Tongue weight

[PapiG]

My TV is a 2017 Highlander.

5000lbs max with a 500lb tongue weight max.

The trailers we are looking at are:

Per the Forest River web site:
2021 R-Pod 196 , dry weight 3600, tongue 361.
&
2021 NoBo 19.5, dry weight 3456, tongue 365.

Saw a RP 196 in person, actual dry weight was 3,942, a full 342 lbs more than the advertised weight.

I there by assume that the tongue weight is also higher. Is that a correct assumption?

If I add in the LP, 20lb and a guesstimate of 65 for the battery The tongue weight is now 450, without any change from the published 365.

If I were buying the unit off the lot, I could get the actual tongue weight at a scale I suppose.

My tongue weight will also increase based on loading supplies... is there a way to estimate what tongue weight might be based on weight of my gear?

Here is my problem:

I plan to order one of the 2 above units, knowing delivery will be 6-9 months, as described today to me.

I worry that if I order, wait 9 months, then it arrives and with battery and LP is over my 500lb limit. Especially after loading gear.

Am I missing something?
Looking for thoughts and advice.

Thanks.

[flyflotrtim]

You should also add in the weight of your hitch and consider you may want a Weight Distribution Hitch which would add additional pounds. You are already very close to your stated max hitch weight without much safety margin. You can figure about 13% of your loaded supplies in the TT as additional tongue weight (10 - 15% generally recommended) So if you add 5-600 lbs of food, water, and misc. camping gear, you are going to be over your max tongue weight.

[ARhappycamper]

You cannot go by dry weight. Must use the GVWR of the camper.

[PapiG]

My WDHitch weighs 85lbs.

I hadn't realized that needed to be in the calculation. Thank you.

We previously owned a FR MicroLite. All anyone, salesmen, whoever, speak of, is dry weight and GVWR.

After towing thousands of miles I sold, as it just didn't towing well, yet was under my 5000lb max.

Now, while looking, I understand the reason I had issues previously was tongue weight, not Trailer weight. With my MicroLite I was well over 600lbs tongue weight..... scary to think about it.

In my opinion, there needs to be much more emphasis placed on tongue weight with smaller trailers that folks will tow with a small SUV, like a Highlander or 4Runner, both @ 5000/500 limits.

[PapiG]

My concern is hitch weight first, then actual overall weight.

The gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR) is the maximum operating weight/mass of a vehicle as specified by the manufacturer, not the actual weight of a trailer.

Originally Posted by ARhappycamper

You cannot go by dry weight. Must use the GVWR of the camper.

[REL]

Ball park. Take the dry weight and add 1k for hitch, propane, battery, water and everything you put in the trailer x 13%
You'll likely be over 500lbs..

[Mike134]

Originally Posted by REL

Ball park. Take the dry weight and add 1k for hitch, propane, battery, water and everything you put in the trailer x 13%
You'll likely be over 500lbs..

X2!!!!

I've also found adding 1000lbs to the dry weight works to calculate traveling trailer weight unless you're the type that packs 2 and 3 of everything "just in case"

[llr]

In general the GVWR is under 1,500lbs more then empty so it is a good approximation, if you happen to look at one with a much higher difference (payload) then I would add 1,000-1,500 to the empty. Then use 13% of that as the tongue weight, for 1 TT tongue weight should be between 10-15%.

I am not familiar with the Highlander, is that 500lbs with or without a WDH? Many trucks have about 500 without and higher with. You also need to pay attention to the payload on the Highlander as the TW comes off of that as well as anyone and anything in it an is generally the first limit you will hit.

[FrankG]

A couple of comments;

Was the RP-196 you looked at a 2021 and did it have any extra options?

There is supposed to be a full tank of propane included in the dry weight.

You can shed about 71 lbs off the direct tong weight by using a Anderson Hitch (51lbs) and a lithium Battery (28lbs).

With careful loading your selection of TT will be doable. Will it be a comfortable tow, I doubt it. Want a comfortable tow, hook your selected trailers to a 7,000 lb TV.

Lastly, The lamination plant for those units and the Surveyor, is the one that was destroyed by Fire Monday night. There are more uncontrolled cost increases coming. If you are ordering make sure your pricing is locked in.

[Mike134]

Since the WDH remains attached to the truck when you uncouple the trailer why are folks adding it's weight into tongue weight? It goes against payload of the truck.

