TOWING (omg)

Suzanne Camps · 06-04-2018, 06:37 PM

Fellow campers: I am absolutely positive I am not the first to write a question about towing capacity and won't be the last. Please hear my (sad) story. We bought a 2017 Forest River Surveyor 191T Hybrid camper trailer in early April. Currently own a 2009 Nissan Xterra SUV, V6.

Our trailer is considered light at 3,000 lbs.

The towing capacity on the Xterra is 5,000 lbs.

We thought this was a no-brainer.

IT IS NOT, IN FACT, A NO-BRAINER.

Two things are now clear to us. Our Xterra CAN tow the 191T. Our Xterra SHOULD NOT BE towing this trailer. It is far too big a strain on the engine (we can not top 65 mph) and the trailer mashes the hitch down far too much.

Friends, we are now faced with a dilemma: either sell the trailer or upgrade our vehicle. We do not want to do either, especially given the fact that we have just invested substantially in a brand new camper trailer.

We completely love the camper. But after having taken our maiden voyage (to Edgar Evins State Park in Silver Point, TN about a 3-hour drive for us) towing with the XTerra, we know the mirrors are woefully inadequate (we prefer not to die if at all possible) and believe the engine was over-taxed.

We are considering buying a TRUCK for our camper. Is this madness? Is there a remedy? Do I need a KING RANCH to make this work?

Additional details: we have a brake buddy in our Xterra which helps quite a lot with braking and use a sway-bar which helps it not to fishtail. We don't have a bunch of heavy crap in the trailer nor are we driving with full water tanks or anything.

But, STILL. It ain't workin' out.

RockyMtnMarty · 06-04-2018, 06:52 PM

Your dilemma is unfortunately quite common. Many SUVS are somewhat under powered and due to their short wheelbase and suspension setups, they cannot handle higher tongue weights. While the gross weight of your TT is supposedly in the zone, it sounds like the tongue weight (weight where the hitch ball meets the trailer tongue) of your TT is above or at the max for your tow vehicle which pushes the back end down to an unsafe and unstable position. Both gross weight and tongue weight are critical limits. Most of us have found that trucks vs SUVs, with tow capabilities significantly above the minimums are the best choice. There is a greater margin of safety and less strain on the tow vehicle which causes premature end of life. Best of luck...and don't give up.

Kimber45 · 06-04-2018, 06:58 PM

1. Check the specs of your vehicle. Just because the max towing for an exterra is 5,00 pounds yours may not have that? things like gear ratio etc effect that rating.

2. Kentucky? what part? are you dealing with a lot of hills vs flat land?

3. you mention sway control but not WDH. That could help with some of the "sag"

4. 3,000 pounds out of 5,000 pounds sounds like a fairly good margin of error unless you are not counting numerous people and gear and extras? You could creep twards the top end very quickly.

Suzanne Camps · 06-04-2018, 07:05 PM

Yes, well, checking the specs is a project for March! Ha. We checked the towing capacity and, since it wasn't really even close (if it had been, say, 4,000 towing capacity, even, we would have thought twice). We are not hauling a bunch of people and gear. As the Rocky Mountain Marty points out, our problem is weight on the hitch.

bakwoodj · 06-04-2018, 07:07 PM

With a weight distribution hitch set up correctly and mirror extensions, you should be alright. Regarding the speed, 65 is the max rating on most trailer tires so you don't want to exceed that anyway. I pulled a 3200# wolf pup 16bhs with a 2011 jeep Wrangler unlimited for over 10k miles in a two year period. It was severely limited in it's ability to climb steep hills but I could maintain 70mph. It had 3.73 gears. It has a towing capacity of 3500# I did a quick research of the Xterra and it appears to have a 3.69 gear ratio so that should be alright, also. Someone correct me on the gear ratio if you find different

Suzanne Camps · 06-04-2018, 07:16 PM

Have just watched a video on WDH. Good thing it isn't complicated to install! HAHAHA. Kidding. Wow. It does look like what I may need. Also, I should say that Edgar Evins Park is pretty steep and Tennessee, in general, very hilly, although we were still mid-state and not, technically, in the mountains.

Joe_GA · 06-04-2018, 07:19 PM

A 3000 pound trailer that is shorter than the height of the tow vehicle will not load your vehicle like your current camper. Wind load plays a big part in how your vehicle tows. At 65 MPH, your SUV is trying to drag a large surface area through the air. That's why you cannot get above 65 MPH. However, as already stated, you shouldn't be trying to pull any faster than than. Also, read your TV owners manual. You may have to tow in a lower gear.

All said, you can't hardly ever have too big a tow vehicle. Wish you the best.

Suzanne Camps · 06-04-2018, 07:19 PM

Thanks for this input. I guess we did expect to to have the ability to go faster than 65 MPH. We once towed it with a really big Ford Truck and we could go as fast as we wanted; it's like the thing wasn't back there.

Joe_GA · 06-04-2018, 07:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Suzanne Camps

Have just watched a video on WDH. Good thing it isn't complicated to install! HAHAHA. Kidding. Wow. It does look like what I may need. Also, I should say that Edgar Evins Park is pretty steep and Tennessee, in general, very hilly, although we were still mid-state and not, technically, in the mountains.

