Free 7 Day Trial RV GPS App RV Trip Planner Campground Reviews RV Maintenance Free 7 Day Trial ×


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 02-23-2021, 01:51 PM   #1
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: Raleigh, NC
Posts: 226
Replacement 5th Wheel Pin Box

Last year I picked up a FR Sabre 37FLH 5'er from Campingworld and am pretty happy with it so far. This is, by far, the longest (42ft+) and heaviest (12K lbs dry) RV I've ever owned, however, it's not my first RV nor first 5'er.

On my way home from the dealership to NC, I traveled over some pretty rough Virginia I95 bridges that caused significant bucking and chucking, even when slowing down below the speed limits.

When I got home, I found a cotter pin that clipped onto the B&W Companion hitch head pin that attaches to the main body of the hitch sheared off. The cotter pin was gone and the hitch head pin slipped out of the right side slot. Without it, I had no problem lifting the right side of the hitch head off the hitch. Luckily, there was no damage to the pins on the left side of the hitch and it stayed in place, but it scared the ba-jesus outta me.

To fix this, I immediately installed larger gauge replacement cotter pins and now check more closely the entire hitch before towing this RV anywhere. However, I also want to reduce the future wear and tear of bucking and chucking on the RV, hitch and my truck with a better pin box than the standard Lippert 1621 that came with it.

Any recommendations from those out there that've upgraded their pin boxes? How much less bucking and chucking did you experience since upgrading?

Looking at upgrading to the MorRyde Rubber Pin Box as one solution.
__________________
2020 Forest River Sabre 37FLH
2013 Ford F-350 XL Crew Cab 6.7L Diesel DRW
Tulip, the Wonder-Shepherd
GPs37FLH is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-24-2021, 07:52 AM   #2
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: Raleigh, NC
Posts: 226
Does any 5th wheel owners out there have an upgraded pin box?
__________________
2020 Forest River Sabre 37FLH
2013 Ford F-350 XL Crew Cab 6.7L Diesel DRW
Tulip, the Wonder-Shepherd
GPs37FLH is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-24-2021, 08:39 AM   #3
Moderator Emeritus
 
acadianbob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: St. Paul, Minnesota
Posts: 3,207
I've got the MorRyde being installed this week. No experience with it yet; obviously. It gets very good reviews.

But, your issue seems more related to the hitch. Pin box should cause your hitch failure.
__________________
https://i421.photobucket.com/albums/pp297/acadianbob/IMG_2757.jpg
2018 F250 Lariat 6.2 4X4 w 4.30s, 2018 Wildcat 29RLX
2012 BMW G650GS, Demco Premiere Slider
1969 John Deere 1020, 1940 Ford 9N, 1948 Ford 8N
Jonsered 535, Can of WD-40, Duct Tape
Red Green coffee mugs
acadianbob is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-24-2021, 09:18 AM   #4
Senior Member
 
Jim34RL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Oswego il
Posts: 2,172
On my second 5er, I replaced the standard Lippert pin box 1621 with a Trailair pin box. Here is a link to E-trailer.com that will allow you to pick the correct Trailair pin box to replace the Lippert 1621 hitch. This will match the Lippert pin box dimension for a direct replacement.
https://www.etrailer.com/dept-pg-Fif...spx?Redirect=1

For my current 5er I ordered directly from the Cedar Creek factory for the Trailair pin box to be installed.

For "Chucking" the hitch might be needed to be replaced also. I have found on some hitches that the jaws that clamp around the kingpin have a slight gap, thus chucking can occur. This is to allow the trailer to pivot, since the head does not pivot. At least this was the way my Reese slider hitch worked.

I replace the Reese Hitch with a 18K Demco Glide Hitch. The head on the Demco pivots which allows for a tight fit of the kingpin around the jaws. No more chucking at all since I replaced the hitch.
__________________
Jim W.
2016 34RL CC; 2008 Ram Mega Cab 2500HD, 6.7L, 68RFE 6 speed, 4X4, Smarty S67, TDR 135K+miles
Jim34RL is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-24-2021, 09:44 AM   #5
Pickin', Campin', Mason
 
5picker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: South Western PA
Posts: 13,805
Quote:
Originally Posted by GPs37FLH View Post
Last year I picked up a FR Sabre 37FLH 5'er from Campingworld and am pretty happy with it so far. This is, by far, the longest (42ft+) and heaviest (12K lbs dry) RV I've ever owned, however, it's not my first RV nor first 5'er.

