Short Bed vs Long Bed

[jimmarako]

Originally Posted by Shane C

I would say that a large percentage of us run a non slider Anderson in a standard bed truck with no issues whatsoever. 2019 3500 Duramax. I forget the 36ft 5th wheel is back there sometimes it rides so well. Can do 90 degrees.

Would never tow that with gas by the way.

OK, so I have a question. I don't own a 5th wheel, but something I'm considering down the road. So this is for learning.

I took a look at the Anderson hitch. It looks like they move the ball back ~6". My physics is failing me for some reason, but this would move the weight and pivot point back behind the rear axle. I thought the 2 primary reasons that 5th wheels towed so nicely was that the weight and pivot point were in front of the rear axle. At least what I was reading from the company that sells sliding hitches.

So not knowing anything at this point I would lean towards a slider type hitch (if I didn't have a long bed) to get the best towing results. Or just try to be careful and not exceed 60-70 degrees turning.

Am I right or wrong here?

Jim M.

[ppine]

For towing a large 5er the choice should be easy. Buy a one ton long bed. You will be happiest with a diesel. Buy any cab configuration you want.

[Bhrava]

Originally Posted by jimmarako

OK, so I have a question. I don't own a 5th wheel, but something I'm considering down the road. So this is for learning.

I took a look at the Anderson hitch. It looks like they move the ball back ~6". My physics is failing me for some reason, but this would move the weight and pivot point back behind the rear axle. I thought the 2 primary reasons that 5th wheels towed so nicely was that the weight and pivot point were in front of the rear axle. At least what I was reading from the company that sells sliding hitches.

So not knowing anything at this point I would lean towards a slider type hitch (if I didn't have a long bed) to get the best towing results. Or just try to be careful and not exceed 60-70 degrees turning.

Am I right or wrong here?



Jim M.

According to their specs it moves the kingpin back 9 7/16" from axle centerline. So yes it will lighten the front axle somewhat, but the pivot point is a non issue. The Reese Sidewinder and others like it move the pivot point back 22" and has zero effect on handling. Just keep in mind that the Anderson requires safety chains in most states since its considered a Gooseneck connection.

[nayther]

For me the deciding factor is what do you use the truck for when not towing? And where you live. I'm in the L.A. area so a long bed is a very LONG truck to park and maneuver. If I lived in a rural area, or didn't use the truck as a daily driver I'd have a long bed just to have more storage while towing the 5er

[Rgpigeon]

Originally Posted by Dennis878

I know this has been discussed to death but I want to limit this discussion to only 2020 and 2021, 2500 or 3500 trucks. If other years have the same bed lengths fine. I’m not a truck person so I really don’t know.

This question is for a purchase of a new TV and 5th wheel trailer and Hitch. I’ve kind of narrowed it down to Ford for payload capacity reasons. I’m not sure about 6’9” bed or 8’. I was also looking at the Super Cab instead of the Crew Cab for weight reasons. Also the ride quality of a one truck vs 3/4 ton. No diesels it’s either the smaller Ford gas engine 6.2 or 7.3. There isn’t much difference in price between the 1 and 3/4 ton.

The truck would come first and would buy the 5th wheel based on that. Looking at trailers about 35 feet. We are old and retired and don’t want a rough riding TV and it will also be our daily driver.

Like most here long wheel base is best. Now where I grew up only the city slickers had a truck bed less than 8'. Now days if you do not need an 8' of bed I think a long wheel base truck with a short bed might be just fine. Watch your clearance around the cab. I have a Ford F450 now, crew cab and 8' bed. Tows my 5th very well, but altogether it is loooong.

[Rgpigeon]

Originally Posted by jim34rl

go with the 8' bed truck. Here is why!

The wheel base of a long bed truck will provide a better ride than the short wheel base of a short bed truck. It is the wheel base that makes the difference in the ride, not the bed length. Here is an example on what i mean. I am using my model year of truck. A 2008, dodge regular cab long bed truck has a wheel base of 140.5", the dodge mega cab with a short bed has a wheel base of 160.5 "

you can use a standard hitch of your choice in a long bed truck. You will need a slider hitch in a short bed truck.

The long bed truck will allow for an additional fuel tank to be added. This will allow you more driving distances between fill-ups. Making it easier to fill the truck up without the 5th wheel attached.

Purchase a 3500 srw truck this should allow you to tow most 35' trailers. An the ride will not be that much different than a 2500 model truck.

👍👍

[Rgpigeon]

Originally Posted by MT Biker

Here is my opinion which many will still argue with because they feel they must...
We have owned our 2019 F-250 Lariat 6.2L long bed for 26-months now, we only have 12k miles on it and really only use it for towing.
When used for towing the ride is ok as it has weight in the back, this truck also has the plow / camper package so it has the heavier spring package. When not towing the ride in this truck sucks ass and that is putting it as mildly as I can.
It is the worst riding vehicle I have ever owned, maybe if you lived in Florida where it is mostly flat and the majority of the roads are in decent shape it would probably seem ok.
But living in New England where winters are brutal on roadways the ride is awful, which is why when we are not towing anything this truck sits in our driveway and I use my 2020 Tundra as it rides like a Cadillac compared to the F-250.
Again, great truck for towing, just not as a daily driver.
One other thing to consider with Ford, the super cab long bed trucks only have a 34 gallon gas tank. The quad cab long bed trucks have the larger 48 gallon tanks.
If I were buying new today I would seriously consider the new GM HD trucks as the independent front suspension should offer a better ride when empty.
But only way you can know for sure is for you to go test drive them all and make your own decision.

