scale weights, wd setup

[jeeplj8]

So I took the rig to the cat scale tonight. 3 weights, first with the wd setup as the dealer sent me down the road:
Steer axle 3840
Drive axle 5240
Trailer axle 7540
Gross weight 16620

Then I unhooked the wd and set the bars across the a frame:
Steer axle 3620
Drive axle 5520
Trailer axle 7460
Gross weight 16600

Looks like I lost 20 lbs! I had read the scale weighs in twenty pound increments. Finally I unhooked to get a weight for just the truck and camper.
Steer axle 4160
Drive axle 3820
Trailer axle 8640
Gross weight 16620

So, it looks like my trailer is 8640 dry ready to call with no clothes or provisions packed. It has a tongue weight of 1200 pounds, which seems a little high.

My truck weighs 7980 empty. Thought it would be more, weighed 8300 on the scrapper scale last time I hauled junk with just the dog in it.

The trailer is taking 540 pounds off the front axle, and the wd setup is putting 220 of that back on the front, and about 80 pounds back on the trailer.

So how do those numbers look to you guys?

[Dave_Monica]

A good exercise...something that every owner should undertake to know about their set-up.

You didn't note what your truck is but by the weights, it must be a diesel 3/4 T, yes? It seems a little odd to me that a 1200 lbs tow weight would take 540 lbs off the front axle of the truck. Are you sure that the drive/steer axles weight in the unloaded truck aren't reversed?

Dave

[jeeplj8]

Whoops, my signature must not be showing up. Truck is An Excursion diesel.

[Dave_Monica]

Thanks for clarifying...are those drive/steer weights of the unloaded truck reversed? If they were, everything looks as one would expect.

Dave

[jeeplj8]

No, unloaded the steer axle is heavier.

[MtnGuy]

Originally Posted by jeeplj8

Looks like I lost 20 lbs! I had read the scale weighs in twenty pound increments. Finally I unhooked to get a weight for just the truck and camper.
Steer axle 4160
Drive axle 3820
Trailer axle 8640
Gross weight 16620

It is not unusual to lose or gain 20 lbs. when weighing on a scale with 20 lb. imcrements. What is 20 lbs. amongst friends ???

The last measurements....how were they done ?? I read that the Excursion was unhooked from the trailer, but where was the trailer.....on the scales, also ??

If I am reading things correctly, you may want to tighten up on your WDH a little bit more.

What are your axle weight ratings ?? That should be posted on the drivers door.

Kudos for taking the time to get your weights.

[MtnGuy]

If I am reading the figures correctly, and repeating some of the numbers you came up with:

You have a 1160 lb. tongue weight. You posted in another thread that you are using 1000 lb. bars, but I don't see those listed. The choices that I am seeing are 600, 800, and 1200 lb. bars. You probably need the 1200 lb. bars.

Hanging that 1160 lbs. on your hitch adds 1700 lbs. to your rear axle, and takes off 540 lbs. from the front axle.

When you hook up the WDH, you add 220 lbs. of the lost weight, but are still short 320 lbs.

If all of those figures are correct, I believe that if you can get more weight back on the front axle, the sway problem noted in your "anti sway" thread may improve. Also, adding the 2nd friction sway control bar should help.

[jeeplj8]

The Reece Pro set-up came with 1000 lb bars. The hitch itself is rated at 10K, with 1K bars. This may add some fuel to fire of a hitch upgrade anyway.

To get the unhooked truck/trailer weights, I unhooked the trailer and left it on the trailer pad, then pulled the Ex forward to the tractor pads.

How did you figure the tongue weight, and where did the 1700 come from? I came up with 1200...which I still think is too high and want to try and adjust to reduce that amount.

Finally, is it better to simply pull up a link on the chains for the trunnion bars or change the head angle to push some weight forward?

[MtnGuy]

Originally Posted by jeeplj8

The Reece Pro set-up came with 1000 lb bars. The hitch itself is rated at 10K, with 1K bars. This may add some fuel to fire of a hitch upgrade anyway.

Agree.

Originally Posted by jeeplj8

To get the unhooked truck/trailer weights, I unhooked the trailer and left it on the trailer pad, then pulled the Ex forward to the tractor pads.

Were the trailer axles and tongue on the same platform, or separate platforms ??

