To delete or not

[67L48]

Originally Posted by Springerdad

VW knowingly lied [...]

You can't unknowningly lie. That wouldn't be a lie ... it would just be inaccurate. I'm not really correcting you ... it's just an excuse for one of my favorite Seinfeld moments:

[The Evil Twin]

Originally Posted by Jim34RL

This was during the regeneration process every 200 miles or so, when towing.

Holy carp! 200 miles?!? My truck does it every 500 but only because that is the maximum distance between regens by programming. I rarely see more than 60% DPF saturation while towing. I'll watch it rise and fall as I drive. Still average 12-13 mg towing because the regen shuts down pretty quickly.

[Hersbird]

Originally Posted by Springerdad

VW knowingly lied and cheated on their emissions certifications tests. SHAME on them. Period. If they couldn't build an EPA compliant vehicle then they shouldn't have bothered to bring it here.

Oh they built emissions compliant vehicles, they just added multiple tunes to the computer. Almost all cars are capable of that, and actually do use multiple tunes. Where they cheated is that they had good MPG tunes that ran most of the time, and then good emissions tunes that ran when tested. I love the effort but it really did cost them a boatload of money. I think they more than paid their fair share of penalties compared to what other businesses and politicians get away with. Maybe they should have made it legal by adding an "off road" switch that changed the tunes and put the burden on the customer to use appropriately.

[Jim34RL]

Originally Posted by The Evil Twin

Holy carp! 200 miles?!? My truck does it every 500 but only because that is the maximum distance between regens by programming. I rarely see more than 60% DPF saturation while towing. I'll watch it rise and fall as I drive. Still average 12-13 mg towing because the regen shuts down pretty quickly.

Yes, I had an early 2008 6.7L Cummins, Dodge truck built in Sept 07 sold to me in Nov 07.

When we took my truck out west in 2008, to South Dakota with my first 5er. I was filling up about every 230 miles or so, and my fuel cost range from $104 to $128 a fill-up. I was putting in about 25 to 28 gallons a tank -full and the hand calculated fuel mileage was between 9.35 MPG to 9.89 MPG.

The next year in April 2009 the truck went under the knife for some very needed surgery. Than in 2009, we went out west again. My fuel mileage was between 11.77 MPG to 12.59 MPG and I was more comfortable to fill up around 275 miles or more.

What year of truck and engine make do you have?

[Slow Moon]

My TV is the diesel that supposedly needs the the delete more than any other--the F250 6.0L.

With no delete, my experience in my 2006 is a great running, great pulling, economic and reliable 115,000 miles; over 15,000 of that with a 7-ton 5er in tow. I suggest that proper maintenance is key.

The trouble with the 6.0L Superduty is that proper maintenance is not exactly what Ford says it is. The most important difference is that Ford's specified coolant is not compatible with the International engine, it will eventually clog the heat exchanger, which cuts off coolant flow to the EGR which can lead to catastrophic failure.

Ford refuses to specify the Caterpillar spec coolant the 6.0L is designed to use. Instead, they specify their own branded "Ford Gold" coolant using a totally different chemistry than Caterpillar.

Is it a conincidence that the engine that supposedly needs the delete more than any other is the engine for which the manufacturer provides bad maintenance instructions? I think not, and I suggest this is instructive on the issue of whether to delete.

[Mad Cow]

This is why I run a coolant that I use in my commercial trucks in all my personal vehicles. It meets the Cat EC-1, Detroit 93K217, Cummins CES 14603, and a host of other specs including current MAN and Mercedes specs. I contacted the coolant maker tech support and they confirmed it is great to use in Ford, GM, and Dodge vehicles. It is an all fleet coolant. My wife's 2006 Cadillac is using it. My 2015 Chevy 2500 is using it. And the wife recently picked up a 2017 Chevy Equinox and it will be getting the same coolant.

This coolant also has a 1 million mile / 8 year / 20,000 engine hour service life, whichever comes first. No additional supplements needed. And it is economically competitive with any other quality coolant one can get off the shelf.

[Slow Moon]

Thank You Mad Cow.

Very Interesting. I knew the Cat EC-1 Spec Coolant was best for my 6.0L Superduty, but I had heard nothing about how great it is for all those other vehicles. I will definitely keep this in mind at all my coolant change intervals.