On my way home from the dealership to NC, I traveled over some pretty rough Virginia I95 bridges that caused significant bucking and chucking, even when slowing down below the speed limits.

When I got home, I found a cotter pin that clipped onto the B&W Companion hitch head pin that attaches to the main body of the hitch sheared off. The cotter pin was gone and the hitch head pin slipped out of the right side slot. Without it, I had no problem lifting the right side of the hitch head off the hitch. Luckily, there was no damage to the pins on the left side of the hitch and it stayed in place, but it scared the ba-jesus outta me.

To fix this, I immediately installed larger gauge replacement cotter pins and now check more closely the entire hitch before towing this RV anywhere. However, I also want to reduce the future wear and tear of bucking and chucking on the RV, hitch and my truck with a better pin box than the standard Lippert 1621 that came with it.

Any recommendations from those out there that've upgraded their pin boxes? How much less bucking and chucking did you experience since upgrading?

Looking at upgrading to the MorRyde Rubber Pin Box as one solution.
I have to wonder if you have/had something else going on?

First, with a 5th wheel that heavy, it should have significant pin weight that when traveling, it should never be lifting the pin box off the hitch plate. Especially enough to cause the attaching pins on a B&W Companion to shear any cotter pin. Those must have been some terribly rough roads and/or your speed was more than you indicated.

I had several different brand hitches before I purchased the B&W Companion and there is no comparison. The B&W is head and shoulders above the others I had for holding the pin tightly in the jaws and helping with chucking.

The B&W has Poly bushings where the head attaches/sits onto the base (where those pins go in you mentioned) and that helps absorb some chucking too. It also has a plate shock absorber for side to side movement.

Have you removed the hitch head and inspected those bushing and do you have them lubed per the instructions?

Not that I would but with most 5th wheel pin weights, you theoretically could remove those head attaching pins and the retaining cotter pins on the B&W and it wouldn't lift off of the base going down the road.

Is your ride height OK?

__________________
_________________________________________
2016 Flagstaff 8529IKBS Diamond Package 5th Wheel-Goodyear Endurance Tires
2017 Ford F-Series SCREW 4x4 - Factory Puck B&W Companion
TST Tire Monitor w/Repeater - Sinemate 3500w Gen.

Days Camped: '18=51 '19=58 '20=110 '21=94
5picker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-24-2021, 09:45 AM   #6
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: Raleigh, NC
Posts: 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by acadianbob View Post
I've got the MorRyde being installed this week. No experience with it yet; obviously. It gets very good reviews.

But, your issue seems more related to the hitch. Pin box should cause your hitch failure.
Bob, what pin box did you have on your 5'er before the MorRyde? Also, what made you decide to upgrade from the one you currently have?
__________________
2020 Forest River Sabre 37FLH
2013 Ford F-350 XL Crew Cab 6.7L Diesel DRW
Tulip, the Wonder-Shepherd
GPs37FLH is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-24-2021, 09:55 AM   #7
Tundra 2014
 
Join Date: May 2018
Location: Texas
Posts: 1,076
Pin box

Trying to decide between the MorRyde and the Trailer Rotoscoped-Flex. Has anyone had experience w/ one of these and have any recommendations? Thanks
Tundra 2014 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-24-2021, 10:05 AM   #8
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: Raleigh, NC
Posts: 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by 5picker View Post
I have to wonder if you have/had something else going on?

First, with a 5th wheel that heavy, it should have significant pin weight that when traveling, it should never be lifting the pin box off the hitch plate. Especially enough to cause the attaching pins on a B&W Companion to shear any cotter pin. Those must have been some terribly rough roads and/or your speed was more than you indicated.

I had several different brand hitches before I purchased the B&W Companion and there is no comparison. The B&W is head and shoulders above the others I had for holding the pin tightly in the jaws and helping with chucking.

The B&W has rubberized bushings where the head attaches/sits onto the base (where those pins go in you mentioned) and that helps absorb some chucking too.

Have you removed the hitch head and inspected those bushing and do you have them lubed per the instructions?

Not that I would but with most 5th wheel pin weights, you theoretically could remove those head attaching pins and the retaining cotter pins on the B&W and it wouldn't lift off of the base going down the road.

Is your ride height OK?


First off, thank you 5picker!

You're correct the road transitions to the bridge surface, then back to the road surface were really bad on at least two or three I went over. 70mph speed limit on this interstate. Unfortunately, there was no advanced warning of this and was doing between 70 and 75 when going over the first bridge. It was that first bridge where there was enough of a drop off that I think caused the cotter pin to shear off and then the head pin came out. I got lots more cautious and slowed to 65 when approaching the remainder of bridges I encountered in VA. Didn't have any issues with the bridges in NC and was a smooth drive the rest of the way.