Originally Posted by jeeplj8

How did you figure the tongue weight, and where did the 1700 come from? I came up with 1200...which I still think is too high and want to try and adjust to reduce that amount.

I figured the 1160 lbs by subtracting the empty Expy weight (4160 + 3820) of 7980 lbs. from the Expy weight with the trailer hooked up but without the bars in place (3620 + 5520 = 9140 lbs.) 9140 - 7980 = 1160 lbs.

Where did you get the 1200 lb. tongue weight ?? If you had the tongue on a separate scale platform when doing the individual weights, then I am guessing that is how you got the 1200 lbs ?? And, if you had the spring bars resting on the tongue frame, then that will account for some of the 40 lb. difference between the calculated weight and the actual scale weight, if indeed that is how you got the 1200 lbs.

Originally Posted by jeeplj8

Finally, is it better to simply pull up a link on the chains for the trunnion bars or change the head angle to push some weight forward?

Yes and no. With many Reese products, they recommend no less than 5 links of chain used between the spring bar and the snap up bracket. If you have more that 5 links used, then yes you can just use 1 chain length less. If you now have only 5 links between the snap up bracket and spring bar, then you would need to tilt the head assembly back a notch or 2. Tilting the head back 1 notch is equal to about 1 chain link. So what ever you are using now, if you tilt it back 2 notches, then you 1st try 1 chain link more, and that is not enough you can go back to the same number of links used now to tighten even more.

Check the Reese manual to see what the minimum number of chain lengths that they recommend. The minimum number is important to give the chain enough room to swing back and forth during turns.

You may not be able to get the proper weight distributing with 1000 lb. bars.

[jeeplj8]

Originally Posted by mtnguy

Agree.



Were the trailer axles and tongue on the same platform, or separate platforms ??



I figured the 1160 lbs by subtracting the empty Expy weight (4160 + 3820) of 7980 lbs. from the Expy weight with the trailer hooked up but without the bars in place (3620 + 5520 = 9140 lbs.) 9140 - 7980 = 1160 lbs.

Where did you get the 1200 lb. tongue weight ?? If you had the tongue on a separate scale platform when doing the individual weights, then I am guessing that is how you got the 1200 lbs ?? And, if you had the spring bars resting on the tongue frame, then that will account for some of the 40 lb. difference between the calculated weight and the actual scale weight, if indeed that is how you got the 1200 lbs.



Yes and no. With many Reese products, they recommend no less than 5 links of chain used between the spring bar and the snap up bracket. If you have more that 5 links used, then yes you can just use 1 chain length less. If you now have only 5 links between the snap up bracket and spring bar, then you would need to tilt the head assembly back a notch or 2. Tilting the head back 1 notch is equal to about 1 chain link. So what ever you are using now, if you tilt it back 2 notches, then you 1st try 1 chain link more, and that is not enough you can go back to the same number of links used now to tighten even more.

Check the Reese manual to see what the minimum number of chain lengths that they recommend. The minimum number is important to give the chain enough room to swing back and forth during turns.

You may not be able to get the proper weight distributing with 1000 lb. bars.

My math was a little off...yes - you are correct on tongue weight.

The trailer axles and tongue were on a single pad for the trailer weight.

1160 is still a bit more tongue weight that I want. I would expect that when actually loaded with food/beverages and clothes etc the weight may distribute a little better. I may try and get another weight when we pull to Indiana for turkey day.

In the meantime, still debating what to do hitch wise. Local trailer shop is quoting me about 620 for the dual cam trunnion style, cheaper for the round bar. The SC set-up is cheaper.

[MtnGuy]

Those prices are not too far off of what you can order from Etrailer. Here are some of those:


Strait-Line Weight Distribution System w Sway Control - Round Bar - 12,000 lbs GTW, 1,200 lbs TW Reese Weight Distribution RP66088

Strait-Line Weight Distribution System w Sway Control - Trunnion Bar - 12,000 lbs GTW, 1,200 lbs TW Reese Weight Distribution RP66084

Equal-i-zer offers a 14,000/1400 lb. system: 14K Equalizer Adj Hitch - RVWholesalers.com RV Parts and Accessories

Also, Blue Ox has a 15000/1500 lb system in their Sway Pro series.

[jeeplj8]

Set it up one link shorter for the ride back to the caves tonight. About 8 miles on the highway, felt different, tighter is the best word. not necessarily bouncy, but very rigid connection between truck and trailer. However, due to the pawl of the coupler hitting the ball base, I could not raise the truck high enough to get tension off to either hook it up that way or unhook it, so I would need to adjust the head angle if I keep this set-up.

