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Old 08-24-2019, 11:21 AM   #1
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Towing fifth wheel with 3/4 ton gasser?

We are considering our first fifth wheel purchase and are interested in the experiences of others moving up from a trailer that have this particular type of tow vehicle. We have a 2019 3/4 ton Sierra Denali. We're looking at one of the smaller Rockwood Signature Series fifth wheels. Top loaded weight would probably be about 11,000 lbs.

I know I'll have enough hauling capacity, specs say up to 13,000 lbs. My concern is payload as well as the overall towing experience. Dealer sites show hitch weights dry and I suspect under-estimated. The one we're looking at shows 1,600 against a dry weight of 9,500. Isn't 20% of loaded weight considered more typical? Specs show I have almost 3,000 lbs of payload but with options, I suspect it's closer to 2,600. I've been to the scales with me and a full tank of gas and come in at 7,100 lbs. Gross is 9,500. If hitch weight is really going to be 2,100-2,200 lbs that doesn't leave much. Does hitch weight include the weight of the hitch itself? Another 100 lbs I'm guessing?

Finally, for those of you who do tow with a 3/4 ton gasser, all subjective input on the overall towing experience will be appreciated!
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Old 08-24-2019, 12:10 PM   #2
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Every post like this one should be accompanied by a picture of the tire and loading sticker placed on the driver’s side (front) door pillar. This is always the starting point to answering questions such as this.

Can you take a picture of yours and post it here?

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Old 08-24-2019, 12:28 PM   #3
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Yep, saying "specs show" isnt clear.
Are you saying that the driver's door yellow sticker says almost 3000lbs?
When someone says "about", it usually means the number is not from the sticker.
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Old 08-24-2019, 12:46 PM   #4
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OP did one better than the door sticker. He went to the scales and got actual weight. He stated his TV is 7100 lbs and gvwr is 9500 lbs. so he has ~2400 lbs for RV/hitch and his stuff. Sounds kinda close or over for sure.

I guess the question is where did he get his gvwr number? My 3/4 ton was 10K lbs.
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Old 08-24-2019, 12:57 PM   #5
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You will be sorta close on the dmv sticker. Also on trailer weight. Check the axle capacities and tires.

The Anderson Ultimate hitch weighs #27. Moves the rv back somewhat for better clearance with the cab. Easy to hook up.

As a 3/4 ton the rear may sag too much. Timbren overloads will fix that. Or air bags.

With that trailer weight I would think the rear end ratio is more economy orientated.

You are fine. Avoid heavy stuff in the front compartment. Nothing in the bed.
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Old 08-24-2019, 03:19 PM   #6
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The trailer is within the tow rating and you in the truck with a full tank leaves you with 2,400lbs of payload. Even if the pin weight comes in a little over 2000lbs you still have room for the hitch and wife but not much else. I wouldn't hesitate to load a current GM 3/4 to the GVWR and drive it all over...mine is near GVWR often and the ride, stability, handling, etc are great. It is not the same experience maxing out a half ton compared to a HD truck.

I can tell you the gas motor is going to behave a little differently with another 4000lbs to tug around as compared to your old trailer. My trailer weighs about 9500 wet with 1450 tongue weight and I have about 1000lbs more in the truck.

I have about 12,000 miles towing my setup...up and down the Appalachians and just came back from the Black Hills. The truck works great. The engine temp never moves, the transmission has never been above 185 and I don't spare the whip. Most of the time my truck pulls in 5th gear at just over 70mph. Grades will require 4th gear (once I think it dropped to 3rd) I have encountered stiff headwinds that required 4th gear but it will still hold speed if you don't mind given'r the boot. If it bothers you spinning those RPM's all you have to do is slow down.

I'm happy with the 6.0 pulling. There is nothing offered by Ford or Ram that can compare with the history of durability and reliability of that motor.

Good luck with your new trailer.
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Old 08-24-2019, 04:49 PM   #7
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Additional Info

Thanks to those who have replied. In terms of the door sticker, it says 2556 for payload. There is no additional information on the sticker other than tire PSI. That's why I went to the GMC specs which show a payload of 2943. That same spec sheet also shows a curb weight of 6532. GVW is 9500. I assume the difference in payload from the sticker is that the generic spec sheet curb weight doesn't account for options and mine is loaded. I've been to the scales multiple times so I know exactly what my truck actually weighs. Front axle capacity is 4800, rear is 6200. Tires are E rated on 20 inch wheels.

I'm pretty well versed in the whole payload/towing capacity factors and have been to the CAT scales with my trailer on multiple occasions to make sure I was set up right. We never travel with fresh water in the tank and I'd estimate rarely exceeding 600-800 lbs in cargo, 330 lbs in occupants and ~300 lbs in gas when tank is full based on fully loaded weigh ins. The only thing missing from the weigh in I mentioned initially (7100 lbs with me and gas) was my wife so add another 130 lbs. If my math is right that puts truck alone with occupants and gas at just over 7200 lbs and leaves me with about 2250 lbs of capacity for the hitch.

