Time for a new Truck!

[Hersbird]

I have a diesel but will defend the gasser here. When people say they dont have the power of the diesel they are just ignoring physics. HP is a measurement of work over time, it is the only measurement of "power". Torque is great but it is a measure of force, not until the force moves does it become power and 400hp is 400hp no matter how it happens. So those saying the gas doesn't have the power are arbitrarily limiting themselves to some low rpm where the gas doesn't have the power. Let it rev as it's designed and it makes the power, add in these new 8-10 speeds and it will pull just fine.
Now it will never be as efficient as a diesel but I just have issue with power. Also I agree, unless you are talking some stock 5.0 mustang from the 80's your 5.9 isn't dusting any modern 5.0 mustang in any form of speed contest, these new musclecar are flat out the quickest and fastest ever out of Detroit.

[goduc]

I came from a 350/800 CTD to a 410/429 6.4. Same 2500 CC LB. I can tell you that even at 4800-5000 rpms pulling the same 9300 lbs 5er up the same grades that the 6.4 won't go as fast.
Not quite understanding your power analogy. I have no problem putting the pedal down, but you can only squeeze so much juice out of a beet.

[stephndudb]

Originally Posted by M109Rrider

Being someone who might be in the new truck market soon, how heavy are the trailers you are towing with your gassers? I guesstimate mine to be 11-12k and am seriously considering a gas engine....not brand loyal but leaning towards a Ford.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Forest River Forums mobile app

9500# fifth wheel, GMC 3500 dually with the 6.0

[aceinspp]

Originally Posted by goduc

I came from a 350/800 CTD to a 410/429 6.4. Same 2500 CC LB. I can tell you that even at 4800-5000 rpms pulling the same 9300 lbs 5er up the same grades that the 6.4 won't go as fast.
Not quite understanding your power analogy. I have no problem putting the pedal down, but you can only squeeze so much juice out of a beet.

You haven't seen what they have done to improve gas engines. My Chevy 2500 6.0 with 4:10 gear could keep right up with your rig. And I'm towing my 9000# tt and doing it at 4800rpm on a 6% grade. Later RJD

[goduc]

Originally Posted by aceinspp

You haven't seen what they have done to improve gas engines. My Chevy 2500 6.0 with 4:10 gear could keep right up with your rig. And I'm towing my 9000# tt and doing it at 4800rpm on a 6% grade. Later RJD

LOL I'm towing 9300 lbs with a 2018 2500 6.4 with 4.10 gears. Got you on the gearing part.

[Hersbird]

Originally Posted by goduc

I came from a 350/800 CTD to a 410/429 6.4. Same 2500 CC LB. I can tell you that even at 4800-5000 rpms pulling the same 9300 lbs 5er up the same grades that the 6.4 won't go as fast.
Not quite understanding your power analogy. I have no problem putting the pedal down, but you can only squeeze so much juice out of a beet.

If your truck is making the advertised 410hp it will pull just as fast up a hill as a diesel making 410hp. I think the current cummins in a pickup is actually rated at 390 hp and has less gear multiplication. There was an issue with the nanny's installed in the 6.4 closing down on the throttle. That was alarming to me when I saw the effect in the TFLtruck video. That truck probably wasn't making more than 250 hp. Supposedly it was fixed/changed/reprogrammed whatever. If it wasn't then that's still the problem, but from a physics standpoint, 410 hp is 410 hp no matter if it's made by a diesel or a 200 French bicyclists on a giant banana seat.

[Hersbird]

https://www.tfltruck.com/2016/07/201...towing-review/
This is an apples vs apples test gas vs diesel. You see the gas with more hp even though much less torque pulls the gauntlet faster. That is even at high altitude where the non-turbo gas will be at a disadvantage to the turbo on the diesel, something like an ecoboost Ford will be even better on those high altitude passes.

[Cypressloser]

Originally Posted by Hersbird

If your truck is making the advertised 410hp it will pull just as fast up a hill as a diesel making 410hp. I think the current cummins in a pickup is actually rated at 390 hp and has less gear multiplication. There was an issue with the nanny's installed in the 6.4 closing down on the throttle. That was alarming to me when I saw the effect in the TFLtruck video. That truck probably wasn't making more than 250 hp. Supposedly it was fixed/changed/reprogrammed whatever. If it wasn't then that's still the problem, but from a physics standpoint, 410 hp is 410 hp no matter if it's made by a diesel or a 200 French bicyclists on a giant banana seat.

Your statement is partially correct. It is true a horsepower is a horsepower no matter where it comes from. The big difference between gas and diesel performance is that the gas engine develops top torque near the top rpm and struggles to hold it when the going gets tough where the diesel engine holds it's maximum torque well below the max. rpm and can hold it throughout a much wider rpm range. This is one of the main reasons why we even have diesel engines to do the heavy lifting. Also, because of the additional mass of the diesel and the much lower rpm at max. torque it has a lower risk of overheating when it has do work at maximum torque for a prolonged time.