[The Evil Twin]

Originally Posted by Jim34RL

Yes, I had an early 2008 6.7L Cummins, Dodge truck built in Sept 07 sold to me in Nov 07.

When we took my truck out west in 2008, to South Dakota with my first 5er. I was filling up about every 230 miles or so, and my fuel cost range from $104 to $128 a fill-up. I was putting in about 25 to 28 gallons a tank -full and the hand calculated fuel mileage was between 9.35 MPG to 9.89 MPG.

The next year in April 2009 the truck went under the knife for some very needed surgery. Than in 2009, we went out west again. My fuel mileage was between 11.77 MPG to 12.59 MPG and I was more comfortable to fill up around 275 miles or more.

What year of truck and engine make do you have?

Wow. I would have gutted the fish too. That's crazy.
We aren't comparing apples to apples, but I get 12ish towing at around 20-21k gross with a TT. That puts fill ups at 400 miles tops. I dont know if 5th wheel is better or worse aerodynamically speaking.
The engine is the previous gen 6.7 Powerstroke in a CC long box. It is tuned, but intact.

[Jim34RL]

In my humble opinion a 5er is worse for fuel economy when towing. All of my 5er (three) have been between 11'-6" to 13'-2" tall. This is a fair wind anchor behind you.

As an example when I was towing through New Mexico to get to Texas in 2015, I ran into a 30 to 40MPH head wind. I could actually see the OHD fuel mileage drop from 14.5 to 10.1 MPG's. My hand calculated fuel mileage went from 12.7 to 8.3 for that day only. We only had to go 200 miles that day so, a full tank of 34 gallons got me there!

[sfsgm]

Originally Posted by Springerdad

Also, it's against federal law to alter or remove emission control equipment on non off road vehicles. And you may have a hard time trading it in at a dealer one day. Remember they make you sign that little statement? Just sayin'.
I'm sure im going to get flamed for this. Fire retardant suit is on.

No flaming here, either. If he evers sells that truck and it gets into the hands of somebody that DOES have to go through emissions testing or has a collision and their is a lawsuit, somebody is going to have to pay the piper. And the cost of the violation is HUGE.

[johnruff]

Check out Powerstrokehelp.com. Bill Hewitt in Georgia has some very great insites into this. Also, remember that if you take it off, you probably will have to put it back on when you trade it in. When you take it off, you will also need a tuner installed to get the check engine light off. You will void any warranty. Some dealers may refuse to work on your truck. If there is ever a check on emissions for your truck, you will probably be fined and your truck impounded or at least that is what one video on youtube explained. It is easy to see that you have done it if you are blowing smoke so you may as well put stickers on the truck saying so. The EPA is already investigating shops and companies and fining them huge amounts. The newer trucks do not have all the issues as the early ones when the EPA rules first came out. Yes, you probably will need to clean or replace your EGR filter/cooler but what vehicle does not have maintenance? Your choice and plenty of people do it. I even had a dealer tell me to do it as well as a shop owner. Thought about it and decided not to. I will get it cleaned out when the time comes.

[Tacky]

If I suggested that I was going to stop emptying my black tank at the dump station, and just open the valve a little and let it dump on the road, everyone on this forum would be attacking me. But it seems that allowing excess pollution from a diesel truck is acceptable. It certainly is not acceptable to me!

[reevesfamily]

Deleted for reliability. Over 24mpg empty highway, 14 min towing the 10,500lb camper. Farm use.

[Carguy1965]

Not going to jump into the delete debate, its your truck, do what you like from that respect, but the argument you are cutting down on tailpipe emissions is just not legit. The DPF catches all that stuff until its so clogged it has to be cleaned out, so then we heat it up to 1500 degrees and spray it with processed cow pee. And then the whole mixture goes guess where, right out the tailpipe where it was going to go in the first place. Not to even mention the environmental impact of producing millions of gallons of DEF. That's really saving the environment.



Pumping all that already burned soot and fuel residue back through your engine is really good for it too.



Rub some engine oil after a change between your fingers. Do it with a non deleted engine and then do the same for one that has been deleted. It speaks for itself..

