for them so gas is probably your best bet. The ford ecoboost engine has a good towing capacity and should pull the weights you listed just fine.




Just looking for some used truck advice. We can't spend $50K or more on one, so just wanted to see what other options are out there. So, here are the details.

The trailer will be an on order Rockwood Mini Lite 2509S, 26 ft, dry weight 5500 lbs, 7000 gross. We have a 2nd vehicle for around town, but I would like to use this for both. Down the road, we don't see ourselves getting anything larger than a 30 ft trailer. Cargo and passengers will be 900-1500 lbs. After reading a bunch of posts I'm leaning toward a used 3/4 ton. Budget is $20-$30K. I'm not mechanically inclined so if it needs any work, I'll be taking it in. We will be towing it 20-30 times a year, doing 100-500 mile trips around our home base of Oregon. I haven't decided on gas vs diesel, but leaning toward gas. I do appreciate some creature comforts and newer tech, like trailer hitch view camera, heated seats, and bluetooth, but I don't need a moon roof or most of the newer safety tech, although trailer blind spot monitoring sounds nice. It needs to be crew cab, 4x4. Please help me filter down my search. For each make/model you suggest, please provide the following;

1. Range of years I should search for
2. Engine type (gas or diesel, displacement), people seem to like the Ford 6.2, but I'm sure there are others
3. Mileage to stay under
4. Trim levels, packages, options you consider important for towing

Thanks for any advice.[/QUOTE]

[Bogieboy]

Originally Posted by Bhrava

Something to be aware of today, the EPA is cracking down on companies that eliminate or modify Diesel systems. What that means is if you get a 6.0 Powerstroke, Bullet-proofing won't be as complete as it used to be. They can upgrade the head studs, and gaskets, but that's about it now. They cannot touch the EGR, nor can they modify the fuel delivery system. Plenty of companies that did this sort of thing have been heavily fined by the EPA in the past two years, so many are reluctant to do so. https://www.fairwarning.org/2020/09/...ions-controls/

Keep that in mind if you are looking at 03-10 F250/350 with the 6.0. Unless it has already had the work done, walk away.

Finding a decent truck for $20K will be difficult, even more difficult is finding a gas powered one since they are not as plentiful as the diesel, however, if you go diesel SKIP 3/4 ton and go directly to 1 ton so you have some actual payload.

Back in 2019 I started looking for a 1 ton diesel, and the pickins were slim even back then, and found the one I have now for $32K, It is a King Ranch with 131K on it, and has 137K on it now. I can easily turn around and sell it for close to what I paid for it in todays market.

This isn't just about the Ford, but all three makers are going for more than they should be. Good luck in your search.

they switched to the 6.4 in 08, but it has similar issues..., so it would still apply...

what year king ranch? we just got a 2008 crew cab 4x4 for $26k with 106k miles.

[GPs37FLH]

Originally Posted by dannybye

Here is a link to a true best buy for a 3/4 ton truck. https://www.cargurus.com/Cars/l-Used...ting=298098325
I wanted new. For $14,800 you won't find a better buy for a workhorse!

Yeah, that's a really good deal on that one. And, that IS a workhorse of a truck too!

[GPs37FLH]

Originally Posted by 007matman

It's a personal preference. I think I'd rather have mine deleted. something about the truck sucking on its own exhaust that doesn't sound efficient to me.

Diesels are exempt in my state from testing. I'm gonna bet that most have had their trucks deleted.

Diesels are exempt in NC as well. However, with the new Administration, it's not impossible that new EPA environmental emissions standards could change in your state and mine. Hate it, but it's not unreasonable to think it's possible.

That said, my F-350 is not deleted, although I'd been considering it in the past. Now, I'm inclined to leave it, as is. Don't want to have to go backwards from a deleted exhaust system.

The diesel shop I use is excellent and all their mechanics are Ford Certified. Being a Ford Certified shop, they only use 3-year warranty FoMoCo parts on any repair or bullet-proofing jobs they do, so they don't have to worry about their parts being EPA compliant, as do other bullet-proofing parts suppliers.

[Bhrava]

Originally Posted by Bogieboy

they switched to the 6.4 in 08, but it has similar issues..., so it would still apply...

what year king ranch? we just got a 2008 crew cab 4x4 for $26k with 106k miles.

Ours is a 2012. A real beast of a machine too. First is rather low, so it feels a bit lethargic on acceleration with a light pedal, but if you ask it to go, it takes off like it got shot off a catapult. One tie towing the 5th I gave it too much juice from a stop and spun the tires across the intersection not good for the tires or truck.