I did do a breakdown of the hitch to inspect everything and the only damage was the missing cotter pin. Found part of it in the bed of the truck. Didn't find any other issues with the hitch. I have NOT lubricated the bushings since I've owned it and did not know that maintenance needs to be done. What have you used to lubricate the bushings and how often do you do it?

The ride height seems to be good, but not sure how to confirm that. My F-350 is a stock unit with no lifters or non-standard rims and tires, so it sits pretty low to the ground and the RV looks level when hitched (weight on rear tires seem to be equally distributed).
__________________
2020 Forest River Sabre 37FLH
2013 Ford F-350 XL Crew Cab 6.7L Diesel DRW
Tulip, the Wonder-Shepherd
GPs37FLH is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-24-2021, 10:16 AM   #9
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: Raleigh, NC
Posts: 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tundra 2014 View Post
Trying to decide between the MorRyde and the Trailer Rotoscoped-Flex. Has anyone had experience w/ one of these and have any recommendations? Thanks

I looked at the Trailair Rota-Flex too, but it didn't seem to me to be as beefy as the MorRyde in giving me a noticeably smoother towing experience. Haven't seen as many of them out there as the Flex-Air and MorRyde models, but I'm simply not paying what they want for the Flex-Air pin box.
__________________
2020 Forest River Sabre 37FLH
2013 Ford F-350 XL Crew Cab 6.7L Diesel DRW
Tulip, the Wonder-Shepherd
GPs37FLH is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-24-2021, 10:21 AM   #10
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: Raleigh, NC
Posts: 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim34RL View Post
On my second 5er, I replaced the standard Lippert pin box 1621 with a Trailair pin box. Here is a link to E-trailer.com that will allow you to pick the correct Trailair pin box to replace the Lippert 1621 hitch. This will match the Lippert pin box dimension for a direct replacement.
https://www.etrailer.com/dept-pg-Fif...spx?Redirect=1

For my current 5er I ordered directly from the Cedar Creek factory for the Trailair pin box to be installed.

For "Chucking" the hitch might be needed to be replaced also. I have found on some hitches that the jaws that clamp around the kingpin have a slight gap, thus chucking can occur. This is to allow the trailer to pivot, since the head does not pivot. At least this was the way my Reese slider hitch worked.

I replace the Reese Hitch with a 18K Demco Glide Hitch. The head on the Demco pivots which allows for a tight fit of the kingpin around the jaws. No more chucking at all since I replaced the hitch.

Jim, when you replaced your 1621 with the Trailair Roto-Flex, how much did it help with the ride, in your opinion? Was it worth the expense and effort to install it?

Thank you!
__________________
2020 Forest River Sabre 37FLH
2013 Ford F-350 XL Crew Cab 6.7L Diesel DRW
Tulip, the Wonder-Shepherd
GPs37FLH is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-24-2021, 12:50 PM   #11
Pickin', Campin', Mason
 
5picker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: South Western PA
Posts: 13,805
Quote:
Originally Posted by GPs37FLH View Post
First off, thank you 5picker!

You're correct the road transitions to the bridge surface, then back to the road surface were really bad on at least two or three I went over. 70mph speed limit on this interstate. Unfortunately, there was no advanced warning of this and was doing between 70 and 75 when going over the first bridge. It was that first bridge where there was enough of a drop off that I think caused the cotter pin to shear off and then the head pin came out. I got lots more cautious and slowed to 65 when approaching the remainder of bridges I encountered in VA. Didn't have any issues with the bridges in NC and was a smooth drive the rest of the way.

I did do a breakdown of the hitch to inspect everything and the only damage was the missing cotter pin. Found part of it in the bed of the truck. Didn't find any other issues with the hitch. I have NOT lubricated the bushings since I've owned it and did not know that maintenance needs to be done. What have you used to lubricate the bushings and how often do you do it?

The ride height seems to be good, but not sure how to confirm that. My F-350 is a stock unit with no lifters or non-standard rims and tires, so it sits pretty low to the ground and the RV looks level when hitched (weight on rear tires seem to be equally distributed).
Mine came with a packet of B&W branded grease that appears to just be white lithium grease.

My instructions said a little dab will do 'ya and I do that about twice a year. You may need to do more often if your hitch isn't covered when not in use. My truck is a daily driver but covered by the tonneau cover when not towing or the hitch removed for hauling.