I will not argue that a heavy duty spring optioned truck, no matter the brand will ride rough. That is to be expected. But you optioned it to safely tow a load. Probably better w/o the snow plow camper option. I grew up with trucks, we used the trucks as trucks. In the winter we would put some weight in the bed over the wheels... ride better and gave us some better traction. Did the same with our cars, this was in the 70/80s. Now days we use trucks more for commuting and sometimes towing. I think one has to find a happy medium. I drive a F450 crew cab long bed. It may be a little rough with out a load but I drove empty all the way back home from the East coast to Idaho and back again. I loved the ride. Just my experience and thoughts.

[MikeRP]

My new 2020 Ram 3500 Longhorn CC long bed rides remarkably well. Plus the payload is 4156lbs. I’m sure you’d have to go dually to get a better payload in a one ton truck.

Don’t go 2500 with a fifth wheel. I have a spreadsheet comparing 2 different Fords and my Ram. One of the Fords has a long bed the other doesn’t.

Send me a PM and I’ll send ya the spreadsheet. It’s a good learning tool to see how Ford and Ram play games with payload.

[NMWildcat]

Originally Posted by MikeRP

Don’t go 2500 with a fifth wheel.

Definitely sounds like a blanket statement made by someone who relies on a spreadsheet of made up manufacturers numbers instead of RL experience and knowledge.
Have you noticed all the truck/fifth wheel combos on the road with you?

[MikeRP]

Originally Posted by NMWildcat

Definitely sounds like a blanket statement made by someone who relies on a spreadsheet of made up manufacturers numbers instead of RL experience and knowledge.
Have you noticed all the truck/fifth wheel combos on the road with you?

Hey you’ve seen my posts enough that you should know by now that’s not true.

However, if someone is upgrading to a HD truck, I always recommend 3500. It’s normally near the same cost.

The spreadsheet I have shows very well that Ford changes payload based upon tire capacity.

I have a Class A CDL since inception and when I was younger drove dump trucks and semi’s when needed. I’ve seen many many 2500’s hauling big campers safely. I had that problem w my 2008 2500 MegaCab Ram with about 1800 lb payload which was ridiculous.

Peace

[Bhrava]

Originally Posted by MikeRP

Hey you’ve seen my posts enough that you should know by now that’s not true.

However, if someone is upgrading to a HD truck, I always recommend 3500. It’s normally near the same cost.

The spreadsheet I have shows very well that Ford changes payload based upon tire capacity.

I have a Class A CDL since inception and when I was younger drove dump trucks and semi’s when needed. I’ve seen many many 2500’s hauling big campers safely. I had that problem w my 2008 2500 MegaCab Ram with about 1800 lb payload which was ridiculous.

Peace

Agreed with this. Not so much the gas models for the 3/4 ton series, but definitely with the Diesel options, you lose a LOT of payload because of it. Back in 2017 when I totaled my F150 in a ice storm, there was an F250 on the lot, a used one, I checked the payload after driving it, and it was a smidge over 2K which at that time was fine for our use, but then looked at a few new F150's and there were two XLT models that had higher payloads.

There was no way that truck, even with the long bed, was 5th wheel capable, just didn't have the payload, at least not the the majority of 5th wheels out there, maybe for 1/2 towables, provided they were high enough to clear the sidewalls, most are not.

OTOH there are some 1 tons that don't have enough payload. My 12 King Ranch SB only has 3441 payload, far less than I thought it would. It just squeaks by with the 3660 SUITE. With a full FWT it is 100 over GVWR.

[MikeRP]

Originally Posted by Bhrava

OTOH there are some 1 tons that don't have enough payload. My 12 King Ranch SB only has 3441 payload, far less than I thought it would. It just squeaks by with the 3660 SUITE. With a full FWT it is 100 over GVWR.

So you need to see my spreadsheet also. Ford is manipulating the payload w tire capacity. Interesting and I don’t know why.

And so the question is if you have a Ram SRW w 4156 payload and a Ford with 3400 lbs payload and you were worried about payload would you pick the Ram or Ford? Don’t think Ram vs Ford just payload.

Of course that’s an easy decision but in reality the Ram at 4200 is the same as a Ford at 3400. But I got that sticker! Haha

This to me proves the BS we’ve been sold.

[Bhrava]

11,500-3441=8059. Actual scale weight 8549. Thats with me and the 5th wheel and bakflip cover, which I removed, it weighed as much as the hitch.

It has zero to do with tires, but GVWR and Curb weight. Basic GVWR of 2012 SRW F350 is 11,500, dually 13,300. Payload is derived by subtracting the curb weight from GVWR. There are some trucks with a lower GVWR which can be ordered that way to avoid some states commercial vehicle fees and registrations, that doesn't change anything physically, just down rates the registration.

GAWR however do factor in tires, which typically combined are much higher than the GAWR is.

GVWR are derived by class of vehicle. Class 1 are passenger cars, 1/2 ton are 8500 or less, though many states have an 8000 pound limit for half ton trucks and why you see that the big three do not exceed the 8000 pound GVWR because in most states those vehicles would be considered Class 2 and prohibited from driving and parking on parkways and such.

Tires play little factor in GVWR and Payload calculations, and for the most part exceed any limits set by the manufacturer. You can manipulate numbers all you want, but the plain and simple truth is Payload = GVWR - Curb weight. The lighter the truck, the more payload it will have for that class.