Towing question

ezroad · 03-27-2011, 04:47 PM

I'm new here as well. Any input would help. I have a 2009 Suburban, 1/2 ton, with a 5.3L V8, It has a factory brake controller and towing package. How do I find the towing capacity? I'm looking at a 299hbs from Sprinter and its specs say 7103lbs dry weight, and just wondering if its a good fit?

Thanks

donn · 03-27-2011, 05:01 PM

Way too much. Keep any trailers GVWR under 7000 pounds or you will regret the lack of power. I pulled an Arctic Fox 19B with basically the same drive train in a Tahoe, and guaranteed I would not want to pull any more.

edman87k5 · 03-27-2011, 06:20 PM

It will pull it but wont be happy about it, even on level ground.

ezroad · 03-28-2011, 07:15 AM

hmmm, Thanks. I guess the question is what is the max recommended weight then for a 1/2 tonne Suburban? I have read some other threads, and it does depend on where you live, conditions etc., which makes sense. I live in southern Ontario, and won't be doing any long hauls, as I have new twins and a 2 yr old......just local parks for the next few years.

**Herk7769** · 03-28-2011, 07:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ezroad

hmmm, Thanks. I guess the question is what is the max recommended weight then for a 1/2 tonne Suburban? I have read some other threads, and it does depend on where you live, conditions etc., which makes sense. I live in southern Ontario, and won't be doing any long hauls, as I have new twins and a 2 yr old......just local parks for the next few years.

If I had my family aboard I would err to the safe side rather than push the envelope of safety by trying to go for the max. Your twins will thank you.

In your case having more capacity left in your Tow Vehicle will allow you to sleep better at night. Believe me nothing ruins a camping trip like "white knuckle" driving to get there. My 2 cents.

prof_fate · 03-28-2011, 07:55 AM

My FIL/BIL are big GM fans, I'm a Ford guy. I did some research on sub's and expy's an d the sub (exc the 2500) is kinda week.

You need to know:
GVWR, actual empty truck weight
trailer weight empty and max
GCWR of your vehicle.

According to GM's own website a sub can tow 8300lbs BUT the GCWR of truck and trailer is 11,500 and the truck weights some 5800 lbs. If you subtract 5800 from 11500 you get what? That's all you can tow. It's way below what they claim. I'd assume a math error but if so it's been going on for years.

My expy can tow 8100 and GCWR is 12,500 (with the options on my truck - different options (wheel size, engine, gearing, 4WD, etc) changes that by 1500 lbs.
But the truck weighs (empty) 5500 so no, I can't tow 8100 as those two together add to 13,600. If I had a 2Wd with 16" rims I could do it,but not a 4x4 w/ 17".

So my max tow is really 12,500-5500 (truck) or 7,000. The trailer empty is 5400 - that leaves me only 1600 lbs for people, cargo, fuel...

Point being there is no way your sub can tow a 7,000lb trailer. Remember you'll have 250lbs of fuel, the weight of the people/pets, trailer batts/propane/water (fresh or gray/black), plus food, bedding, toys, dishes and more.

**bikendan** · 03-28-2011, 10:41 AM

i have an '07 Avalanche, basically the same vehicle as the Burb, with a bed instead of the rear seats.
our tow max is around 7200lbs. it's in your owner's manual. that's with a 3.73 rear end ratio. you might have a 4.10, which may allow the 8300lbs. number, but i doubt it. if you don't know what the rear end ratio is, it should be in the window sticker or take your VIN to a chevy dealer and they can tell you.

as the others have said, waayy too much trailer.
i tow a HTT that weighs around 5000lbs., loaded for camping.
since i live out west and deal with lots of mountains, i don't want anymore trailer weight than what i have.
rated tow capacity has NOTHING to do with where you live or conditions. it's your maximum tow capacity in perfect conditions and flat roads. that's why it's a MAX number.
don't make the newbie mistake of looking at fictional "dry" weights. no trailer actually weighs that.
take a look at its factory weight sticker, which is usually on the inside of a cabinet door. should give you its UVW.

you'll also need a WDH, i recommend an Equalizer or Reese Dual-Cam.