If your 5th wheel rides level when hitched and you have adequate clearance at the bed rails (usually 5-6") then you should be good.
__________________
_________________________________________
2016 Flagstaff 8529IKBS Diamond Package 5th Wheel-Goodyear Endurance Tires
2017 Ford F-Series SCREW 4x4 - Factory Puck B&W Companion
TST Tire Monitor w/Repeater - Sinemate 3500w Gen.

Days Camped: '18=51 '19=58 '20=110 '21=94
5picker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-24-2021, 01:21 PM   #12
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: Raleigh, NC
Posts: 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by 5picker View Post
Mine came with a packet of B&W branded grease that appears to just be white lithium grease.

My instructions said a little dab will do 'ya and I do that about twice a year. You may need to do more often if your hitch isn't covered when not in use. My truck is a daily driver but covered by the tonneau cover when not towing or the hitch removed for hauling.

If your 5th wheel rides level when hitched and you have adequate clearance at the bed rails (usually 5-6") then you should be good.


I found a YouTube hitch maintenance video on B&W's website. You're correct that its just white lithium grease they use. They recommend to do it monthly if you're towing frequently, or once per six months if towing occasionally, which is what I am. There's also a grease zerk on the opposite side of the pin clamping jaws to attach a grease gun and they recommend greasing all around the clamping jaws as well. I'm sure there's plenty of folks in these forums who aren't aware of regular hitch maintenance that should be performed. Who would've guessed it?

I also have a hard tonneau, so my hitch is not exposed to the elements very often either. Never the less, I'm adding this maintenance routine going forward, and again, I thank you very much for that info.

And, I'm pretty sure I have at least a six inch clearance (if not a couple more) to the bed rails of the truck. I've yet to encounter any terrain or roads so far with this 5'er where I've even come close to hitting them.
__________________
2020 Forest River Sabre 37FLH
2013 Ford F-350 XL Crew Cab 6.7L Diesel DRW
Tulip, the Wonder-Shepherd
GPs37FLH is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-24-2021, 02:10 PM   #13
Senior Member
 
Jack350's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Central New York
Posts: 277
I am happy with my AUH but was watching video on the GenZ product line. You may want to look into these since they are designed to alleviate some of the symptoms described here. The pin replacements addressed above may not give the results needed. I would like to hear from others who use or have looked into the GenZ line of hitches. There are two models to replace just the pin, or another that works like a goosebox hitch to be used instead of a hitch.
__________________
2017 Open Range RES 347, 2017 F-350 4X4 LWB 6.7.
Hayes Autoformer, Moryde SRE 4000, Sailun Tires, Andersen Aluminum hitch.

Jack350 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-24-2021, 02:41 PM   #14
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 47
I wanted to replace stock pin on a overall 30' Laredo fiver. I tried 3 Trailair Rota-flex units, all were wider than the box, which was exactly 12". I was offered what was then Trailair LO5, double air bag and one shock. Fit right in and really made a difference. I liked it so well when trading for a smaller unit, I insisted on keeping it for the deal.
boatcat AH6NR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-24-2021, 03:19 PM   #15
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: Raleigh, NC
Posts: 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by boatcat AH6NR View Post
I wanted to replace stock pin on a overall 30' Laredo fiver. I tried 3 Trailair Rota-flex units, all were wider than the box, which was exactly 12". I was offered what was then Trailair LO5, double air bag and one shock. Fit right in and really made a difference. I liked it so well when trading for a smaller unit, I insisted on keeping it for the deal.

thanks, boatcat! Although my original issue was hitch related, I'm planning to upgrade my pin box with one that has some kind of shock absorbing features to improve my towing experience too, even if its only marginally better. However, I think its going to be a more than marginal difference because of the size and weight of my unit. I figure a better pin box, like the MorRyde, has got to lessen the wear and tear on the hitch, plus on my truck and the RV itself.

