These weights cant possibly be right.

[Mrs.Shockley]

Originally Posted by itat

Here is a link to the CAT scales instructions. I don’t recall exactly how much separation they have between the 3 platforms but the pictures suggest there isn’t much separation.

https://catscale.com/how-to-weigh/

No, the distance between platforms are just about like the expansion joints in concrete driveways.

[itat]

OK. Then if we assume your 2 trailer axles are close to the same weight and you had one on the 2nd platform and one on the 3rd platform, then your truck’s rear axle would have been in the 3500# to 4200# range. I suspect that your truck’s RAWR would be just under 4000# so with the WDH engaged you were OK.

[ependydad]

I created the calculator that you used. Looking at the weight slip, I agree with itat and Herk. You had to have had the trailer's axles on the same scale as the rear axle of the tow vehicle.

Unfortunately, without that being re-weighed, you won't be able to get meaningful info out of your weight slips (except for checking what the trailer's axle(s) are carrying with the WDH engaged vs. the trailer's GAWR).

Good for you for weighing, sorry it didn't go as well as you hoped!

[Gwiggels]

Not sure if this is really helpful or not, as i believe others on here have solved op's question.
But......
Here are my scale tickets from last year, when I had a 2014 f150 super crew 4x4 with 3.5 EcoBoost and a rockwood mini lite model 2507s. While not the same, it is a similar setup. I would expect the numbers to look a lot more like this. I am thinking as well as others, that the drive axle and trailer axle must have been in the same box.

Weights with the trailer are with the weight distribution hitch connected.
Sorry, I do not have a ticket with the trailer and truck without the WD hitch connected

[Larry0071]

Originally Posted by Mrs.Shockley

Here they are. Truck alone, without sway bars, with sway bars.

Here is how I cipher it out.... This is going to be close, but not "perfect". I bet when you re-measure you just about verify what I am saying here as being dang close to reality. There is some extrapolation going on from my part... so it's not gospel.

Truck is 5880 alone.
Trailer is 5,120 as weighed.
(I didn't decipher it without the WDH)

With WDH in play:
-440 lbs to rear axle
+180 lbs to front axle
4,200 lbs on trailer axles
920 ultimate tongue weight
480 lbs seen to rear axle after WDH
3220 lbs on front axle with WDH
3020 lbs on rear axle with WDH
17.9% tongue weight.

[Mrs.Shockley]

Originally Posted by Larry0071

Here is how I cipher it out.... This is going to be close, but not "perfect". I bet when you re-measure you just about verify what I am saying here as being dang close to reality. There is some extrapolation going on from my part... so it's not gospel.

Truck is 5880 alone.
Trailer is 5,120 as weighed.
(I didn't decipher it without the WDH)

With WDH in play:
-440 lbs to rear axle
+180 lbs to front axle
4,200 lbs on trailer axles
920 ultimate tongue weight
480 lbs seen to rear axle after WDH
3220 lbs on front axle with WDH
3020 lbs on rear axle with WDH
17.9% tongue weight.

So the tongue is a little heavy since you want 10 to 15% tongue weight. We had dumped all our tanks, so there was pretty much nothing in the rear of the trailer. That's where the bathroom is so nothing much is stored there of any weight and there isn't any outside storage in the back.

Still, that's a whole lot better than seeing something telling me I've got 2,000 extra pounds on my rear axel!

I will be interested in seeing the difference a proper weigh will show. Thank you all!

[Larry0071]

Originally Posted by Mrs.Shockley

So the tongue is a little heavy since you want 10 to 15% tongue weight. We had dumped all our tanks, so there was pretty much nothing in the rear of the trailer. That's where the bathroom is so nothing much is stored there of any weight and there isn't any outside storage in the back.

Still, that's a whole lot better than seeing something telling me I've got 2,000 extra pounds on my rear axel!

I will be interested in seeing the difference a proper weigh will show. Thank you all!

Yea, I had to start with your empty truck readings, seeing as how they are the only fixed constant. Then I can see that both with and without WDH, you have 11,000 LBS. So it was easy to see the ultimate trailer weight by subtracting the empty truck from it. That became the new constant.

Then you had the real front and rear axle empty truck weights, and while the rear axle with trailer was garbage data.... the front axle appears to be very correct. So again, we can back calculate the rear axle because we have the trailer axle weight.

My way is using the available known data to solve for the unknowns.... and I'll repeat that there is some assumption factor in there. But I really do not think I am off by a whole bunch at all. I am now really interested in seeing the corrected CAT scale readings to see if I nailed it!

[Mrs.Shockley]

Originally Posted by Larry0071

I am now really interested in seeing the corrected CAT scale readings to see if I nailed it!

LOL! Well you'll have to wait. It'll be a bit before we get our rig re-weighed. But I promise to find this post and let you know.

[Larry0071]

Originally Posted by Mrs.Shockley

LOL! Well you'll have to wait. It'll be a bit before we get our rig re-weighed. But I promise to find this post and let you know.

So, I ran this all one more time, and will explain how I come by my numbers better... same results.... but trying explain better.