A well appreciated side effect of the diesel engine is that it can be used very effectively for braking, either with an exhaust brake system or engine braking, a gas engine can't do this and has to rely on the transmission and the service brakes to slow the vehicle down. In a nutshell, horsepower gets you going torque gets you over the hill.
The picture below gives a general idea.

[Hersbird]

Originally Posted by Cypressloser

Your statement is partially correct. It is true a horsepower is a horsepower no matter where it comes from. The big difference between gas and diesel performance is that the gas engine develops top torque near the top rpm and struggles to hold it when the going gets tough where the diesel engine holds it's maximum torque well below the max. rpm and can hold it throughout a much wider rpm range. This is one of the main reasons why we even have diesel engines to do the heavy lifting. Also, because of the additional mass of the diesel and the much lower rpm at max. torque it has a lower risk of overheating when it has do work at maximum torque for a prolonged time.

A well appreciated side effect of the diesel engine is that it can be used very effectively for braking, either with an exhaust brake system or engine braking, a gas engine can't do this and has to rely on the transmission and the service brakes to slow the vehicle down. In a nutshell, horsepower gets you going torque gets you over the hill.
The picture below gives a general idea.

True, except the 6.4 HP curve looks flat as well like the latter. This is the truck 6.4 not the SRT 6.4 which is also pretty flat but peaks at 485hp. It also has variable valve timing which can really flatten out the curve and finally we are talking about a big displacement motors, it isn't a 2.0 4 cylinder.
https://www.allpar.com/mopar/V8/truck-hemi.html

[spock123]

Buy what you like and can afford. If I ever trade my Silverado 3500 SRW diesel it will be for another diesel and probably a SRW. The only thing I would change is I would get a crew cab instead of the extended cab that I have now. I like a long bed as I need more bed for my stuff. Don't let someone talk you into something you don't want. My son has a 2500 gas, it pulls his camper just fine

[pd2436]

Just finished a 1200 mike trip towing a 7000 lb loaded TT with my 2015 Chevy 2500 hd gasser. Average about 8.8 mpg entire trip. No problems with hills or smoky mountains.

[kollinr]

I have been thinking of trading up from my '07 Tundra with a 5.7 to a Ram CTD or the 6.4 but after seeing the mpg's people are getting it doesn't seem to make sense. I get about 9 average towing my Wildcat 24RG that's weighing in at about 8500lbs depending on the day. It will keep accelerating up hill at 4000rpm all day long so it's not lacking power and gets approximately the same mpg as the different Rams. Please tell me why still need a new Ram because I have the itch for one anyway.

[Wicked Ace]

Originally Posted by RB19RR

RIDE....Not even close, this new truck is a "cadillac" ride. Even though it has nearly 1000 pounds more payload, these new coil springs really soak up the bumps

What is your sticker payload? Interested in one myself.

[MikeRP]

Well I will chime in here. My brother and I just did this calculation on his new Dodge 6.4l 3500 crew cab with the .373 rear end. For towing it has about 4000 lbs payload. He upgraded his ecodiesel and he has a 9000 lb trailer. For towing, we think when you go over around 13000 lbs - you should go diesel.

But the numbers are (approx.) about @ 180000 miles if the fuel prices are the same to make up 10000 dollars. If diesel is .50 cents a galloon more it’s near 250,000 miles assuming 5 mpg less on average for the gasser.

The 6.4l pulls strong mabye stout is the right word. I know nothing had the joy of a CTD under the hood but that 6.4 sounds great! Congrats on the truck.

If you are going to keep the truck long term, we believe gas is the way to go and make no mistake about this, we are both diesel fanboys.

We have both owned 2 dodges each with the CTD and the ecodiesel. It’s too bad you can’t get the ecodiesel in the Ram 3500 srw.

[powerhaulic]

Originally Posted by RB19RR

Took me three months of agonizing decision to get here. Cost and complexity of new diesels led the decision.

Fuel cost as you can see above. Not a big deal, but I take lots of long trips and it will add up.

Cost of diesel engine VS gas.....Best I could find was an $8,000 delta. Shopped a dozen dealers looking for a deal.

Complexity of new diesels....The new diesels with particulate filters, DEF, limp home, etc is just more than I wanted to deal with. Of the 6 friends I have with 2016+ Ram diesels, ALL have had issues in these areas. Scared the heck out of me!

Future repair costs.....For $4000 I can buy unlimited mileage, lifetime, bumper to bumper repair on a gas truck. Only thing not covered are tires, windshield wipers and brake pads. Not offered on diesel for any amount of $$. Every time something failed on my diesel it was well north of $1000. No matter how minor the issue. When I looked over the repairs I have paid on my 2006 over the 12 years of ownership I was shocked. I had no idea how much it had cost me to keep this truck running. But not one repair on the engine....Everything else around it failed at least once!

