Sales vs towing knowledge

[HONDAMAN174]

Originally Posted by happycamperab

hI there,



I am very confused and not to happy after visiting the RV show 2 weeks ago.



I like the forest river products and went to look at and hopefully purchase and Rpod to pull with our 2009 honda pilot which has a tow capacity of 3500 lbs. I knew this would be pretty close to the max I could tow with a safety margin. We like to camp and fish and canoe while we do so and often bring our kids bikes.



We ran into another dealer at the show how assured us we could pull the Viking 17bh which is 2818 dry weight (3626 GVW). I told them I have 2 kids, canoe, etc and the response was "we put these things behind mini vans". So I filled out the financing and was prepared to buy and talk to them in a week when I got back.



Well over that week I am doubting this is safe for my family and am now wondering why they would do this. First of all if my calculations are correct my tongue weight will be far exceeded and I will not be even close to having a 20% safety margin as I have been reading is advise.



Honda tells me not to use a weight D hitch and if I am operating outside the manual my insurance will not cover me.



We love this trailer but I don't want to put my kids at risk by pulling something I shouldn't or is not safe. Is my math off? Is the dealer correct here and this is a safe thing to pull? I am not in a position to pick up a new TV for the sake of a trailer. I have not signed off on the trailer only the financing and taking this into consideration the financing on the trailer is not enough to cover a new truck!



Thoughts? Is it safe to pull this with my family in the pilot?

Is your pilot 2wd or 4wd?

I ask because I have towed with the vehicle and their is a big difference with tow capacity.

[Toby]

Originally Posted by Kaadk

We have 2 major dealers in my general area:

Dealer #1:"Sure you can tow this 42' fifth wheel with your 1/2 ton RamBox, let's go inside and sign some papers."

Dealer #2: "This is the only thing I've got on the lot right now that meet your layout needs, but if you insist on towing it I'd recommend beefing up the suspension, towing it with nothing in it and no kids in the vehicle and parking it on a seasonal site. If you really want my recommendation I'd suggest you wait until we get some ultralights back in stock. Let me take your number."

Guess which dealer we bought from.

That being said, we were in for some maintenance and I was chatting about my parent's looking for a minivan towable trailer as an alternative to their park model. Since they're getting older, I was curious what the dealer had that didn't require setup. He said the R-Pod is the only thing even close, and at that somewhat maxed, that a minivan can tow outside of a pop-up/A-Frame.

I think for dealer #1 I would have them start by signing and notarizing a document that states it is safe to tow such trailer and that dealer takes full responsibility for any wear and tear on vehicle, safety issues and all other expenses related to towing a trailer beyond the capacity of the truck. I wonder if their tune would change.

[Signguy71]

You got to love the salesman, I just bought a TT with a 1300 TW and they tried to sell me on a WDH rated for a 1000 lbs TW. Just do you homework and know what is right. Ask on here as there are tons of people here not after your money.

[dustman_stx]

Originally Posted by Toby

I think for dealer #1 I would have them start by signing and notarizing a document that states it is safe to tow such trailer and that dealer takes full responsibility for any wear and tear on vehicle, safety issues and all other expenses related to towing a trailer beyond the capacity of the truck. I wonder if their tune would change.

I doubt you could get a dealer to sign that if you were towing a popup with an F450.

[Toby]

Right. Exactly my point. Such a hurry to sign some papers...if that dealer told me my half ton would tow a fifth wheel that would be my response though.

[Talonman]

BMW is also no on the WDH, they just like to tease me by making a car with an awesome diesel and cripple it with a few odd choices.

I am going to try without first and if it sucks I'm going Reese DC.

[B and B]

I was at the London Ontario RV Show yesterday. A large silver trailer dealer has other lines as well. They had the usual "half ton towable" There was couple talking with a sales rep. I said boldly the loaded weight of this prime time trailer is 12,000 lbs. No half ton can tow this, as well the family is in a short box needing a reese revolution or slider. They also had a 16,000 GVW 5th showing it being towable by a F250, still over weight for that truck IMHO. I know one dealer in Southern Ontario that will not sell unless you can tow it. PM if interested.

B

[Kaadk]

Originally Posted by Toby

Right. Exactly my point. Such a hurry to sign some papers...if that dealer told me my half ton would tow a fifth wheel that would be my response though.

At least I had the option walking away from Dealer #1 and going with Dealer #2. Not everybody has that luxury.

Originally Posted by Talonman

BMW is also no on the WDH, they just like to tease me by making a car with an awesome diesel and cripple it with a few odd choices.

I am going to try without first and if it sucks I'm going Reese DC.

BMW (and I assume Honda) uses a unibody construction instead of a frame. They're built to crumple around the passenger 'cage' and can't take the torsional stress of a WDH. I've been in the BMW plants and seen what can happen when forces get applied the frame's not expecting. Not a pretty sight.

