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Old 12-05-2023, 06:52 PM   #1
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Rockwood Geo Pro 19FBS weight not making sense

Just rented a 2020 Rockwood GeoPro 19FBS for my first adventure and would like to ask the community to check my math

Tow Vehicle:

Before adding trailer:

Front Axle: 2820 lbs
Rear Axle: 2800 lbs

After adding trailer:

Front Axle: 2640 (-160 lbs)
Rear Axle: 3880 (+ 1080 lbs)
Trailer Axle: 3000

Calculated trailer weight: 3900 lbs (Combined vehicle+trailer weight minus the vehicle weight before adding a trailer)_
Published trailer dry weight 3075 lbs.


I'm trying to estimate the actual tongue weight. If my math is right the tongue weight is 900 lbs, this sounds way out of line with the 10% rule-of-thumb number I've seen many times.

According to some older stats I found, The dry weight is 3075 lbs and the published hitch weight is 413 lbs. There is no way I have 900 lbs of cargo right now.

The trailer is lightly packed. All the tanks are empty. Has the accessories to hook up water and power, and the grey black water hoses. Has 2 full propane tanks (on the tongue) and two car-sized batteries on the tongue. Has kitchen supplies (all plastic and cheap). All storage bins are empty, fridge is empty.

Is it possible that by keeping the tanks empty I'm actually making matters worse? If the water tank is behind the trailer's axle then a full tank would reduce the tongue weight.

In any case, 900 lbs is way beyond the rating of my vehicle, I might have to return the trailer.

Is my math wrong? something isn't making sense.
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Old 12-05-2023, 07:29 PM   #2
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There are literally hundreds of similar posts here, on these popular larger single axle trailers.
You need to use 13% of the trailer's GVWR for a ballpark loaded tongue weight, NOT 10%. These trailers have the axle set farther back, than older single axle trailers. This significantly raises the loaded tongue weight higher. Using fictional dry weights numbers is useless since they are generally based on a stripped-down version of the trailer.
Please post what your tow vehicle is and what its payload capacity is.
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Old 12-05-2023, 08:52 PM   #3
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I almost got sold on a mid sized SUV, dealer said it would be fine, total ignorance. Most of them have a 500 lb tongue weight limit. From what I've read, loaded up to capacity (around 4k lbs), my tongue weight is about 800 lbs, or 20%. That's the way us single axle folks roll. Got a used F150, all is right with the world. My fresh tank is about above axle, so doesn't make a difference on tongue.
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Old 12-05-2023, 09:27 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by winojoe916 View Post
Just rented a 2020 Rockwood GeoPro 19FBS for my first adventure and would like to ask the community to check my math

Tow Vehicle:

Before adding trailer:

Front Axle: 2820 lbs
Rear Axle: 2800 lbs

After adding trailer:

Front Axle: 2640 (-160 lbs)
Rear Axle: 3880 (+ 1080 lbs)
Trailer Axle: 3000

Calculated trailer weight: 3900 lbs (Combined vehicle+trailer weight minus the vehicle weight before adding a trailer)_
Published trailer dry weight 3075 lbs.


I'm trying to estimate the actual tongue weight. If my math is right the tongue weight is 900 lbs, this sounds way out of line with the 10% rule-of-thumb number I've seen many times.

According to some older stats I found, The dry weight is 3075 lbs and the published hitch weight is 413 lbs. There is no way I have 900 lbs of cargo right now.

The trailer is lightly packed. All the tanks are empty. Has the accessories to hook up water and power, and the grey black water hoses. Has 2 full propane tanks (on the tongue) and two car-sized batteries on the tongue. Has kitchen supplies (all plastic and cheap). All storage bins are empty, fridge is empty.

Is it possible that by keeping the tanks empty I'm actually making matters worse? If the water tank is behind the trailer's axle then a full tank would reduce the tongue weight.

In any case, 900 lbs is way beyond the rating of my vehicle, I might have to return the trailer.

Is my math wrong? something isn't making sense.

We need a little more info but your numbers could very well be correct.. Do or are you using a WDH ??

Are your numbers from a CAT scale? What does the tow vehicles weight sticker say?