Like I said, it was an agonizing decision. Lots of test drives of both gas and diesel (drove the car salefolks crazy!) Went back and forth a dozen times....Lots of interviews with 6.4L owners that are towing more than I will helped me make the decision.

Hope I made the right decision......So far I'm pleased!

Per the red quote, You still are shopping a Dodge????
I had two Dodges, never again you are correct the truck falls apart. Ridiculous failures at much too low mileage.

[kennyairport]

[QUOTE=MikeRP;1858193]Well I will chime in here. My brother and I just did this calculation on his new Dodge 6.4l 3500 crew cab with the .373 rear end. For towing it has about 4000 lbs payload. He upgraded his ecodiesel and he has a 9000 lb trailer. For towing, we think when you go over around 13000 lbs - you should go diesel.

was he pulling the 9000 lb with the Ecodiesel?

[MikeRP]

Yes he knew it was borderline, the ecodiesel was definitely strong enough and if it would have had the air bag system installed, he might have felt fine with the truck, but without the air bags, it did not handle well enough for him and since he was borderline on the weight he upgraded his truck.

I love his new truck and now I’m jealous lol.��

[irishtom29]

It’s worth noting that with 3/4 ton trucks gassers have considerably more payload than diesels. I’ve seen 3/4 ton diesels with a mere 2200 pounds payload. I often see people pulling large 5Ws with 3/4 diesels and I know they’re overloaded. Evidently many people have focused on how much they can pull but neglected how much they can carry.

[Major Malfunction]

Originally Posted by kollinr

I have been thinking of trading up from my '07 Tundra with a 5.7 to a Ram CTD or the 6.4 but after seeing the mpg's people are getting it doesn't seem to make sense. I get about 9 average towing my Wildcat 24RG that's weighing in at about 8500lbs depending on the day. It will keep accelerating up hill at 4000rpm all day long so it's not lacking power and gets approximately the same mpg as the different Rams. Please tell me why still need a new Ram because I have the itch for one anyway.

I have a Coachman Apex 300BHS. Weighs about 7000 lbs fully loaded for a week or two adventure. Last summer, took it on a 7500 mile 3 week cross country trip towing it with my 2015 Ram 2500 6.7 CTD.

Even when it was 110 degrees out out West and climbing into the mountains, that Cummins pulls like that trailer isn't even back there. Overall I averaged about 13 mpg and I can say without a doubt that pulling that with a half ton gas engine would have been sloooooow and most likely overheated I was really slowing down. I was able to climb the mountains going north out of Salt Lake City at 60 mph with the AC on while all the tractor trailers and other travel trailers were in the in the slow lane doing 25 mph. It was over 100 degrees out and that climb is insane. I just set the cruise and blew right by them all. I ran about 10 degrees hotter than I normally do.

And the exhaust brake!!! That thing is just awesome. Nevermind tow/haul mode. With the exhaust brake, I can just set the cruise at whatever speed I want to go down a hill and the truck's brains do the rest by applying the exhaust brake as needed. No tapping the brakes or constantly changing gears. Or I can just take my foot off the gas and the exhaust brake will slow me down like I threw out an anchor.

And one other great thing I love about diesel on a long trip pulling a trailer. I got a Pilot/Flying J account card that lets me go through the big rig lanes. No worrying about trying to jockey around my crew cab truck and 35' trailer around the gas pumps out front and wondering if I'm going to be able to make the turn, is the pump on the right side, or will I be able to get out. Instead I can pull right through, fill my diesel tank in like a minute, and also they have DEF on tap, if needed.

I had a half ton gas that got about 8-9 mpg on flat highway pulling the same trailer. And what was with a 3.92 rear, 8 spd automatic, and 5.7 Hemi. There's no way I will ever go back to a gasser if I'm pulling 7000 lbs or more. Diesel all the way.

[Major Malfunction]

[QUOTE=kennyairport;1858281]

Originally Posted by MikeRP

Well I will chime in here. My brother and I just did this calculation on his new Dodge 6.4l 3500 crew cab with the .373 rear end. For towing it has about 4000 lbs payload. He upgraded his ecodiesel and he has a 9000 lb trailer. For towing, we think when you go over around 13000 lbs - you should go diesel.

was he pulling the 9000 lb with the Ecodiesel?

yeah I looked at the Ecodiesel and I know the max was like 8400 lbs or something. I was scratching my head thinking I can get a Hemi with a 3.92 rear and 8 spd auto that can tow over 10,000 lbs or I can get the EcoDiesel and be limited to 8400 lbs. I would think I should be able tow more with a diesel than a gas, not less.

I upgraded to a Ram 2500 CTD and my tow rating is now over 17,000 lbs. It pulls my 7000 lb trailer like its not even back there.