[NJKris]

PapiG, this is the exact same problem I had, but lucky for me, I still had not bought a tow vehicle yet. I was determined to get a 4Runner. Glad I went with F150. Single axle trailer has my tongue weight well over 500 lb limit on 4Runner. I have dual GC batteries and bike rack on tongue. I'm guessing my tongue is pushing 700 with WDH, though I haven't weighed it yet.

[Chuck_S]

No excuse for not knowing the tongue weight.

(Available in several ranges.)

or

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nMoLA44lcgU

-- Chuck

[ependydad]

Originally Posted by PapiG

My tongue weight will also increase based on loading supplies... is there a way to estimate what tongue weight might be based on weight of my gear?

Yes, you can generally extrapolate loaded tongue weights from the dry tongue weight percentage:

Estimating Tongue/Pin Weight from Dry Weights - TowingPlanner

For travel trailers, assume a 1-2% increase in the dry percentage.

[ependydad]

Originally Posted by Chuck_S

No excuse for not knowing the tongue weight.
-- Chuck

How do you do that on a trailer the OP is ordering and it doesn't exist yet?

[NJKris]

I think he was talking to me. I know I'm within limits of my F150 with WDH, but I haven't done a weigh in fully loaded yet. And I'm not going to pay over a hundred bucks for a one use scale. Heading over to CAT scales this season.

[bikendan]

Originally Posted by PapiG

In my opinion, there needs to be much more emphasis placed on tongue weight with smaller trailers that folks will tow with a small SUV, like a Highlander or 4Runner, both @ 5000/500 limits.

Neither the RV Industry nor the Auto Industry are going to address this.
The Auto Industry continues to focus their marketing on towing capacity. I give Ford credit for seriously addressing payload capacity and has made it part of their marketing. The other manufacturers are now playing catch-up.
But the RV Industry will continue to market these heavy tongue weight single axle trailers to owners of smaller and less capable tow vehicles. They are the hot sellers now and the RV Industry doesn't care to warn buyers.

[Rorschach]

Like some others have said, some vehicles have a different allowable weight with a WDH. You still need to be within the payload rating of the vehicle.


I have a 19.5 and bought it specifically because it met my needs as far as layout and was within spec for my Ford Explorer that I had at the time. I was not going to get a new TV and camper at the same time.


The Explorer is probably very similar to your Highlander as far as ability. My experience: I was able to tow ok and we went on some long trips and did some mountains. The Explorer did the job, but I was asking a lot of it. If I towed on flat land, it did quite well, but it was noticeable with any incline and merging out onto highways was rough.



I knew that the Explorer was a short term problem and recently replaced it with an F150. The V6 SUVs can technically tow those kinds of campers, but it is not a good experience for sure.



My 0.02 cents.

[bikendan]

The problem is that younger buyers, that are the new hot market, have smaller tow vehicles with hitch receiver max capacities from 350lbs to 500lbs. They are attracted to these bigger single axle trailers, which have the axle set farther back. The GVWR numbers usually are workable but the real world tongue weights are much heavier than the uneducated newbie suspects.

[Qwkynuf]

Originally Posted by bikendan

Neither the RV Industry nor the Auto Industry are going to address this.
The Auto Industry continues to focus their marketing on towing capacity. I give Ford credit for seriously addressing payload capacity and has made it part of their marketing. The other manufacturers are now playing catch-up.
But the RV Industry will continue to market these heavy tongue weight single axle trailers to owners of smaller and less capable tow vehicles. They are the hot sellers now and the RV Industry doesn't care to warn buyers.

A couple of weeks ago I was filling up my wife's car at the local gas station when an F350 pulled up on the opposite side. He was towing a huge bumper-pull travel trailer. Big enough that his rig was blocking all of the pumps on that side.

On the front cap of the trailer it said "Cougar" in 12 inch tall letters, and under that, in slightly smaller text - "1/2 Ton".

I wandered over while he was pumping and said "Nice trailer! What does '1/2 ton' mean? is that the tongue weight?"

He laughed and said "Can you believe that they pretend that you can pull this with a half ton? It's 40 feet long! We had an F250 when we first got it, and that thing whipped us all over the road. The 350 is a lot better."

[TitanMike]

Originally Posted by NJKris

I think he was talking to me. I know I'm within limits of my F150 with WDH, but I haven't done a weigh in fully loaded yet. And I'm not going to pay over a hundred bucks for a one use scale. Heading over to CAT scales this season.

I use my Sherline scale regularly. Weigh tongue before hitting the road for trips that I have loaded up the pantry and storage areas for. Helps me rearrange things for better load balance.