Tow Weight

[Izzy2]

Hello All,
We are looking to upgrade our Ram 2500 to a Ram 2500/3500 Diesel Engine. Looking at a 5th Wheel trailer that is dead weight of 14500/15000 lbs. When the specs on the truck list the following I believe what is listed below looks like we are underweight on the truck max trailer wt? Am I over thinking this. Thoughts.

Trailering
Dead Weight Hitch - Max Trailer Wt. (lbs): 5000
Dead Weight Hitch - Max Tongue Wt. (lbs): 500
Wt Distributing Hitch - Max Trailer Wt. (lbs): 23000
Wt Distributing Hitch - Max Trailer Wt. (lbs): 14020
Wt Distributing Hitch - Max Tongue Wt. (lbs): 2300
Wt Distributing Hitch - Max Tongue Wt. (lbs): 1402
Fifth Wheel Hitch - Max Trailer Wt. (lbs): 20210
Fifth Wheel Hitch - Max Trailer Wt. (lbs): 21180
Fifth Wheel Hitch - Max Trailer Wt. (lbs): 13840
Fifth Wheel Hitch - Max Tongue Wt. (lbs): 5053
Fifth Wheel Hitch - Max Tongue Wt. (lbs): 5295
Fifth Wheel Hitch - Max Tongue Wt. (lbs): 3460
Maximum Trailering Capacity (lbs): 23000
Maximum Trailering Capacity (lbs): 14020

[Kimber45]

All those numbers are useless without knowing the payload number of tow vehicle. a 15k 5th wheel with a 3/4 ton truck? Youre over payload for sure. Id be looking at a dually.

[bikendan]

Those look like website max numbers, based on a basic stripped-down truck. Not real world numbers.

[Bob K4TAX]

I'm not sure of what the "dead weight" term consists of. You should be looking at maximum GVRW for the truck and also maximum GVWR for the trailer.

If you go to the vehicle dealer with the VIN number they can look up the GVRW and the maximum tow weight for that specific vehicle. Usually, the Service Department will do this.

There should be a placard on the driver-side door which lists the GVRW and the cargo weight for the truck. The cargo weight is everything in the truck, such as passengers, fuel, and "stuff", along with the pin or hitch weight applied by the trailer.

The placard on the trailer, usually street side, should list the trailer DRY weight and the maximum GVWR weight for the trailer. The DRY weight is of no useful value as we don't often keep or use our trailer empty. Thus no water, no propane, no battery, no grey or black water contents.

The trailer GVRW should be about 80% of the maximum tow weight for the truck. Or the maximum tow weight of the truck should be 120% of the trailer maxim GVWR.

For example; for a truck with a maximum tow capacity of 9500 lbs, the maximum trailer weight, or 80%, would be 7600 lbs. And for 7600 lbs the hitch weight should be 10% to 15% for 760 lbs to 1140 lbs. The hitch weight becomes part of the truck's total cargo weight.

All of this is for your safety thus being able to safely tow and stop the rig. There is nothing like having real numbers and doing the math. Having things weighed is good, but still, never exceed the real numbers. In the event of an accident, there are legal ramifications.

[AKC]

Originally Posted by Bob K4TAX

I'm not sure of what the "dead weight" term consists of.

Dead weight means bumper pull, no WD hitch.

[Bob K4TAX]

Based on the original post referencing a 5th wheel, I can't view one of these as using a bumper pull.

As I stated earlier "get the real numbers for the trailer and for the tow vehicle and forget all the other mumble jumbo of numbers".

In other words, one has enough truck for the trailer or has too much trailer for the truck.

[CurtPutnam]

I have read that a value of 20% of the trailer's GVW is a useful estimate of the pin weight (the weight that the truck has to carry.)

Not knowing where you live, California requires a CDL for 5th wheels > 15,000 lbs. Your state may or may not have such a requirement - it is worth checking out.
Oh, and Weelcome to the forums

[Izzy2]

Thanks Kimber45. This was from a Ram 3500 with diesel engine. No Dulley. Has a 3.73 axle ratio.

[Izzy2]

Hi Bob, i may have used the term incorrect. I was referencing as 14600 lbs empty before loading it up. This extra weight for load was about 2700.
Thanks

[Izzy2]

CurtPutnam, Is that CDL for folks who live in CA or anyone driving a trailer heavier than 15K?
Thanks

[CurtPutnam]

Originally Posted by Izzy2

CurtPutnam, Is that CDL for folks who live in CA or anyone driving a trailer heavier than 15K?
Thanks

Just for folks with a CA license. The law is there but I do not see any roadside evidence of a crackdown.

[TheWolfPaq82]

Originally Posted by Izzy2

CurtPutnam, Is that CDL for folks who live in CA or anyone driving a trailer heavier than 15K?
Thanks

From California DMV.org:
A driver must have a fifth-wheel recreational trailer endorsement added to his/her Class C driver license to pull a fifth-wheel recreational trailer over 10,000 lbs., but not over 15,000 lbs. GVWR, which is not used for hire. This endorsement is not required if the driver has a commercial or noncommercial Class A driver license.

[CurtPutnam]

Originally Posted by TheWolfPaq82

From California DMV.org:
A driver must have a fifth-wheel recreational trailer endorsement added to his/her Class C driver license to pull a fifth-wheel recreational trailer over 10,000 lbs., but not over 15,000 lbs. GVWR, which is not used for hire. This endorsement is not required if the driver has a commercial or noncommercial Class A driver license.

I might be mistaken but I understood >10,000 lbs for bumper pull and >15,000 lbs for 5th wheel. Maybe things changed in the last year or so?

[mwdilday]

You should be looking at GVWR and not Empty plus estimated contents. You will ALWAYS be over your estimates and probably very close to the GVWR. Empty weight of a 5th wheel probably does not include options added it is normally the base unit. So if there is an added generator, washing machine, A/C then that is added to the empty weight before adding any contents. A 14,600 empty weight will probably be close to 18,000 when loaded with options, personal contents and water. You are definitely in one ton dually territory at 18,000 lbs.