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Old 07-23-2019, 10:17 AM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KyDan View Post
There is an active recent thread here-
http://www.forestriverforums.com/for...ml#post2143806\
about a half ton gas truck with tow/haul mode issues.

I'm starting this thread so as not to derail that thread. In that thread several folks mention that a gas engine has no real engine braking. Often the people who give this opinion are driving heavy rigs and diesels.

I'm driving a V8 5.6L GASSER with 7 sp tranny. I tow a 29' regular trailer that weighs around 7500 LOADED ready to camp.
On a 7000+ mile trip from KY north and then west all the way to the coast of Washington then south along US101 we encountered plenty of mountains. While we didn't cross the highest passes we did have several 6% grades and one or two as steep as 9% (I think it was 9-might have been 8...)
I never felt like I was over using my brakes. On many of the descents I only tapped my brakes and the tranny in tow haul mode down shifted appropriately and kept my speed where it needed to be.
I could feel plenty of engine braking.

Just saying you diesel guys who tow big rigs in the 12,000-15,000+ Lb range seem to look down on us guys who drive gassers. My truck tows and slows my 7500 LB trailer just fine- including reasonable engine braking when needed.
Other Dan, my 2014 GMC V8 with a 6-spd transmission has this "Grade Braking" feature and it's better than sliced bread. I'm so impressed with how it handles ye ol' downhill drag. It's smarter than the average driver.


The only issue I've had with this combination was a time or two in really hot Texas weather when the second downshift kinda slammed the shift when slowing for a traffic light in fairly heavy traffic. My son (a certified GM world class master technician) reminded me I could turn it off AND correlated it with the high temperature. I haven't turned it off since that night.
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Old 07-25-2019, 06:15 PM   #42
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Have towed my 5er with my 3.5eco for over 7000 kms and have had no issues with pulling or braking. Once the stock brakes are done I will get cross drilled and slotted rotors and heavier duty pads just so I dont go through stock ones

Have nothing but praise for my 3.5eco
If I was to ever get a heavier 5er then at that point I would move to a 3/4 ton

Safe travels
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Old 07-25-2019, 06:43 PM   #43
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There is a ton of misinformation in this thread.


Gas engines produce engine breaking because they have throttle plates that close and restrict air moving through the engine, which creates high vacuum which creates engine breaking. It creates resistance in the rotation of the crankshaft and that slows the vehicle.


Earlier diesel engines had no throttle plate to restrict the air movement and create vacuum and that is why Jake brakes and exhaust brakes came into use. They are another way of creating rotational resistance on the crankshaft and earlier diesels without either one had almost no engine braking. I had both 7.3 Power Stroke and 6.0 Power Stroke diesels and neither one had any engine braking to speak of.



Exhaust brakes close the exhaust flow and create the resistance in the rotational force.


Jake brakes hold the exhaust valves open creating the resistance.


Cummins diesels have variable veins in the turbo that close to create an exhaust brake. My 6.7 Cummins has very effective exhaust braking via the turbo.



Transmissions only change the gearing that affects the effectiveness of the engine or exhaust braking.
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Old 07-25-2019, 06:54 PM   #44
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Have a 3.5 L eco boost f150 and tow haul worked great in mountains pulling 2104s rock wood about 4800 lbs factory and gear. Not sure how it did it just know it did it great.
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Old 07-25-2019, 07:42 PM   #45
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I have the 6.4 Ram 2500 and have traveled 3500 miles so far in eastern USA good grades and truck performs great on grades in TH mode no problems. Later RJD
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Old 07-25-2019, 08:58 PM   #46
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One thing I do like about my Diesel is the fuel mileage compared to a gasser. Without the trailer, I get 21-23 miles per gal and with the trailer, 31 foot Salem, I get 17-19 miles per gal. Another thing I really like is the tow/haul switch and the JAKE brake(engine brake). I hardly ever have to hit the brakes going down hill.
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Old 07-25-2019, 09:02 PM   #47
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One thing I do like about my Diesel is the fuel mileage compared to a gasser. Without the trailer, I get 21-23 miles per gal and with the trailer, 31 foot Salem, I get 17-19 miles per gal. Another thing I really like is the tow/haul switch and the JAKE brake(engine brake). I hardly ever have to hit the brakes going down hill.
Ah... yes... you know we've all been waiting for a diesel guy to jump into the Tow/haul mode gas engine discussion.
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Old 07-25-2019, 10:50 PM   #48
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F 150 Tow Mode

Currently tow a Forest River Sandpiper Sport 18 T Toy hauler with my 2014 F 150 STX with no issues. Regularly travel up and down some pretty good grades on Ca. 101, I 15 and others in California. Wouldn't tow without using it. Sometimes folks just don't understand the operation of the technology built into todays trucks. Sometimes it's learning curve.
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Old 07-26-2019, 12:27 AM   #49
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I have a 2015 Chevy 2500HD, in tow/haul it also has engine braking. Works well on grades.

X2! Mine works great. I prefer to manually control it with the M mode, but it works. Even on 10% grades I only touch the brakes now and then for tight curves. Starting a downgrade at the correct speed increases effectiveness and keeps rpm in a more pleasant range (3500 or below).