I am leaning toward the Reece dual cam based upon many of the reviews here. It appears to be very good at reducing trailer movement and is quiet. It also does not have to be unhooked before backing up. I have read many great reviews of the Egaulizer but most report it is quite noisy, which i would prefer to avoid. And there is really not much info on the blue ox on this board other than someone saying they changed the design at some point and it not as good as it used to be.

I have also looked hard at the Anderson system but have not seen very many people post numbers on actual weight distribution...which concerns me.

[MtnGuy]

Originally Posted by jeeplj8

Set it up one link shorter for the ride back to the caves tonight. About 8 miles on the highway, felt different, tighter is the best word. not necessarily bouncy, but very rigid connection between truck and trailer. However, due to the pawl of the coupler hitting the ball base, I could not raise the truck high enough to get tension off to either hook it up that way or unhook it, so I would need to adjust the head angle if I keep this set-up.

.

I understand that a severe angle could inhibit the pawl from going into place. Try pulling the Expy forward just a tad after getting the coupler on the ball. If the ball is all of the way forward the coupler pocket, that helps getting the pawl in place. Yes, tilting the head assembly back would help that situation, and also allow another link or 2 of chain between the snap up bracket and spring bars.

Originally Posted by jeeplj8

I am leaning toward the Reece dual cam based upon many of the reviews here. It appears to be very good at reducing trailer movement and is quiet. It also does not have to be unhooked before backing up.

Beware, there used to be some rub problems associated with the Reese trunnion style (square bars) between the spring bars and the dual cam yoke or frame plate bolts during a sharp turn. I don't know if that is still a problem with the new redesigned system or not. The rub problem existed during a perfect meshing of conditions.....I can go into further details if needed.

There are have been no rub problems with the round bar system that I am aware of. The round bar system seems to work better for those trailers that have the coupler on top of the tongue frame, and the square bar system seems to work better when the coupler is on the bottom of the tongue framer. I had the rub problem with my trunnion style setup, and wished that I had opted for the round bar spring bars.

Originally Posted by jeeplj8

I have read many great reviews of the Egaulizer but most report it is quite noisy, which i would prefer to avoid.

The Reese Dual Cam system can also be noisy. I lessen that with Vaseline on the crook of the spring bars where the ride on the cams. I think Reese now suggests oil or grease on the springs bars when using 1200 lb. or stiffer bars (statement retracted in post #16).

Originally Posted by jeeplj8

And there is really not much info on the blue ox on this board other than someone saying they changed the design at some point and it not as good as it used to be.

I have also looked hard at the Anderson system but have not seen very many people post numbers on actual weight distribution...which concerns me.

I can see the Anderson working on trailers with light tongue weights, but using them to distribute weight on a 1200 lb. tongue would put tremendous stress on the chains. I am not sold on Anderson yet.....but would like to see more information on heavier tongue weights.

[Len & Cheri]

Originally Posted by mtnguy

.

The Reese Dual Cam system can also be noisy. I lessen that with Vaseline on the crook of the spring bars where the ride on the cams. I think Reese now suggests oil or grease on the springs bars when using 1200 lb. or stiffer bars.

Hey mtnguy, where did you read that? I have been using vaseline on my 1200 lb bars and the instructions say not to use grease. I'm getting a little bit of wear on mine and I'm just curious if there has been a change in their thoughts on grease.

[MtnGuy]

Originally Posted by Len & Cheri

Hey mtnguy, where did you read that? I have been using vaseline on my 1200 lb bars and the instructions say not to use grease. I'm getting a little bit of wear on mine and I'm just curious if there has been a change in their thoughts on grease.

I always thought that grease or oil was not to be used.

Here is the installation and maintenance manual for the dual cam:

Trailer Hitch Instructions For DrawTite, Reese, Hidden Hitch & More - etrailer.com

On sheet 8 (of 30), here is the statements:

1. DO NOT – use grease on the cams or cam arms.
2. If noise of the system is offensive, a very light coating of lubricant such as Vaseline may be used on the portion of the
cam where the spring bar rides on the cam.
Tongue weights in excess of 1,200 lbs. may require the use of such a lubricant to prevent excessive wear.
3. Keep all painted parts painted to prevent rust and maintain a good appearance. (Do Not paint over labels)

I interpret "may require the use of such a lubricant to prevent excessive wear" as referring back to #1 about not using grease on the cams.

