Towing Payloads and Capacities Interpretation

[CUTiger80]

I'm hoping that some of you guys can review/verify my weight data and let me know if my interpretations are correct and/or if there is additional data out there that will help me.
Following are all of the numbers from the CAT scales, etc. All of these weights are with the truck fully loaded with people, fuel, and stuff and the fiver fully loaded for a 3-week trip.
The total truck weight is 8,600 lbs.
The pin weight of the fiver is 2,940 lbs.
The total axle weight of the fiver is 11,640 lbs.
If you do the math, the total weight of the fiver is 14,580 lbs.
I have measured the height of the truck at the tailgate before and after hooking up and the truck (at the tailgate) drops approximately 3" when the fiver is hitched up and ready to go.
I downloaded the trailering guide from GM for 2019 and the fifth wheel data is confusing to me. I have included it below along with the placard from the door panel of the truck. For the 2500HD 4WD Crew Cab with Duramax, there's not a weight spec provided. It does say that the GCVWR is 25,300 lbs. By my calculations, I'm at 23,180 lbs.
The door placard says that the GVWR is 10,000 lbs. By my calculations, I'm at 11,540 with the fiver hooked up.
I interpret all of this to mean that I'm okay as far as pulling and stopping, but I'm 1,540 lbs over as far as the GVWR for the truck.
Am I interpreting this all correctly or is there something that I am missing?
I was considering adding air bags (which I know will not help the GVWR of the truck) to help with the height of the rear end when the fiver is hitched up. I'm thinking that this could possibly help with the rough ride (at least).
I do appreciate everyone's comments on this.

[corn18]

The biggest concern I have is exceeding an axle rating. Do you have the weights on the front and rear truck axles with the 5er hooked up? Your total truck weight exceeds the total axle weight ratings, so one of them is overweight. With a 1,949 lbs cargo capacity, I'm guessing you are way over on RAWR. That is not good.

[CUTiger80]

The weights for the front and rear axles with the fiver attached are:
Front = 4,880 lbs.
Rear = 6,660 lbs.
Where do you find the weight ratings for each axle? I have not seen them anywhere.

[chriscowles]

Originally Posted by CUTiger80

The weights for the front and rear axles with the fiver attached are:
Front = 4,880 lbs.
Rear = 6,660 lbs.
Where do you find the weight ratings for each axle? I have not seen them anywhere.

There should be a yellow sticker on the driver's door jamb of the truck.

[corn18]

Originally Posted by CUTiger80

The weights for the front and rear axles with the fiver attached are:
Front = 4,880 lbs.
Rear = 6,660 lbs.
Where do you find the weight ratings for each axle? I have not seen them anywhere.

They are on door placard 2. 5,200 front, 6,200 rear. So you are 440 lbs over the RAWR. That is not good.

[tomkatb]

On a black and white sticker in the door frame. Should be obvious.

The truck needs to be level to a little high in the back. Your lights will blind others. Braking is decreased. Tires could be overloaded in the rear. 3300 each!

I bet your springs are pretty flat. Timbrens would help.

[CUTiger80]

Thanks. I was so focused on the GVWR, I missed the other ratings.
So it appears that I am 1,540 lbs. over GVWR and 460 lbs. over on the rear axle.
This has my stomach all tied up in knots since we just purchased the truck about 1 year ago and the fiver about 3 months ago. I just HATE the thought of telling the wife that we either need a bigger truck or a smaller fiver. She loves them both, and we can't afford to do either right now.
The facts are the facts but I felt much better when I was "ignorant".
Are we going to die on our next trip?

[corn18]

Originally Posted by CUTiger80

Thanks. I was so focused on the GVWR, I missed the other ratings.
So it appears that I am 1,540 lbs. over GVWR and 460 lbs. over on the rear axle.
This has my stomach all tied up in knots since we just purchased the truck about 1 year ago and the fiver about 3 months ago. I just HATE the thought of telling the wife that we either need a bigger truck or a smaller fiver. She loves them both, and we can't afford to do either right now.
The facts are the facts but I felt much better when I was "ignorant".
Are we going to die on our next trip?

Nope, you won't die. There is margin. You can investigate moving some stuff around to reduce the pin weight or the weight in the truck. I think that would get you close to RAWR and good to go.

[CUTiger80]

Originally Posted by corn18

Nope, you won't die. There is margin. You can investigate moving some stuff around to reduce the pin weight or the weight in the truck. I think that would get you close to RAWR and good to go.

I feel better (I think).
I was thinking of adding some water to the fresh water tank (which is behind the rear axles) to take some weight off of the pin. That would certainly increase the overall weight, but help the pin weight.
The bedroom is up front, so there's not a lot that we can move.
Thank goodness ours did not come with the washer/dryer which is intended to be mounted in the front closet right over the pin!!
Since I know that I am going to be over weight (at least until we can afford another truck) would it help the ride and the "attitude" to add air bags to the rear?

[tomkatb]

Ford and Chevrolet make it difficult to see payloads on their trucks. Look at Ram. No comparison.

An Anderson Ultimate saves you #100.

A plastic tailgate saves #50 or more.

No gear in the bed. Empty fluid tanks. Load all you can in the rear of the rv. The farther behind the axleS the better.

Make the truck level.

No one will die.

Lithium batteries are much lighter.

Put nothing that weighs anything in the front fiver storage. Buckets. Chairs slinky stinky. Blue boy.