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Old 12-05-2023, 10:37 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bikendan View Post
There are literally hundreds of similar posts here, on these popular larger single axle trailers.
You need to use 13% of the trailer's GVWR for a ballpark loaded tongue weight, NOT 10%. These trailers have the axle set farther back, than older single axle trailers. This significantly raises the loaded tongue weight higher. Using fictional dry weights numbers is useless since they are generally based on a stripped-down version of the trailer.
Please post what your tow vehicle is and what its payload capacity is.
I messed up my original post. I've been weighing my tow vehicle as I've been modifying it.

The real numbers are:

HTML Code:
                   Without trailer            With Trailer

Front axle           2880                   2640 (-240 lbs)
Rear axle            3020                   3880  (+860 lbs)
Trailer axle        ---                     3000


Calculated trailer weight: 3620
Calculated tongue weight: 620 (17%)

While 17% sounds a bit high, based on what you said above, it probably passes the sniff test, right?

I'm reluctant to tell you my tow vehicle, because all the keyboard warriors will jump in. But it is a 2024 Jeep Wrangler Unlmited 4xe.

The stats are attached below. Yeah, I'm above recommended weight, but I really don't want to go down that rabbit hole
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Old 12-06-2023, 08:18 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by winojoe916 View Post
I messed up my original post. I've been weighing my tow vehicle as I've been modifying it.

The real numbers are:

HTML Code:
                   Without trailer            With Trailer

Front axle           2880                   2640 (-240 lbs)
Rear axle            3020                   3880  (+860 lbs)
Trailer axle        ---                     3000


Calculated trailer weight: 3620
Calculated tongue weight: 620 (17%)

While 17% sounds a bit high, based on what you said above, it probably passes the sniff test, right?

I'm reluctant to tell you my tow vehicle, because all the keyboard warriors will jump in. But it is a 2024 Jeep Wrangler Unlmited 4xe.

The stats are attached below. Yeah, I'm above recommended weight, but I really don't want to go down that rabbit hole
So, if I'm reading your stats right, your rear axle is overloaded by a few hundred pounds.

Not sure what you are after here. You admit being overloaded but don't want to 'go down that rabbit hole'.

If you want validation to go ahead with it, I'm sure someone will chime in eventually saying you're just fine and that they hauled a similar rig without issue for xxxK miles.
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Old 12-06-2023, 04:08 PM   #7
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As far as I can tell looking up towing info for your vehicle, tongue weight limit is 350 lbs, and you will be at a calculated 620 lbs? Double or nothing!
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Old 12-06-2023, 05:12 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by winojoe916 View Post
I messed up my original post. I've been weighing my tow vehicle as I've been modifying it.

The real numbers are:

HTML Code:
                   Without trailer            With Trailer

Front axle           2880                   2640 (-240 lbs)
Rear axle            3020                   3880  (+860 lbs)
Trailer axle        ---                     3000


Calculated trailer weight: 3620
Calculated tongue weight: 620 (17%)

While 17% sounds a bit high, based on what you said above, it probably passes the sniff test, right?


I'm reluctant to tell you my tow vehicle, because all the keyboard warriors will jump in. But it is a 2024 Jeep Wrangler Unlmited 4xe.

The stats are attached below. Yeah, I'm above recommended weight, but I really don't want to go down that rabbit hole
I tow a 2021 E-Pro19FBS, my TT, when loaded has a Tongue Weight between 650-700 lbs, and that is with NO battery on the Tongue.

As others are saying, You do have a serious OVERWEIGHT Problem on REAR AXLE (Tolerable?), Your MAX TRAILER Weight, but PROBABLY also on your HITCH (Tongue) weight as well.

I also see that your Jeep is powered by a 2.0L 4cyl engine, you will have a tough time towing that TT in ANY mountainous terrain, higher elevations, or passes.
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Old 12-06-2023, 05:37 PM   #9
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I think your math is incorrect. And I'm guessing you aren't using a WDH...or at least not correctly, because of the unloading of the front axle on the tow vehicle.

Generally speaking...and in most cases...
Dry hitch weight includes the weight of the empty propane tank(s). It does NOT inlude the weight of battery(ies) and propane in the tank(s).