But now that I read it again, they also refer to Vaseline as a lubricant, so it may be referring to that. Since it is in the same section, it probably means Vaseline....which I don't think of as much of a lubricant.

How do others interpret that section ?? I may have to do a retraction on my previous statement.

[MtnGuy]

Len & Cheri and others, after reading through my old instructions (copyright 2003), and again rereading the new instructions (copyright 2010), I now believe the statement referred to in my last post does indeed mean to use Vaseline instead of grease on the dual cams. Sorry for the misinformation.

I am going to put a disclaimer on my orginal post about grease on the 1200 lb. bars.

Here are the bar ends of my 800 lb. bars pulling a trailer with a 700 lb. tongue weight:



Not too bad after about 8700 miles. I do use Vaseline at the start of every trip, but it tends to eventually wear off by the end of the day.....as evident with the noise as I pull into my campground site.

[jeeplj8]

Originally Posted by mtnguy

.

I understand that a severe angle could inhibit the pawl from going into place. Try pulling the Expy forward just a tad after getting the coupler on the ball. If the ball is all of the way forward the coupler pocket, that helps getting the pawl in place. Yes, tilting the head assembly back would help that situation, and also allow another link or 2 of chain between the snap up bracket and spring bars.



Beware, there used to be some rub problems associated with the Reese trunnion style (square bars) between the spring bars and the dual cam yoke or frame plate bolts during a sharp turn. I don't know if that is still a problem with the new redesigned system or not. The rub problem existed during a perfect meshing of conditions.....I can go into further details if needed.

There are have been no rub problems with the round bar system that I am aware of. The round bar system seems to work better for those trailers that have the coupler on top of the tongue frame, and the square bar system seems to work better when the coupler is on the bottom of the tongue framer. I had the rub problem with my trunnion style setup, and wished that I had opted for the round bar spring bars.

The ball was firmly locked in the coupler, I was jacking up the the rear end of the truck to take tension off the trunnion bars to try and get them attached. the problem was the flat part of the ball at the bottom was hitting the pawl that come down. I dont think there was anything I could do without changing the angle of the hitch head.

I read several comments online - including an "expert opinion" on etrailer that the trunnion bars are superior to round bars. However the round bars are definitely cheaper.

[jeeplj8]

Originally Posted by mtnguy

Len & Cheri and others, after reading through my old instructions (copyright 2003), and again rereading the new instructions (copyright 2010), I now believe the statement referred to in my last post does indeed mean to use Vaseline instead of grease on the dual cams. Sorry for the misinformation.

I am going to put a disclaimer on my orginal post about grease on the 1200 lb. bars.

Here are the bar ends of my 800 lb. bars pulling a trailer with a 700 lb. tongue weight:

Attachment 21462

Not too bad after about 8700 miles. I do use Vaseline at the start of every trip, but it tends to eventually wear off by the end of the day.....as evident with the noise as I pull into my campground site.

so is the noise kind of a pop when the cam pops out or more of a screech of it binding on metal? Just curious. Those kind of noises will probably freak the wife out a little...

[jeeplj8]

the round bar is here for 505:
Reese 66088 Strait-Line 1200 lbs Round Bar with Shank Camper Trailer RV
the trunnion is 568:
Strait-Line Weight Distribution System w Sway Control - Trunnion Bar - 12,000 lbs GTW, 1,200 lbs TW Reese Weight Distribution RP66084

[Len & Cheri]

Originally Posted by mtnguy

Len & Cheri and others, after reading through my old instructions (copyright 2003), and again rereading the new instructions (copyright 2010), I now believe the statement referred to in my last post does indeed mean to use Vaseline instead of grease on the dual cams. Sorry for the misinformation.

I am going to put a disclaimer on my orginal post about grease on the 1200 lb. bars.

Here are the bar ends of my 800 lb. bars pulling a trailer with a 700 lb. tongue weight:

Attachment 21467

Not too bad after about 8700 miles. I do use Vaseline at the start of every trip, but it tends to eventually wear off by the end of the day.....as evident with the noise as I pull into my campground site.

Thanks for keeping us straight

My 1200 lbs bars look a little worse then that after about 1500 miles.