Originally Posted by GPs37FLH

Diesels are exempt in NC as well. However, with the new Administration, it's not impossible that new EPA environmental emissions standards could change in your state and mine. Hate it, but it's not unreasonable to think it's possible.

That said, my F-350 is not deleted, although I'd been considering it in the past. Now, I'm inclined to leave it, as is. Don't want to have to go backwards from a deleted exhaust system.

The diesel shop I use is excellent and all their mechanics are Ford Certified. Being a Ford Certified shop, they only use 3-year warranty FoMoCo parts on any repair or bullet-proofing jobs they do, so they don't have to worry about their parts being EPA compliant, as do other bullet-proofing parts suppliers.

No testing in my county, but there is where I bought it. One thing is certain, EPA is going after companies that make exhaust systems to replace the DPF systems, and tuners won't even go near them anymore, so deleting a diesel now is black market stuff. Won't be long until you won't be able to find diesel exhaust systems for late model trucks.

Latest I heard is if a factory engine is used for racing, or off road events, it MUST comply with EPA regulations, meaning it has to have all the emissions components on it that would normally be on the car or truck it was installed in.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bvuiut8iQIM

[Eric H.]

Originally Posted by jaycle

Hey folks;

Just looking for some used truck advice. We can't spend $50K or more on one, so just wanted to see what other options are out there. So, here are the details.

The trailer will be an on order Rockwood Mini Lite 2509S, 26 ft, dry weight 5500 lbs, 7000 gross. We have a 2nd vehicle for around town, but I would like to use this for both. Down the road, we don't see ourselves getting anything larger than a 30 ft trailer. Cargo and passengers will be 900-1500 lbs. After reading a bunch of posts I'm leaning toward a used 3/4 ton. Budget is $20-$30K. I'm not mechanically inclined so if it needs any work, I'll be taking it in. We will be towing it 20-30 times a year, doing 100-500 mile trips around our home base of Oregon. I haven't decided on gas vs diesel, but leaning toward gas. I do appreciate some creature comforts and newer tech, like trailer hitch view camera, heated seats, and bluetooth, but I don't need a moon roof or most of the newer safety tech, although trailer blind spot monitoring sounds nice. It needs to be crew cab, 4x4. Please help me filter down my search. For each make/model you suggest, please provide the following;

1. Range of years I should search for
2. Engine type (gas or diesel, displacement), people seem to like the Ford 6.2, but I'm sure there are others
3. Mileage to stay under
4. Trim levels, packages, options you consider important for towing

Thanks for any advice.

Keep in mind that the kind of towing you mention is an average of 7500 miles a year and that's just the towing part. You have a trailer on order so chances are it will be a while before you trade up to that 30 footer you mention. How many miles will your used tow rig have then and now which is a better choice? An older diesel with less tech or a newer gas with the tech? Many diesel engines are getting due for injectors around 150k but many gassers are due for replacement at that point and the rest of the diesel is not even at it's half life. Unless your talking Ford 6.0 lol. Dodge/Cummins has fewer cylinders and the straight 6 is way easier to work on and less complicated than the V8 diesels in my opinion. I've owned Ford's 6.3 and 6.0 PS diesels and I currently own Cummins 5.9L 260K miles and 6.7L with 160K. Modern gas motors have little tiny valves that don't hold up well to high mileage towing heavy weights in my opinion and the thought of a high mileage ecoboost towing a 30' trailer would nuts. I've been a mechanic for a long time.

[Dan50]

Originally Posted by 1100mike

Ford hasn't used glow plugs since the 90's. The majority of hot shot trucks pulling new travel trailers, out of Indiana manufacturers, are driving Ram trucks..

I am afraid you are wrong about Ford not using glow plugs since the 90s. My 2002 had them and they have them at least until 2019.

[Bhrava]

Originally Posted by Dan50

I am afraid you are wrong about Ford not using glow plugs since the 90s. My 2002 had them and they have them at least until 2019.

Correct, the 6.7 Powerstroke does use Glowplugs.

Those are 2012 -19, 2020+ use a different type since the 2020+ has been updated.

[richardbrucewinquestjr]

Originally Posted by Germanrazor

Hmmmmm.......late model well maintained used trucks cost as much as new. You may be in a conundrum there my friend. Trucks are in demand and people are paying a premium. In fact, trucks for well over a decade for a well maintained one has been rather expensive even prior to Covid creating shortages.

Was like that 30 years ago with my Harleys, I could have gotten a premium over the original purchase prices and they held lottery’s for a number of years for new bikes.

