Towing IQ

Pkdennis0504 · 08-01-2011, 04:48 PM

In this case is stands for idiot question. I have a 2004 Avalache 1500. We purchased a 2012 Grey Wolf 25rb. The TT weight is well within spec of th TV. We gave taken a couple trips, the longest being a three hour drive. The TV is set so the rear is naturally higher that the front. When we purchased the TT, the dealer salesman, who was great to work with and even gave us his cell phone for help, said I could try towing without a weight dust. Hitch. When the trailer is on, my truck is level, the trailer is level, and towing has been easy with no (that I could tell) sway problems. Is this ok, or am I missing some large concept here?!? I appreciate any suggestions from all you FR technogeeks? I LOVE this forum and the trailer. I will be submitting more IQ's in the future!

kbrown1075 · 08-01-2011, 04:56 PM

The weight distribution hitch displaces the weight on all axels of the truck and TT. On my 1500, I have a 1/4" difference at the rear fender well when the TT is connected to the truck with the WDH (Equal-i-zer). I can tow the TT without the WDH hitch, but I am not maxumizing the braking and steering capabilities of the truck as the front end is lighter than normal. Just 'cause you can, may not be the safest. Does that help?

Pkdennis0504 · 08-01-2011, 05:04 PM

It does. Any idea on how much a WD hitch relives tongue weight and puts more weight back on the front of the truck? 10%? More? Thanks!

kbrown1075 · 08-01-2011, 05:08 PM

Depends on your TV and the tongue weight of your TT.

donn · 08-01-2011, 05:09 PM

It all depends on how much load you apply. Most equalizer type hitches have chains or some sort of attachment. By increasing/decreasing the number of chain links determines loading. personally I would never consider towing without one, plus some form of sway control.

grhodes50 · 08-01-2011, 05:12 PM

I don't know about Chevy, but unless changed in the last year or two, Ford's towing guides always recommended a WD hitch when towing 5,000 lbs or more. So it has nothing to do with which tv you have or sway issues. It's all about distributing the weight on the tv's axles when towing a certain amount of weight.

kbrown1075 · 08-01-2011, 05:13 PM

In my experience, I would not want to tow but a few blocks, and not ove 25 mph without a WDH and sway control. I went the cheap route and regret it. I went with a WDH and friction sway control. I recently purchased an equal-i-zer wdh/ 4 point sway control hitch and it is 100 times less stressful to tow. I am far more relaxed when we arrive at our destination. When I was in the Home Theater/ Home Automation business we had a saying: "Pay me now or pay me later". I didn't take my own advice. Cost me 2 hitches, but at this point, I find it well worth having it right!

**bikendan** · 08-01-2011, 05:58 PM

i tow a similar weight HTT that's not as long as yours, with an '07 Avy and there's NO WAY i'd tow without a WDH and sway control.
let me tell you that it saved my ***, many times in bad weather conditions. 60mph winds in Nebraska and snow/ice/winds in Wyoming, to name a few.

shineysideup · 08-01-2011, 06:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pkdennis0504

In this case is stands for idiot question. I have a 2004 Avalache 1500. We purchased a 2012 Grey Wolf 25rb. The TT weight is well within spec of th TV. We gave taken a couple trips, the longest being a three hour drive. The TV is set so the rear is naturally higher that the front. When we purchased the TT, the dealer salesman, who was great to work with and even gave us his cell phone for help, said I could try towing without a weight dust. Hitch. When the trailer is on, my truck is level, the trailer is level, and towing has been easy with no (that I could tell) sway problems. Is this ok, or am I missing some large concept here?!? I appreciate any suggestions from all you FR technogeeks? I LOVE this forum and the trailer. I will be submitting more IQ's in the future!

No sway problems (that you could tell)? Do you have mirrors that allow you to see down the whole side of your trailer while driving? This is a must for towing, you have to know what your trailer is doing behind you and it doesn't hurt to know who you are just about to cut off

Should be common sense but from what I've seen on the road this doesn't seem to apply to everyone!