With how much the Trailair models with air bags and shocks cost, I'd have taken it with me too had I owned one. It's probably the best pin box out there for helping to achieve the smoothest towing experience possible. It's just hard for me to digest paying twice the price for one, unless someone convinces me otherwise.
__________________
2020 Forest River Sabre 37FLH
2013 Ford F-350 XL Crew Cab 6.7L Diesel DRW
Tulip, the Wonder-Shepherd
GPs37FLH is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-24-2021, 04:14 PM   #16
Senior Member
 
Blaster 84's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 325
I would also suggest that you consider a different hitch to reduce stress in that area. When I got tired of the constant chucking I changed to a Trailer Saver by Hensley Mfg. It has dual airbags and shock absorbers. Problem solved.
When looking at the RV in the rear view mirrors I can see it moving up and down in relation to the truck and I don't feel it at all.
I bought this when I had our last fifth wheel and now am able to use it now for our current fifth wheel.
It's a heavy hitch, but I am very satisfied and at this point wouldn't consider anything else.
__________________
2020 F250, 7.3 gas, Cedar Creek 29RE
Nights camped:
2013 - 180, 2014 - 57, 2015 - 91, 2016 - 171, 2017 - 107, 2018 - 21, 2019 - 65
Blaster 84 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-24-2021, 04:33 PM   #17
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2019
Posts: 73
I agree with Blaster 84
I've had my TS3 since 2006 and would never go back to a solid mount hitch again.
BM Welder is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-24-2021, 05:06 PM   #18
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: Raleigh, NC
Posts: 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blaster 84 View Post
I would also suggest that you consider a different hitch to reduce stress in that area. When I got tired of the constant chucking I changed to a Trailer Saver by Hensley Mfg. It has dual airbags and shock absorbers. Problem solved.
When looking at the RV in the rear view mirrors I can see it moving up and down in relation to the truck and I don't feel it at all.
I bought this when I had our last fifth wheel and now am able to use it now for our current fifth wheel.
It's a heavy hitch, but I am very satisfied and at this point wouldn't consider anything else.

thanks blaster! I could replace the B&W Companion with something like that (nice big air bags on the TS3!), but not confident it'll do much more to smooth out the ride than what the Companion is doing already. Mine has polyurethane bushings, and an articulating hitch head that is supposed to provide the smoothest tow available. Plus, this one has wrap around jaws keeping the pin from moving and shock absorbers on the plate, so the bucking and chucking should be kept to a minimum.

Some of the higher end 5'er hitches are so expensive and wish there was a way to try before buying one. I already have well over $2,500 into the B&W on my truck now and kinda reluctant to throw all that away, if possible.
__________________
2020 Forest River Sabre 37FLH
2013 Ford F-350 XL Crew Cab 6.7L Diesel DRW
Tulip, the Wonder-Shepherd
GPs37FLH is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-24-2021, 06:12 PM   #19
Senior Member
 
old40ford's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 571
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim34RL View Post
On my second 5er, I replaced the standard Lippert pin box 1621 with a Trailair pin box. Here is a link to E-trailer.com that will allow you to pick the correct Trailair pin box to replace the Lippert 1621 hitch. This will match the Lippert pin box dimension for a direct replacement.
https://www.etrailer.com/dept-pg-Fif...spx?Redirect=1

For my current 5er I ordered directly from the Cedar Creek factory for the Trailair pin box to be installed.

For "Chucking" the hitch might be needed to be replaced also. I have found on some hitches that the jaws that clamp around the kingpin have a slight gap, thus chucking can occur. This is to allow the trailer to pivot, since the head does not pivot. At least this was the way my Reese slider hitch worked.
Ping
I replace the Reese Hitch with a 18K Demco Glide Hitch. The head on the Demco pivots which allows for a tight fit of the kingpin around the jaws. No more chucking at all since I replaced the hitch.
X2 my Demco hitch took away my chucking. I have a very smooth ride now.
__________________
Retired Auto body teacher
2017 Puma 255RKS
2019 F-250 Lariat Super Crew 6.2
Having lots of Fun traveling with my wife
old40ford is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-24-2021, 09:18 PM   #20
Junior Member
 
Join Date: May 2020
Posts: 25
5th wheel PIN box

I have a 2021 Silverback 33ik that came with the new Rhino Box. I found that box to be awful. It did a lot of bucking and chucking. I was surprised that FR would put such a pin box on a higher end trailer like the Cedar Creek. Anyway, I did what you are doing and researched other pin boxes and eventually decided upon the MorRyde Rubber pin box. I could not be happier. The reviews are spot on. It is so much better than the Rhino Box. Almost no bucking and chucking. I would highly recommend this pin box. I would anticipate that you will not be dissatisfied if you make this choice.

__________________________________
Dave
2021 Cedar Creek Silverback 33ik
2010 GMC Sierra 2500 HD
Pullrite Superglide 20k
MorRyde Rubber Pin box
dcrajr is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
5th wheel, replacement, wheel

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


» Featured Campgrounds

Reviews provided by

Disclaimer:

This website is not affiliated with or endorsed by Forest River, Inc. or any of its affiliates. This is an independent, unofficial site.



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:52 AM.