[007matman]

Originally Posted by Eric H.

Keep in mind that the kind of towing you mention is an average of 7500 miles a year and that's just the towing part. You have a trailer on order so chances are it will be a while before you trade up to that 30 footer you mention. How many miles will your used tow rig have then and now which is a better choice? An older diesel with less tech or a newer gas with the tech? Many diesel engines are getting due for injectors around 150k but many gassers are due for replacement at that point and the rest of the diesel is not even at it's half life. Unless your talking Ford 6.0 lol. Dodge/Cummins has fewer cylinders and the straight 6 is way easier to work on and less complicated than the V8 diesels in my opinion. I've owned Ford's 6.3 and 6.0 PS diesels and I currently own Cummins 5.9L 260K miles and 6.7L with 160K. Modern gas motors have little tiny valves that don't hold up well to high mileage towing heavy weights in my opinion and the thought of a high mileage ecoboost towing a 30' trailer would nuts. I've been a mechanic for a long time.

Hmm.. never heard of a 6.3 PS.. not something that Ford made in mass quantity anyway. They made a 6.4 and now the 6.7.

Truth is the later model 6.0 has three or four major issues all of which have been discussed in this thread previously. Oil/EGR cooler, High Pressure Oil Pump, and Head Gaskets. All of which can be easily addressed through upgraded parts and still meet emissions requirements.

Properly built, a 6.0 is just as reliable as a 6.7 or a 7.3. if you don't believe it, head on over to some of the Powerstroke forums and talk to them. Plenty of examples out there of 6.0's w/400-500k plus.

[Eric H.]

Originally Posted by 007matman

Hmm.. never heard of a 6.3 PS.. not something that Ford made in mass quantity anyway. They made a 6.4 and now the 6.7.

Truth is the later model 6.0 has three or four major issues all of which have been discussed in this thread previously. Oil/EGR cooler, High Pressure Oil Pump, and Head Gaskets. All of which can be easily addressed through upgraded parts and still meet emissions requirements.

Properly built, a 6.0 is just as reliable as a 6.7 or a 7.3. if you don't believe it, head on over to some of the Powerstroke forums and talk to them. Plenty of examples out there of 6.0's w/400-500k plus.

Yah that was a fat finger mistake that should have said 7.3L. There is nothing easy or cheap about making a 6.0 reliable. Yes you can do it with an extensive list of expensive parts and a lot of labor. There always the die hards that will argue how great they are once you fix all the problems lol.

Everything has the potential to be great once you fix all of the design flaws.

[Joe-Barb]

We got a 2013 Ram 2500 megacab 4x4 hemi 5.7 and toed a 2013 Rockwood 2608ws total length30' for 7 years without any problems all over the USA and over every mountain range around 50,000 towing mileage. Have around 72,000 on truck. We have graduated to a motor home this past year and thought about selling truck and getting smaller car for a toad but liked the Ram so much that we decided to keep the truck and use it as the toad. The person that said that rams had transmission problems may not be correct. I have had 2 dodge trucks and never had trans problems. I know several people that had Chevy or GMC pickups that trans problems. Exp.1 neighbor had an avalanche had to replace 2 tranny's another a Chevy surburban replaced tranny. Just saying.

[Eric H.]

Originally Posted by Joe-Barb

We got a 2013 Ram 2500 megacab 4x4 hemi 5.7 and toed a 2013 Rockwood 2608ws total length30' for 7 years without any problems all over the USA and over every mountain range around 50,000 towing mileage. Have around 72,000 on truck. We have graduated to a motor home this past year and thought about selling truck and getting smaller car for a toad but liked the Ram so much that we decided to keep the truck and use it as the toad. The person that said that rams had transmission problems may not be correct. I have had 2 dodge trucks and never had trans problems. I know several people that had Chevy or GMC pickups that trans problems. Exp.1 neighbor had an avalanche had to replace 2 tranny's another a Chevy surburban replaced tranny. Just saying.

Dodge 47, 48 & 68RE transmissions have definitely had their share of overdrive problems but so has Ford and GMC unless your talking about the Allison.

[Eric H.]

Originally Posted by 007matman

Actually, Bulletproof Diesel makes a revised EGR cooler that's really good. The truck can be fully EPA compliant. That's how they're doing them now.

The part alone is just shy of $1k and is labor intensive to replace. Coolant flush and replace is required then so thermostat too probably. So yah, Bullet proof EGR will run you around $2k at a shop and that's only one of the weak links.