What I was really hoping to get more insight on was how actual pin weights compare to what the dealers try to tell you and what the experience has been like for others with similar setups. The need for airbags was mentioned and that is a concern. I should also have mentioned our other option is going to a larger bumper pull trailer that will weigh about 2200 lbs more than out current trailer when loaded (9500 vs 7300) and is 5 feet longer (35 ft vs 30 ft). I barely notice the current trailer back there, even in high wind or freeway traffic. Big fan of Equal-i-zer 4 point and would go to larger version if we went with the bumper pull.

Hopefully this additional information provides more clarity. Appreciate any further input.
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Old 08-25-2019, 01:47 PM   #8
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Usually, published pin wts are the actual pin wts measured for a particular floor plan with what ever options were included in that particular build. So at best, it will give you start. In my case for my recent purchase,. I reached out on this forum to others with my floor plan with similar options. I was lucky enough to have a few share their posted UVW, loaded and pin wts from the scales. My actuals turned out pretty close to my adjusted estimates based on the shared forum data.
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Old 08-25-2019, 01:59 PM   #9
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I think the rv is weighed at the factory as it leaves. Printed on the sticker. Good luck as to when they weigh.

Definitive info you are not getting here. All you can do is weigh the rv loaded.

Being a little over in a 3/4 ton is no big deal. Not so in a half ton.
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Old 08-25-2019, 02:40 PM   #10
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I wish they'd post the actual pin weight as well. It would help potential RV buyers.
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Originally Posted by tomkatb View Post
I think the rv is weighed at the factory as it leaves. Printed on the sticker. Good luck as to when they weigh.

Definitive info you are not getting here. All you can do is weigh the rv loaded.

Being a little over in a 3/4 ton is no big deal. Not so in a half ton.
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Old 08-25-2019, 02:46 PM   #11
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I have a 2016 F-250 6.2 gasser. My FW loaded is 11,000#. I had no problems driving over the (small) mountains through Pennsylvania.
I’m going west next summer and don’t anticipate any problems. You definitely have to use the R.P.M.’s, my redline is 6,000. A gas engine will never out perform a diesel pulling in mountains, but certainly is doable. My RVSEF weights are all within specs of my truck. They weighed each tire with a separate scale. Very accurate. You also could invest in a Sherline scale. You could get the actual pin weight of the dry trailer before you purchase. That might help out.
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Old 08-25-2019, 02:50 PM   #12
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I am not recommending my take on this to anyone, so you do as you wish. I own a 2015 Chevrolet 2500HD,crew cab with a 8 ft. bed, W/T or work truck, Duramax diesel with the 6 speed Allison transmission. I tow a 32 ft. Prime Time Crusader Lite, dry weight of 8084 lbs. I have a 60 gal. auxiliary diesel tank mounted in the bed. My hitch is standard 16K Reese hitch, no slider. I weigh around 300 lbs., wife close to that amount. Two dogs of 25 lbs. each. I figure the trailer loaded has an additional 700 to 1000 lbs. of weight. I travel with empty tanks. I have driven this setup all over the USA and to this day I have not weigh the truck or trailer. The truck has absolutely no issue towing the trailer in mountains or flat land. Stopping or braking is not a problem with just the exhaust brake to do so.
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Old 08-25-2019, 03:11 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by menekaunee View Post
I have a 2016 F-250 6.2 gasser. My FW loaded is 11,000#. I had no problems driving over the (small) mountains through Pennsylvania.
I’m going west next summer and don’t anticipate any problems. You definitely have to use the R.P.M.’s, my redline is 6,000. A gas engine will never out perform a diesel pulling in mountains, but certainly is doable. My RVSEF weights are all within specs of my truck. They weighed each tire with a separate scale. Very accurate. You also could invest in a Sherline scale. You could get the actual pin weight of the dry trailer before you purchase. That might help out.
Just be aware that a normally aspirated engine will lose power at a rate of 3% for every 1000 feet above sea-level so you will see around 15-35% loss depending on where you go. You will still be fine but just be aware that the performance will suffer. Even my diesel didn't perform as well at 7000-12000 altitudes.
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Old 08-25-2019, 05:28 PM   #14
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I think you will like the additional stability in towing a fifth wheel versus a bumper hitch. We have a 2008 RAM 3500 dually but the Cummins diesel, the megacab trcuk, the automatic transmission and all the weighted options cuts down on my cargo weight. So while I have a fairly light Rockwood fifth wheel (7,700# dry), it almost maxes out my one ton dually truck once the fifth wheel is loaded with clothes, food and propane. Pin weight is supposed to be about 1,350# but I am sure it's heavier. I always travel with water tanks nearly dry. No issues and the truck handles fine but the rear end does look a bit "loaded."