Published hitch weight: 413#
Battery weight: ~60# x 2 = 120#
Propane weight: ~20# x 2 = 40#
Theoretical tongue weight without ANY cargo: ~613#

With no other items packed in your rig, your tongue weight will be much closer to 613#. These things don't move well, so that's your starting point. Those items are NOT on the hitch ball, so the axle carries a tiny fraction of their weight...but 613# is close enough for guesswork.

When you add cargo to the rig - clothes, cooking utensils, dishes (even paper plates), towels, toiletries, and so on, placement in the rig adds to or subtracts from tongue weight.

You understand the 10+% rule for tongue weight as loaded.
This is the 2024 version of the rig. The numbers seem similar. Looking at used listings, the floor plan seems to be pretty much unchanged. So I'll work from the 2024 factory specs.

Risks:
1) Giant passthrough storage under the bed to accumulate lots of weight well forward.
2) Giant pantry/wardrobe between the kitchen and the bed...can also accumulate lots of weight.
3) Your hot water heater is likely full. 6 gallons at 8.3#/gallon well forward of the rig's axle = 50#. So, even if you don't fill your fresh tank, you're carrying water unless you drain the hot water heater each time you hit the road.
Reverse Risks:
1) That fridge and the bathroom can hold lots of stuff = weight.

You missed a step in your weighing routine. Echoing others, what you need to do is load the rig for travel. No fresh water, since you don't need it. Take it to a CAT scale and weigh the tongue and WDH -- OFF THE HITCH BALL...just the tongue jack and WDH on the scale. That tells you what's crushing down on the bumper pull hitch receiver on your tow vehicle and eating into your TV's payload capacity. The CAT scale will tell you facts...not conjecture.
Next, remove the WDH from the CAT scale and get the actual tongue weight of the rig so you can calculate the safe % that should be on the hitch ball for stable towing.
If your tongue weight is too high...above 15% and well above what your tow vehicle (TV) can handle (with the roughly 60# WDH bearing down on the receiver), you can adjust your loading tactics to move some heavy items to the rear of the rig...say in the shower...to tweak the tongue weight. Just be sure to maintain an absolute minimum of 10% on the tongue...12% would be safer. 532 pounds (without the WDH) would be a good target.

Bear in mind that if you remove 1# from up front and move it far back, the net result will be a nearly 2# change in tongue weight. That 1# in the shower will apply about .75# of 'LIFT' on your tongue...just as the current configuration UNLOADED the front axle on your TV. Moving a pound from the pass-through to the shower has nearly double the impact on tongue weight (based on where the rig's axle is located).

Then weigh the entire rig, including rig's axle and the tongue jack on the scale, WITHOUT the WDH to get the actual GVW (4437 allowed on the 2024 model) and see if you are overloaded or not. The specs say you only have 894 pounds of cargo capacity. You've used 200# of it with batteries and propane. If your water heater is wet, that's another 50#. 644 pounds of cargo doesn't go far. You'll be surprised. And if you were to add 31 gallons of freshwater (minus the 6 gallons of rated capacity that's actually in the water heater) at 8.3#/gallon, that consumes 207# of the remaining 644...leaving you with just 437 pounds of cargo. It goes fast. BUT IF YOU COME IN SIGNIFICANTLY BELOW GVWR, you might lower the tongue weight by a smidge by moving load behind the trailer axle. Just do the math for 12% tongue weight.

Keep track of the loading tactics that give you a safe tongue weight, so you can repeat them.

If this rental is a test drive to see if you like RVing, learn what you can about your RVing habits so you can make an intelligent purchase later. By all acounts, this rig is intended for boondocking (thus the two batteries), so traveling wet will be part of the deal if used as intended. If you are into RV parks with hookups, there are far better choices that your TV can tow - preferably with two axles.

Repeating...I think your math was wrong...or too much of the cargo in your rig is forward of the rig's axle. The CAT scale will tell you the facts and educate you on how best to load any particular RV. It seems that you found a CAT scale, you just need to adjust your tactics a bit so you can correctly load your rig. And if you don't have a WDH, either get one or rent one with the rig.
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