Originally Posted by B and B

I was at the London Ontario RV Show yesterday. A large silver trailer dealer has other lines as well. They had the usual "half ton towable" There was couple talking with a sales rep. I said boldly the loaded weight of this prime time trailer is 12,000 lbs. No half ton can tow this, as well the family is in a short box needing a reese revolution or slider. They also had a 16,000 GVW 5th showing it being towable by a F250, still over weight for that truck IMHO. I know one dealer in Southern Ontario that will not sell unless you can tow it. PM if interested.

B

I bet you I can give you a second one. Dealer's #1 and #2 from my post (as well as 3,4,5 and 6 that I ruled out due to lousy stock) are all in Southern Ontario.

[Weezer]

After years of doing "gubmint work" I have a solution to dealing with someone selling you a bill of goods and you're not sure they're being honest and straight forward;

Look 'em straight in the eye and ask "are you willing to put that in writing, signed and notarized?

Then laugh as they stutter and sputter while you walk out.


OOOPS, I see someone else has already proposed this.

[jwedell]

Next time a salesman tells you it's 1/2 ton towable tell him you'll take it if he guarantees it in writing. That will shut him up.

[ChooChooMan74]

I was at Boston Camping show a few weeks back. I saw one trailer, yellow sticker weight of 4900lbs, and showed a picture of a Liberty saying "I can tow this". I laughed and said, no it can't. That thing weighed more than my Roo FULLY LOADED!!! And I know with the Diesel Libby, I am at the limit of towing.

I would look at trying to get a deal on a JGC Diesel to tow your trailer.

[TeresaInCAL]

Originally Posted by B and B

I was at the London Ontario RV Show yesterday. A large silver trailer dealer has other lines as well. They had the usual "half ton towable" There was couple talking with a sales rep. I said boldly the loaded weight of this prime time trailer is 12,000 lbs. No half ton can tow this, as well the family is in a short box needing a reese revolution or slider. They also had a 16,000 GVW 5th showing it being towable by a F250, still over weight for that truck IMHO. I know one dealer in Southern Ontario that will not sell unless you can tow it. PM if interested.

B

B & B, how much weight can your truck tow with the King Ranch package?

[dustman_stx]

Originally Posted by jwedell

Next time a salesman tells you it's 1/2 ton towable tell him you'll take it if he guarantees it in writing. That will shut him up.

Once again- this point makes little sense. A salesman has no idea how you load your vehicle or what you will be carrying. Some 1/2 tons have more payload capacity than many 3/4 tons. And the term 1/2 ton has very little meaning any more since listed carrying capacities vary from less than 1K to 2500 plus. He wouldn't guarantee you a 1 ton dually would pull a popup in writing. You could load the bed full of sakrete and put six obese passengers in it and you'd be over on GVWR. I will agree, however, that 1. Most salesman are severely lacking in knowledge about towing and 2. Many are quite dishonest and would tell you almost anything to make a sale.

[jwedell]

Not looking to start an argument but that is my point. They'll tell anyone they can tow it with their 1/2 ton truck but they have absolutely no idea what truck they have. First time buyers or uninformed buyers will believe them and possibly put their family's and others at grave risk on the roads. Again my point is if the salesman is not absolutely sure he should not make the claim.

[jevanb]

It is not the sales person responsibility to ensure the tow vehicle is adequate to tow the coach off their lot. The new owner is responsible for this action, why is this so difficult to understand??? If you want to tow anything with your vehicle it is YOU who is responsible, not anybody else.. People need to educate them self`s before they even show up and start looking, and if they do not?? O well, deal with the mistake you made...

[davel1971]

not all half tons are created equal, so that's a really bold statement saying "half ton towable"

[jwedell]

Let's say a single mom wants to buy a small travel trailer to take her young children camping. She goes to a RV dealer and a salesman talks her into buying a trailer too big for her vehicle. Maybe she's not capable of advanced math and has to rely on the salesman for an honest answer. If he isn't sure HE should say so. A lot of guys can run every number under the sun and many can't.

[davel1971]

payload is just as important as towing capacity. By the time the cab is full of family, bed is full of gear and tongue weight of camper, not hard to overload most half tons.

[KDHfan]

I tried to tow an RPod 182G with my Trailblazer with a tow cap. of 5200#... I could tow... But not safely. I would say there's no way a Pilot can handle it. We loved our Rpod... Until we had a trip with 3 days of rain. Just not enough space for 4. So I upgraded my TV and purchased a Rockwood 2306.

[Herk7769]

Originally Posted by dustman_stx

Once again- this point makes little sense. A salesman has no idea how you load your vehicle or what you will be carrying. Some 1/2 tons have more payload capacity than many 3/4 tons. And the term 1/2 ton has very little meaning any more since listed carrying capacities vary from less than 1K to 2500 plus. He wouldn't guarantee you a 1 ton dually would pull a popup in writing. You could load the bed full of sakrete and put six obese passengers in it and you'd be over on GVWR. I will agree, however, that 1. Most salesman are severely lacking in knowledge about towing and 2. Many are quite dishonest and would tell you almost anything to make a sale.

Right on.

Remaining payload is everything. You need to know that number to have any hope of making a proper choice.