[jdunn68]

The 2 things that keep me from deleting are warranty and trade in. I just traded my 2013 in and the dealer asked if it's been deleted and I asked what would happen if it was an he said a 10,000 dollar deduction in the trade value, so for me that's enough to keep me from deleting.

[timm9]

I am not a mechanic in any way, shape, or form but do believe I have found a way to increase my mileage even if slightly.

While I have owned multiple diesel vehicles, they have all been heavy equipment for snow removal for over 20 years. This is my first diesel non-equipment vehicle. I have a MY 2011 Ram Crew Cab with Cummins Turbo, AT, with 120k on the clock. Fortunately, this model year does not have DEF which is now on its way out for newer units, thank god.

After the purchase I was very disappointed in my mileage (living at 4200 feet) unloaded and not towing and could barely get 12.0 to the gallon. We took our maiden voyage with the new TT and regardless of grades, elevations, etc. only saw 10.9 MPG.


After the trip I started doing research for possible options to improve mileage. I have no interest in rolling coal or having a million pounds of torque at the rear end. I would just like better fuel mileage. I have multiple family members with deleted Rams and are seeing 19 MPG to 22 MPG around town unloaded, and even better on the highway.

After doing a ton of reading I decided it was way too risky ($2,500 fine to the vehicle owner and $25,000 to the person that did the work) and started looking at the Emission Compliant Modules from the different providers. I have made multiple attempts to order the Module but the providers refuse to ship to me in California.

In one lengthy discussion with a Module provider, the provider kept telling me that if my goal was to increase mileage it was imperative that I ‘shimmed the Fuel Rail Pressure Relief Valve’ or that I might not see the improvement in mileage.

I went to their site and watch a Video of them placing the Value into a vise and forcing it to separate so that a shim could be installed altering the travel distance the interior spring travels inside the valve.

After watching the Video, I decided that I was very uncomfortable ‘mcgyvering’ a Valve that holds 30,000 PSI and started looking at the OEM Fuel Rail Pressure Relief Valve for replacement. The price of a new OEM Pressure relief Valve ranged from just under $600.00 to $85.00 and elected to purchase new.

I have replaced the OEM Fuel Rail Pressure Relief Valve with OEM new. I have also replaced the MAP Sensor with new. I have also removed, cleaned, and re-installed the EGR Valve and EGR Cooler as well as the Mass Air Flow Sensor which is due every 62,500 miles.


After doing all the above I did a test run. I filled the Truck in town and reset the EVIC (I know they are not accurate and do hand calc) and drove like a little old lady from 4200 feet in elevation to the valley floor (50 feet?) and then drove back hoping to see an improvement.


The test resulted in an increase of approximately 3.5 MPG but I was still skeptical, so I did a second test run with almost the exact same results. Prior to the changes I could not see more than 11.9 to 12.3 around town at 4200 feet. I am now seeing 14.3 to 15.5 in town depending on how heavy my foot is.

I have not yet towed our TT after the changes but will update the results once I do...

[DAHVGER]

do not delete it will cost big time!

[Skidooman]

Dont delete to save money, it will only cost you money in the long run if you plan to ever trade the truck in. If you plan to drive it until it dies, then go for it. You cannot trade a truck to any dealer that has been modified. A dealer is subject to very very steep fines if they sell a truck that has had the emissions modified. Even a used car dealer. However if you plan to keep it forever or dont mind paying to have it put back to stock when you are done, then you can make tons more power and get a little better fuel economy too if you delete and reprogram.

[postmandug]

I’m getting ready to go through the process with the same year truck and engine. My DPF is pretty much clogged. The cost to replace that at a dealer is in the $1500 range. The total delete including tuner, exhaust pipe and EGR delete kit will run me about $1700. No brainer for me. I will keep my truck until it dies or I do. I won’t run a hot tune on it, just the lowest I can get by with. (I sure as hell don’t need any more torque or HP than I already have).
No more DEF to buy, no more clogged DPF filter another 100K miles down the road. It won’t be blowing black smoke like a lot of trucks you see that are over tuned and just what the owners want.
I honestly can’t cannot see a downside to it.

[DAHVGER]

other than a $10000 fine and not being able to get inspected in a lot of states . It's a major polluter nothing wrong at all.