The pin weight and trailer weight is always more than the dry weight or one's own estimates no matter how lightly you try to load the trailer. Because you are familiar with CAT scales, it's a shame you can't load up your trailer and weigh it hitched on your truck before you buy it.
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Old 08-25-2019, 05:48 PM   #15
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5th wheel

I pulled my first 5th wheel with a 2003 6L gasser and all was fine. It said on the truck that is was a 1500HD built in Flint MI but is was on a 3/4 chassis. Go figure why GM did that. 8 lug pattern.
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Old 08-25-2019, 06:22 PM   #16
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We have a gasser and it pulls fine and stops fine. Would it pull better with 1 ton diesel-- yep, but we don't pull all the time. You can see upgrades in signature, and we live out west in the mountains.
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Old 08-25-2019, 07:34 PM   #17
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I think you will like the additional stability in towing a fifth wheel versus a bumper hitch. We have a 2008 RAM 3500 dually but the Cummins diesel, the megacab trcuk, the automatic transmission and all the weighted options cuts down on my cargo weight. So while I have a fairly light Rockwood fifth wheel (7,700# dry), it almost maxes out my one ton dually truck once the fifth wheel is loaded with clothes, food and propane. Pin weight is supposed to be about 1,350# but I am sure it's heavier. I always travel with water tanks nearly dry. No issues and the truck handles fine but the rear end does look a bit "loaded."

The pin weight and trailer weight is always more than the dry weight or one's own estimates no matter how lightly you try to load the trailer. Because you are familiar with CAT scales, it's a shame you can't load up your trailer and weigh it hitched on your truck before you buy it.
A one ton dually shouldn't be anywhere near max payload capacity with a trailer that light. Did I miss something?
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Old 08-25-2019, 07:54 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by SQROOT View Post
I pulled my first 5th wheel with a 2003 6L gasser and all was fine. It said on the truck that is was a 1500HD built in Flint MI but is was on a 3/4 chassis. Go figure why GM did that. 8 lug pattern.
I still have a 02 1500hd, best truck gm ever built; it's what new 1/2 tons aspire to be...GM built them to compete with ford and dodge, but didn't have a 1/2 ton chassis for crew cabs at the time, so 1500hd, crew cab
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Old 08-25-2019, 08:16 PM   #19
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Just be aware that a normally aspirated engine will lose power at a rate of 3% for every 1000 feet above sea-level so you will see around 15-35% loss depending on where you go. You will still be fine but just be aware that the performance will suffer. Even my diesel didn't perform as well at 7000-12000 altitudes.
Finally someone touching on a particular important element often overlooked when dealing with towing...elevation, and the very real issues it brings with it. Most Flatlanders don’t even take Elevation into consideration because they’ve never experienced it first hand.

Everyone speaks from their experience, often that experience is limited to their time zone. The problem with asking the general population about their experience is it’s their experience . The vast majority are often concerned with justification of their choices. It doesn’t matter if it’s tires, trucks, Campers, turbos etc...”do what I do so I feel better about my choice!”
What works for someone on the East Coast is gonna be a completely different experience in the Rockies!

You mentioned coming out West next year. If you plan to spend a lot of time out here in with a naturally aspirated engine buy the lightest Fifth wheel you can find. Mountain Passes can go from 5000’ to 12,000’ plus, now add heavy traffic that prevents you from keeping your rpm’s up. Then add multiple switchbacks that all but eliminates any momentum you may need, want or had. Now take into account how the very thin air is starving your engine, preventing it from creating the same power you’ve become used too. The air is thinner here and towing is especially tough on a TV that is naturally aspirated. Even with 8 and 10 speed transmissions and computers that monitor everything, plan for a completely different towing experience out here.

I just put a larger turbo on my diesel to help with high EGT’s which are a direct result of the elevation. Even after the installation, I’m still watching gauges, there’s more room for errors but elevation is brutal on a TV.

I would get true actual weights on a camper by driving across a scale. If the dealer won’t let you take it to a scale, then go to a different dealership. Then add the weight of everything to the actual UVW. Water weight is easily determined based on tank capacity. Then there’s food, supplies, add 10%- 15% to that, because we rarely estimate correctly.
A 600-1200# of unexpected weight can really change your towing experience.

After all this math, Do you have plenty of room under your GCWR?
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Old 08-25-2019, 09:49 PM   #20
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I didn’t find elevation to be a problem Tundra pulled 10k just fine. If I lost 30% of 385 hp still have 100hp more than the trucks that pulled the same roads in the 80’s
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