[corn18]

Originally Posted by CUTiger80

I feel better (I think).
I was thinking of adding some water to the fresh water tank (which is behind the rear axles) to take some weight off of the pin. That would certainly increase the overall weight, but help the pin weight.
The bedroom is up front, so there's not a lot that we can move.
Thank goodness ours did not come with the washer/dryer which is intended to be mounted in the front closet right over the pin!!
Since I know that I am going to be over weight (at least until we can afford another truck) would it help the ride and the "attitude" to add air bags to the rear?

Air bags won't help being overweight or change the weight ratings but they will help level the truck if you feel you need that. I use mine to adjust ride quality while towing. Usually run about 35 psi which doesn't get me back to level but does take out some of the bouncing. I could air the bags up more and return me to level, but I like having the rear springs engaged to work with the airbags. That's just me.

[CUTiger80]

Originally Posted by tomkatb

Ford and Chevrolet make it difficult to see payloads on their trucks. Look at Ram. No comparison.

An Anderson Ultimate saves you #100.

A plastic tailgate saves #50 or more.

No gear in the bed. Empty fluid tanks. Load all you can in the rear of the rv. The farther behind the axleS the better.

Make the truck level.

No one will die.

Lithium batteries are much lighter.

Put nothing that weighs anything in the front fiver storage. Buckets. Chairs slinky stinky. Blue boy.

Thanks for the suggestions.
I am running an Andersen already, so that's not an option. I was thinking of changing to a Reese Goosebox, but that may make things worse.
I was also considering adding some air bags to lift up the rear some.

[CUTiger80]

Originally Posted by corn18

Air bags won't help being overweight or change the weight ratings but they will help level the truck if you feel you need that. I use mine to adjust ride quality while towing. Usually run about 35 psi which doesn't get me back to level but does take out some of the bouncing.

I understand that the air bags won't change any of the ratings.
I was just hoping for an improved ride and to level the truck some.
What type of air bags do you have and did you install them yourself or have someone else do it?

[corn18]

Originally Posted by CUTiger80

I understand that the air bags won't change any of the ratings.
I was just hoping for an improved ride and to level the truck some.
What type of air bags do you have and did you install them yourself or have someone else do it?

I have the Air Lift LoadLifter 5000 Ultimate Air Spring Kit. They are easy to install.

I also installed the Air Lift WirelessONE 2nd Generation Control Systems 25980EZ compressor system with remote so I can adjust them from inside the truck. This is a bit more challenging because you have to find a place to mount the compressor and run wires to the battery for power. But not too hard.

I love rolling down the road and setting the bags at different pressures to see how the truck rides. At 100 psi with an empty truck and 80 psi in the tires, it's like riding on concrete springs.

I would highly recommend the air springs. You can just run the fill valve back to the license plate area and put 35-45 psi in and enjoy the ride. If you like to tinker, you could get the compressor and remote but it's not really necessary.

[chriscowles]

Originally Posted by CUTiger80

I feel better (I think).
I was thinking of adding some water to the fresh water tank (which is behind the rear axles) to take some weight off of the pin. That would certainly increase the overall weight, but help the pin weight.

When shifting stuff to the rear to save pin weight, consider that the recommended weight is 20-25% of the trailer total weight. It may not handle well outside that range.

[Tundra 2014]

Consider Timbrens. They are progressive bump stops. They have no effect when not loaded, but reduce the rear squatting of TV. No maintaince and a 30 minute install. I have had them on several trucks and have been pleased w/ them. Still does not increase payload, but much less expensive than air bags.

[chaps2018]

Originally Posted by Tundra 2014

Consider Timbrens. They are progressive bump stops. They have no effect when not loaded, but reduce the rear squatting of TV. No maintaince and a 30 minute install. I have had them on several trucks and have been pleased w/ them. Still does not increase payload, but much less expensive than air bags.

X2

[bikendan]

Originally Posted by Tundra 2014

Consider Timbrens. They are progressive bump stops. They have no effect when not loaded, but reduce the rear squatting of TV. No maintaince and a 30 minute install. I have had them on several trucks and have been pleased w/ them. Still does not increase payload, but much less expensive than air bags.

I chose Sumosprings over Timbrens because they seem to cushion the ride better, based on reviews. They are made with micro-cellular urethane and not hard rubber.
But Timbrens are well respected and loved. You can't go wrong with either.

[67L48]

Originally Posted by CUTiger80

[...] The door placard says that the GVWR is 10,000 lbs. By my calculations, I'm at 11,540 with the fiver hooked up. I interpret all of this to mean that I'm okay as far as pulling and stopping, but I'm 1,540 lbs over as far as the GVWR for the truck. Am I interpreting this all correctly or is there something that I am missing? [...]

I wouldn't interpret being over on a vehicle's GVWR as "I'm okay as far as pulling and stopping." Even if you made the case that a 3/4 ton is the same as a 1 ton ... you're still overweight.

If all you want is for random strangers to tell you that you're fine, then you've come to the right place! You'll get that in spades.

I wouldn't feel comfortable towing a vehicle that was 15% over its GVWR.
Plenty of people do it. Plenty of people also do _________ (fill in the blank with literally anything).

[IvoryHemi]

Originally Posted by 67L48

I wouldn't interpret being over on a vehicle's GVWR as "I'm okay as far as pulling and stopping." Even if you made the case that a 3/4 ton is the same as a 1 ton ... you're still overweight.

If all you want is for random strangers to tell you that you're fine, then you've come to the right place! You'll get that in spades.

I wouldn't feel comfortable towing a vehicle that was 15% over its GVWR.
Plenty of people do it. Plenty of people also do _________ (fill in the blank with literally anything).

Well said.