Truck weighs 5880 total. Fact.
Front axle bare truck 3340 Fact.
Rear axle bare truck 2540 Fact.
Trailer as weighed 5120. Fact.

----GOING INTO BACK CALCULATING NOW----

Trailer axles 2100 each (4200 total) with WDH compared to the 1840 each with no WDH or 3680 lbs. NOT FACT, GUESSING THAT YOU HAVE ONE TRAILER AXLE ON ONE SCALE PLATE, OTHER ON REAR AXLE SCALE PLATE.
Trailer weight of 5120 (FACT) - WDH axle weight of 4200 (BASED ON 2 x 2100 LBS) = 920 to tongue based on assumed axle weights and factual known unit weight.
(Note that prior to WDH, there was around 1440 tongue weight.)
Trailer tongue weight with WDH active is 920.
So you transferred 520 lbs of the 1440 lbs tongue weight to the trailer axles with the WDH, so 920 lbs tongue weight remains.
Front axle has 120 lbs still removed of the original empty axle load with the WDH installed and this is transferred to rear axle, so rear axle sees this as well as tongue weight with WDH.

3580 (rear axle includes 920 tongue and front axle transfer)+4200 (trailer axles)+3220 (front axle)=11,000 lbs.

You have 920 Tongue Weight.

You have around 17.9% tongue weight.

I feel 99.99% confident in these numbers. The numbers all work, the with WDH CAT scale provided rear axle weight minus the assumed trailer axle weight provided by the CAT Scale, it gives you...... 3580. It is correct. You can count on it.

Clear as mud?

[Larry0071]

Hey... did you calculate the tongue weight without the WDH???? 1440 lbs is 28% tongue weight. And it's 1440 lbs of payload! That pretty much destroys any half ton truck from legally pulling the trailer with 2 adults as they range from 1,100 lb to 1,800 lb payload. 2 adults at 200 lbs and not a single item in the back seat or bed of truck puts you at 1,840, or the VERY top edge of half ton payload ratings. Thank goodness for those WDH things! That set you at 920 lb payload, so depending on your trucks yellow drivers door sticker.... you might actually be able to legally ride in the truck! My own truck.... not legally! I am at 1100 lb payload.

Your 17% might be made right by adjusting your WDH head down one set of grooves to rotate the spring bars down a bit more and place a little more load to the spring bars when cranked up into the cams. You have margin in the trailer axles to absorb more load. If you can, transfer more weight back onto the trailer and then go back to the scales and see if you can get into that desired 10%-15% tongue weight. Really though.... 17% isn't horrible. But.... I bet you'll buy and add more "stuff" to the trailer as time passes. So may as well adjust now knowing that you'll only get heavier from here.

I actually had 2 more engineers verify my work (Standard practice, any engineering calc must be independently verified 2 times here). It is sound data. You really do not need to go back to the scales. All of the information you wanted was there in the numbers, it just need decoded.

They actually paid 3 of us to sit around and work on calcs for your travel trailer today. You owe us $1500!

[Mrs.Shockley]

Originally Posted by Larry0071

Hey... did you calculate the tongue weight without the WDH???? 1440 lbs is 28% tongue weight. And it's 1440 lbs of payload! That pretty much destroys any half ton truck from legally pulling the trailer with 2 adults as they range from 1,100 lb to 1,800 lb payload. 2 adults at 200 lbs and not a single item in the back seat or bed of truck puts you at 1,840, or the VERY top edge of half ton payload ratings. Thank goodness for those WDH things! That set you at 920 lb payload, so depending on your trucks yellow drivers door sticker.... you might actually be able to legally ride in the truck! My own truck.... not legally! I am at 1100 lb payload.

We don't intend to ever NOT use the WDH, so yeah...thank goodness. We're not going to fit the 200 lb people portion of that. I have the numbers from the door sticker written down, but I don't remember them off the top of my head. I'm sure the payload was something like 1850 or so. The hitch itself is HEAVY. Like 100 lbs probably, sway bars and all. My husband has to put it on and take it off because I can't lift it.

Your 17% might be made right by adjusting your WDH head down one set of grooves to rotate the spring bars down a bit more and place a little more load to the spring bars when cranked up into the cams. You have margin in the trailer axles to absorb more load. If you can, transfer more weight back onto the trailer and then go back to the scales and see if you can get into that desired 10%-15% tongue weight. Really though.... 17% isn't horrible. But.... I bet you'll buy and add more "stuff" to the trailer as time passes. So may as well adjust now knowing that you'll only get heavier from here.

That was the purpose of weighing it. It was pretty dry weight. Tanks were empty and we had a bit of camp furniture, etc, in the kitchen/center area. We do medieval reenactment, so our idea of camp furniture is a bit different, like wooden chairs, etc. Definitely, most weight is to the front of the trailer though. Almost all the outdoor storage is there.

I actually had 2 more engineers verify my work (Standard practice, any engineering calc must be independently verified 2 times here). It is sound data. You really do not need to go back to the scales. All of the information you wanted was there in the numbers, it just need decoded.