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Old 07-26-2019, 12:29 AM   #50
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I have read through this "discussion" numerous times and have one confusing comment. My Forrest River 24' Class C is on a 2500 Series GM Van chassis. It has Tow Haul mode which I use religiously. What confuses me is other posters indicating that they use cruise control and Tow Haul and when they tap the brake, the trans downshifts. Mine sure doesn't. When I hit the brake in cruise, it drops out of cruise just like any other vehicle. What goes on here? is someone exaggerating or do some Chassis other than GM stay in cruise with Tow Haul and brakes applied.
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Old 07-26-2019, 01:39 AM   #51
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Agreed; while diesel engines have more compression than gas engines, both have engine braking power.
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Old 07-26-2019, 02:12 AM   #52
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Tennessee mountains

Growing up in the mountains of Tennessee we used to shake our heads at the flatland tourists on the side of the road with their brakes on fire. I do worry about downshifting when she spins up to 3,500 rpm or more and brakes are cheaper than trannys but when the brakes overheat and fade out on a downhill you are out of options. Last week in North Carolina I saw my first tractor trailer at the far end of a pea gravel runaway ramp. Glad he was ahead of me.
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Old 07-26-2019, 03:58 AM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KyDan View Post
There is an active recent thread here-
http://www.forestriverforums.com/for...ml#post2143806\
about a half ton gas truck with tow/haul mode issues.

I'm starting this thread so as not to derail that thread. In that thread several folks mention that a gas engine has no real engine braking. Often the people who give this opinion are driving heavy rigs and diesels.

I'm driving a V8 5.6L GASSER with 7 sp tranny. I tow a 29' regular trailer that weighs around 7500 LOADED ready to camp.
On a 7000+ mile trip from KY north and then west all the way to the coast of Washington then south along US101 we encountered plenty of mountains. While we didn't cross the highest passes we did have several 6% grades and one or two as steep as 9% (I think it was 9-might have been 8...)
I never felt like I was over using my brakes. On many of the descents I only tapped my brakes and the tranny in tow haul mode down shifted appropriately and kept my speed where it needed to be.
I could feel plenty of engine braking.

Just saying you diesel guys who tow big rigs in the 12,000-15,000+ Lb range seem to look down on us guys who drive gassers. My truck tows and slows my 7500 LB trailer just fine- including reasonable engine braking when needed.
My big rig is in the 129,000 lb range and I do look down on you...but that's only because I'm higher up in the air than you.

Honestly, I've seen the comments you are alluding to before but I think it is a vocal minority of diesel guys that need to brag it up.

I do think modern diesel engine braking is amazing. But that level of braking isn't necessary to comfortably and safely tow a camper. Common sense is more of a factor, in my opinion.
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Old 07-26-2019, 07:18 AM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jstich View Post
I have read through this "discussion" numerous times and have one confusing comment. My Forrest River 24' Class C is on a 2500 Series GM Van chassis. It has Tow Haul mode which I use religiously. What confuses me is other posters indicating that they use cruise control and Tow Haul and when they tap the brake, the trans downshifts. Mine sure doesn't. When I hit the brake in cruise, it drops out of cruise just like any other vehicle. What goes on here? is someone exaggerating or do some Chassis other than GM stay in cruise with Tow Haul and brakes applied.

I've never seen a cruise control that didn't drop out the instant you touch the brake pedal.
Mine sure does.
My truck will drop a gear if I tap the brakes in tow/haul mode but that's usually about all.
I also have manual thumb shift on my gear shift lever. If I'm in the down hill and need more slow down I thumb it down another gear.
I donno if you have the thumb shifter but you can always pull the gear shift lever down to a lower gear.
My previous 04 silverado had tow/haul but it didn't downshift for braking unless I pulled it down to a lower gear.
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Old 07-26-2019, 11:39 AM   #55
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You asked for it when you started the thread. If you didn't want replies from Diesel drivers, you should state it in you post.
Now some of these people have no idea how some of the engine brakes work for GAS or the better one but it is a fun read.
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Old 07-26-2019, 11:45 AM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Papadave View Post
Growing up in the mountains of Tennessee we used to shake our heads at the flatland tourists on the side of the road with their brakes on fire.
They have mountains in Tennessee?
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Old 07-26-2019, 01:14 PM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toma1953 View Post
You asked for it when you started the thread. If you didn't want replies from Diesel drivers, you should state it in you post.
Now some of these people have no idea how some of the engine brakes work for GAS or the better one but it is a fun read.
If GAS in the subject didn't give you a clue I doubt something buried in the text would have.
BTW I'm not the Dan who called you on it...
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Old 07-26-2019, 01:35 PM   #58
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Originally Posted by jstich View Post
What confuses me is other posters indicating that they use cruise control and Tow Haul and when they tap the brake, the trans downshifts. Mine sure doesn't. When I hit the brake in cruise, it drops out of cruise just like any other vehicle. What goes on here? is someone exaggerating or do some Chassis other than GM stay in cruise with Tow Haul and brakes applied.
I can't speak for the others, but in my case (Ram 3500 SRW 6.4L Hemi) it is an either/or proposition with tow/haul on in both cases. If I set the cruise control at 45, for example, going downhill then the cruise will downshift to keep "near" that speed. The other case is if I start braking frequently the computer will downshift to reduce my need to brake. I think both are a function of the tow/haul mode.
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Old 07-26-2019, 02:44 PM   #59
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One other benefit/issue of tow/haul on F-150's with adaptive cruise. When in t/h mode, the following distance is automagicly increased "slightly".
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Old 07-26-2019, 02:47 PM   #60
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