Speaking of installing a WDH. I've heard of more horror stories of camper dealers installing them wrong and it happened to me one time. I had to re-install one after a dealer got it all wrong. If you cannot do it yourself, get a competent mechanic that can read.

jking46 · 06-04-2018, 07:34 PM

Looks like your camper has a dry weight of 3400 lbs. This is before adding a battery or filling the propane tanks. It is , health and beauty, toys, etc.

You have a cargo capacity of 1400 lbs on the camper. Even loading moderately, you will put 700 lbs in it. That puts you over 4000 lbs.

Questions...
What is the cargo capacity of your exterra. Should be a load sticker on the door.

Did you get a weight distribution hitch, not just a sway bar.

Do you have a brake controller.

Get back with us with answers and we may be able to help.

EdJunior · 06-04-2018, 07:39 PM

Of course you need a King Ranch. Sheesh! If you're gonna tow, tow in style.

Seriously, people have said it already. It sounds like you are hooked on the trailer and camping (good), and still like the XTerra (well, to each his own I guess). But could part easier with the XTerra. You would not regret going to a truck. Plus, if you did it right, you would be set up for future upgrades to the trailer (whaaaa...yes it likely will happen). At the very least, you will have what you really need for the present camper. The right tool for the job. Once you get the fever....

Teetime · 06-04-2018, 08:03 PM

My four principles:

1-Get a good big fossil fuel diesel while they still make them.

2-Don't exceed 65% of your towing capacity.

3-Have a good WDH.

4-Know how to use your Brake Controller.

Relax when driving and go camping

mopwr4me2003 · 06-04-2018, 08:36 PM

You have many numbers to consider even if you upgrade the TV.

You need to consider the actual weight of your vehicle loaded like a full tank of gas and any passengers you may be taking.

Actual weight of the trailer. Guessing only gets you in trouble.

You also need the payload capacity of the TV and the combined weight rating of the tow vehicle.

After all that you still need to know what your receiver has for towing capacity as well. Is it 5000# with a 500# tongue weight. Also do you have a tow package. Most vehicles have a reduced towing capacity if they are not properly equipped for towing. Lots of numbers and math to do but it is needed to figure out what you can safely tow and what you may need to do. A good and correctly matched and setup WDH will also help greatly.

Good luck!
Tim

Oaklevel · 06-04-2018, 08:53 PM

First thing that I would do is take your set up to a cat scale and weigh it according to Forest Rivers web site a 191T weighs a whole lot more than 3000 lbs. According to the site it weighs 3396 lb empty with no options from the factory (Do you know what the yellow sticker says it weighs empty?? )...... And has a capacity of another 1440 lb. My guess is your trailer actually weighs close to 5000 lbs with your gear...... hopefully I'm wrong..........

One other thing pulling a camper more than 65-70 is not a good idea..

You need to do some more homework....... Good Luck !!!!

dbledan · 06-04-2018, 09:16 PM

Well I did the same but I had a truck...I thought I was buying a trailer with some buffer...not so much as I am at payload not fully loaded.

My advice is figure out if you are going to upgrade your camper later because the next step could require a larger vehicle than a 1/2 ton. If not then a 1/2 ton can pull what you have just fine. Pay attention to payloads and figure it out before you buy anything. Know that more bling in the truck means less payload (I get it, king ranch is great!). Open the door and look at the payload sticker to know before you buy. If they will let you hook it up and take it to a scale you should. Anything less than 1500lbs payload and max tow package you should walk away if you plan to tow your trailer.

I wish you the best and don't be afraid to ask more questions so you are not having to upgrade again.

Suzanne Camps · 06-04-2018, 09:18 PM

So, is everyone saying that, with the right big-assed truck (say a Titan with 9,000# towing capacity), I won't need a WDH?

Oaklevel · 06-04-2018, 09:24 PM

You will still need a WDH.

mopwr4me2003 · 06-04-2018, 09:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Suzanne Camps

So, is everyone saying that, with the right big-assed truck (say a Titan with 9,000# towing capacity), I won't need a WDH?

No you will be close or over the weight of the trucks towing so I would definitely recommend a WDH. Especially cause it sounds like you are just learning things. Unless you plan on getting a 3/4 or 1 Ton truck for that Trailer then you might get away from a WDH.

But a good quality WDH and get a good TV. Look at a few WDH like equalizer, blue ox, Anderson, reese or if you got $$$ propride or henesly. These are some of the names of the popular ones. Tons more out there for you to look at as well.

Tim

AlaskaErik · 06-04-2018, 10:39 PM

If you keep the trailer, you'll probably need to upgrade. A half ton pick is more than adequate for your trailer. Ram and GM are coming out with totally redesigned half tons for 2019. That means there should be some good incentives on 2018 models. $15,000 off of MSRP should not be unheard of.

**bikendan** · 06-04-2018, 10:56 PM

Suzanne, why did you not get a WDH in the first place?
I'm pretty sure the Xterra's owners manual would have told you that you needed one to tow a TT of that size.

Did your RV dealer not advise you to get one, when you bought the trailer? If no, SHAME on them.

I loved the Xterra but quickly saw it as a poor tow vehicle for my Roo 23SS hybrid. Short wheelbase, high center of gravity, low payload capacity and soft suspension.

I think a lot of your issues will be solved by using a good WDH with integrated sway control.

I remember when you started asking questions, in the Hybrid section of the Forum, about the 191T.
But you never asked questions about your tow vehicle nor a WDH.
We would've have definitely warned you about the Xterra's weak points and getting a WDH.

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