They actually paid 3 of us to sit around and work on calcs for your travel trailer today. You owe us $1500!

Dude. I'm a lawyer. I don't owe you a dime...but to be nice I'll give you advice on your unemployment claim when your boss finds out you were screwing around on the internet instead of working.

[itat]

Originally Posted by Mrs.Shockley

We don't intend to ever NOT use the WDH, so yeah...thank goodness. We're not going to fit the 200 lb people portion of that. I have the numbers from the door sticker written down, but I don't remember them off the top of my head. I'm sure the payload was something like 1850 or so. The hitch itself is HEAVY. Like 100 lbs probably, sway bars and all. My husband has to put it on and take it off because I can't lift it.

That was the purpose of weighing it. It was pretty dry weight. Tanks were empty and we had a bit of camp furniture, etc, in the kitchen/center area. We do medieval reenactment, so our idea of camp furniture is a bit different, like wooden chairs, etc. Definitely, most weight is to the front of the trailer though. Almost all the outdoor storage is there.

Dude. I'm a lawyer. I don't owe you a dime...but to be nice I'll give you advice on your unemployment claim when your boss finds out you were screwing around on the internet instead of working.

Don't worry, they already charged their time to a client!!

[Larry0071]

Originally Posted by itat

Don't worry, they already charged their time to a client!!

We have no clients. Nuclear power plant, response engineering.... We do busy work until something fails and then we respond in rapid fashion and stay involved 24/7 until the problem is put to bed.

[Mrs.Shockley]

Originally Posted by Larry0071

We have no clients. Nuclear power plant, response engineering.... We do busy work until something fails and then we respond in rapid fashion and stay involved 24/7 until the problem is put to bed.

Well pfft. You weren't doing anything else anyway then.

[Larry0071]

Originally Posted by Mrs.Shockley

Well pfft. You weren't doing anything else anyway then.

No. Not at all. There were 2 mechanical engineers and 1 professional engineer deeply studying your Cat Scale invoices. We then spent at least 4 hours discussing our interest in how well the weight distribution system was able to effectively remove payload from the rear axle and shift to the trailer frame as well as replace the weight in your steering axle.

Since none of us have actually used AND weighed a vehicle to truly witness the effects, we were very interested in this exercise and witnessing the effects by the numbers.

2 of us use a WDH somewhat regularly. We personally have never weighed the system to prove or disprove the effects.

Now I'm going to have to test mine too see what it is actually providing.

[Mrs.Shockley]

Originally Posted by Larry0071

No. Not at all. There were 2 mechanical engineers and 1 professional engineer deeply studying your Cat Scale invoices. We then spent at least 4 hours discussing our interest in how well the weight distribution system was able to effectively remove payload from the rear axle and shift to the trailer frame as well as replace the weight in your steering axle.

Since none of us have actually used AND weighed a vehicle to truly witness the effects, we were very interested in this exercise and witnessing the effects by the numbers.

2 of us use a WDH somewhat regularly. We personally have never weighed the system to prove or disprove the effects.

Now I'm going to have to test mine too see what it is actually providing.

How many engineers does it take to calculate hitch weight? There has to be a joke in there somewhere.

[Larry0071]

Originally Posted by Mrs.Shockley

How many engineers does it take to calculate hitch weight? There has to be a joke in there somewhere.

If you knew how boring our job really was, you would understand why doing a little bit of grade school math is exciting.

We spend most of our lives trying to find replacement parts for obsolete things in a 40 year old Power plant. And then we spend a lot of time also trying to justify why the new things can be retrofitted in place of the old stuff that is not made anymore. And we have dig pedigree, specs, dimensions, heat numbers, alloys and generally exercise our Google-foo since half of the suppliers closed up many years ago. We do failure analysis, fatigue cycling estimates and all kinds of boring and repetitive things if little interest.

Trucks and towing are fun and interesting. Farm tractors and welding are the best ever. We have a core group of redneck engineers who own big Jeep's, Cummins diesels, farm tractors, big acreage, shoot guns, drink beer and general enjoy the rural American life. I'm one of the group.

[Scrapper]

Originally Posted by Larry0071

If you knew how boring our job really was, you would understand why doing a little bit of grade school math is exciting.

We spend most of our lives trying to find replacement parts for obsolete things in a 40 year old Power plant. And then we spend a lot of time also trying to justify why the new things can be retrofitted in place of the old stuff that is not made anymore. And we have dig pedigree, specs, dimensions, heat numbers, alloys and generally exercise our Google-foo since half of the suppliers closed up many years ago. We do failure analysis, fatigue cycling estimates and all kinds of boring and repetitive things if little interest.

Trucks and towing are fun and interesting. Farm tractors and welding are the best ever. We have a core group of redneck engineers who own big Jeep's, Cummins diesels, farm tractors, big acreage, shoot guns, drink beer and general enjoy the rural American life. I'm one of the group.

And you still find time to work at a power plant?

[itat]

...........

[Larry0071]

Originally Posted by Scrapper

And you still find time to work at a power plant?

Work is a really loose term....