There is a post by Mtnguy called "weight stats". He has weighed his combo with and without w.d. setup. See for yourself, there is a huge difference in axles weights, especially the rear axle when not using w.d.

happy camping,

Triguy · 08-01-2011, 06:46 PM

I was taught to use a weight distributing hitch any time the trailer weighed more than 50 percent of the truck's weight. That's just a rule of thumb, though.

But, I think there is a requirement from most, if not all, manufacturers that any trailer over 5,000lbs requires a WDH.

Also, there is no way this can be good for your truck's rear axle and your trucks frame. As others have pointed out, the idea is to spread out some of the load from the tongue to the truck's front axle and some to the trailer axles.

To prove this, you could take your setup to the local CAT scale. Weigh once with vehicle alone, once with trailer hitched up (but do not set the wdh bars) and once with the trailer and the wdh. Look at the change in weight to the truck's front and rear axles for each scenario. You'll see what I mean.

Pkdennis0504 · 08-01-2011, 07:23 PM

I really appreciate the input from everyone! I do have extended mirrors. I used to drive a truck (large set van) and ever since rely on my outside mirrors and I do monitor my TT. SECOND question! If I get one myself, is it something I can install? IS one a little easier to install than another. And I can read manuals and follow instructions

Triguy · 08-01-2011, 07:41 PM

I hope you do get one. You'll notice an improvement.

Many people on here and other boards have good things to say about the Equal-i-zer 4-point and about Reese Dual Cam. The Equal-i-zer can be bought online for cheaply at RV Wholdesalers. Set up of the Equal-i-zer can be done by yourself with a few special tools. The Reese requires drilling into the frame IIRC. There are videos on the web that will help show you.

Other wdh that you will run across are the E2, which is a scaled down version of the Equal-i-zer (and not as good as the original) and Blue Ox, which is reportedly as good or better than the equal-i-zer and Reese Dual Cam.

Propride and Hensley are the best, but should be for the $$$$$.

grhodes50 · 08-01-2011, 09:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pkdennis0504

I really appreciate the input from everyone! I do have extended mirrors. I used to drive a truck (large set van) and ever since rely on my outside mirrors and I do monitor my TT. SECOND question! If I get one myself, is it something I can install? IS one a little easier to install than another. And I can read manuals and follow instructions

I can only comment on the Equal-i-zer 4 point sway control hitch. You can install that yourself. Just follow the instructions carefully. Most re-do the hitch set up after they get home from their dealer anyway. I think the dealers find a set up that is "middle ground" and will work for most people.

I did mine after my dealer installed the hitch for the first time and following the manual I found several mistakes they made. I tweaked the set up again when I purchased a new tow vehicle. I haven't had any problems towing including the times I've towed in high winds and rain.

I believe RV Wholesalers have the hitch for under $500 (10,000/1,000 lbs) with free shipping. The dealers around here will charge at least $750 including the installation that you have to re-do.

Good luck and happy camping.

TimeFurnace · 08-01-2011, 09:24 PM

Towing setups are a common topic on this board and certainly were on the board for my previous trailer (TrailManor). The information given in the responses to questions is usually spot on. What I find amusing though is just sitting in my campsite watching what rolls through. Headlights are always pointed at the sky. On the highways it is the same story. It seems that the percentage of level riding rigs is at most 20%. Is this unique to my stomping grounds (Central/Southern California) or is the disease a pandemic? It is hard to reconcile the board discussions with what you see rolling around a campground. I guess it must be one of those selection bias things.

caper · 08-01-2011, 10:02 PM

Had a person leave the CG today pulling a 24' TT with a ball hitch and a 16' boat and trailer on a ball hitch. The TV was an old chevy full size window van.

kbrown1075 · 08-02-2011, 05:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pkdennis0504

I really appreciate the input from everyone! I do have extended mirrors. I used to drive a truck (large set van) and ever since rely on my outside mirrors and I do monitor my TT. SECOND question! If I get one myself, is it something I can install? IS one a little easier to install than another. And I can read manuals and follow instructions

I can only comment on the Equal-i-zer. I did the install myself. I did buy the thin wall socket to tighten the ball ($60). I found when I got to that point, I needed a 3/4 inch Tourque rachet drive. I checked around town (small town) and finally found someone with a setup that would work to give me ~400 ft lbs on the ball nut. I had the rest of the tools needed, but they are big sized tools and not everyone would have them. It would probably cost more to have to buy the tools than to have someone install it. But if you have a good friend that will let you borrow them, that would be the trick.

It took me about 2.5 hours to do the install from scratch, by myself. I would do it again, no problem.

georgiapeach · 08-02-2011, 07:15 AM

My set up uses a Reese Dual Cam WDH, which I completely recommend. It's pricey, but worth every penny. It takes a knowledgeable technician to adjust it correctly, so we had ours installed at a hitch dealer we trust. The Dual Cam includes built in sway control, and I wouldn't tow w/out it.

prof_fate · 08-02-2011, 09:05 AM

You have axle ratings - say, 3500 lb per truck axle. The empty truck may go 5500 lbs, with 3000 on the front and 2500 on the rear.
Now you add fuel, passengers, cargo and it may change to say, 3200 front and 2900 on the rear.
Now you hitch up the trailer and it adds 600lbs of weight to the back, behind the axle, which will shift some of the load to the rear axle plus the weight of the trailer tounge, and of course the hitch itself - you can be overloading your rear axle while still being under your total allowable weight.

A WDH hitch will move some of that weight forward to balance things out.

Whether you need that or not only you can really say - is your avalanche a 1500 or 2500? My neighbor has a lightweith 26' trailer on a 90's F350 diesel and says he finds it tows better without the WDH, but that's a 1 ton truck with some serious suspension and he's not loading much if anything in the bed of the truck.

I've got a reese WDH with the cam anti-sway and I can pass or be passed by anything on the hiway, be on bad roads, off camber roads and never have the tail wagging the dog, go up and down gravel road hills in campgrounds (it's not flat here) and never spin a wheel.

I've towed boat trailers in the past and a pop up and never used a WDH and had more issues than I do now - so I"m a fan of WDH and anti-sway.

I'd say if your comfortable with what youv'e got and you're not overloading your rear axle then go with what you know. I suspect your at about the biggest trailer you'd want with out a WDH.

Pkdennis0504 · 08-02-2011, 10:30 AM

You people are great!! I will continue to ask my IQ's army various times. And what can you say about a guy who's name comes from IMHO one of the greatest comedies ever made? Prof_fate - sign of a person with taste

prof_fate · 08-02-2011, 11:01 AM

A lot of the issues with towing is there are no experts - I can tell you what I've done, and others will tell you what they've done. My TT had a big sticker that says "small SUV towable" - sure, by whose standards? An explorer can tow 7000 lbs and the TT weighs empty 5500....but when you start to actually figure things out there is no way that would work.
And tow ratings are not much more than a guess or marketing - the type of trailer makes a big difference, the terrain, driver experience, TV condition, weather, etc. Can you tow 7500 lbs? In kansas in may on a sunny afternoon, sure. But climbing a hill in 100F heat in july? Can you accelerate onto the highway safely? Does rain, snow, night, cold or hot make a difference? Is that factored into the tow ratings at all? Speed? Curves?

I"m old enough to remember the anemic power cars put out 30 years ago (ever drive an early 80s diesel rabbit? A corvette with 150hp?) yet there were no lightweight trailers and big 4x4 suvs and 130" wb pickups with 800ft lb of tougue and ABS - and people still camped.

I also say you need to consider how much/often/far you tow - once to the GG in teh spring and once back in the fall, or every weekend for 200 miles in the rockies?

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