BigRed · 03-28-2011, 11:59 AM

Pro fate............you have completely lost me on the way you figure what a TV can Tow. Arent you forgetting the camper has 1 or 2 axles, which will pick up most of the wieght of the camper. So then the hitch or pin wieght would be what is added to the wieght rating of the axles on the truck. Then throw in numbers to off set engine power/torq ratings,braking power and rear end gears to come up with the tow ratings. You lost me.

**Herk7769** · 03-28-2011, 09:56 PM

Excellent Calculator for answering this thread.
More should use it as it will simplify the "whys and wherefores"
Travel Trailer Weight Calculator

kamp k · 03-28-2011, 10:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ezroad

I'm new here as well. Any input would help. I have a 2009 Suburban, 1/2 ton, with a 5.3L V8, It has a factory brake controller and towing package. How do I find the towing capacity? I'm looking at a 299hbs from Sprinter and its specs say 7103lbs dry weight, and just wondering if its a good fit?

Thanks

Tow rating guides:

Tow Vehicle Rate Guides

BigRed · 03-29-2011, 06:32 AM

Thanks...........everyone!

ezroad · 03-29-2011, 07:39 PM

Thank alot everyone - looking at the Palomino T 276, quite a bit lighter - 5400lbsDry. certainly worth the advice here
Thanks

flyrotor · 03-29-2011, 07:47 PM

ezroad, be careful with the suburban and towing loads, the transmission is a weak link and runs hot, easily runs in the range of 238 degrees on flat ground at 60 mph, and quickly getts hotter with any grade, yet without a transmission temp gage, you will never know until you are hotter than 260 degrees, the engine temp gage and power has plenty of reserve. My 2 cents are stay much smaller, get a scangageII so you can monitor the transmission temp, and plan on getting a larger (3/4 ton) truck before your transmission needs rebuilt.

ezroad · 03-29-2011, 07:51 PM

even smaller than 5400lbs? what is a scangageII? Again, thanks for the info!!!!

flyrotor · 03-29-2011, 08:02 PM

My trailer is listed with a dry weight of 4225, trailer length is 23', probably around 6000 loaded, all of which is mid-range in size for what the dealers are promoting as 1/2 ton towable. The suburban had the muscle needed to pull, the wheelbase to support the length with no sway, but the transmission was always running hot, despite installing an aftermarket transmission cooler. This I would have never known without the scangageII, check this link, I am sure it paid for itself in keeping me from having to replace a burnt up transmission.

ScanGaugeII - Scan Tool + Digital Gauges + Trip Computers

MtnGuy · 03-30-2011, 07:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ezroad

what is a scangageII?

ScanGaugeII - Trip Computers + Digital Gauges + Scan Tool

prof_fate · 03-30-2011, 08:34 AM

Number of trailer axles is a moot point for this discussion.
You have max limits on many things - towing weight, axle loading, tire loading, vehicle weight, GCWR (gross combined combination rating).

I"m looking at GCWR - which is the total weight of all that is moving down the road -the tv, tt, cargo, people, hitch, etc. It's what the engine/trans has to actually move and what the brakes (including the trailer brakes) has to stop. Frontal area, regarding wind resistance, is also a factor as speed increases but is rarely mentioned, as are a few other considerations.

So the truck ways 5400 lbs 'dry', or 'curb weight' as they often call it. Meaning no cargo. It also has a max wt rating of say, 7200lbs. That 7200 includes everything being supported by it's own axles - the truck, people, cargo and tounge weight of the trailer. The people in my family add up to about 700 lbs, the trailer tounge weight is going to be 700-800 lbs and a full tank of gas is 250lbs. The hitch deal weighs another 60 lbs. There will no doubt be video games, phones, clothing, food and such added to the load too. 1800lbs of payload? Sure. Add to the 5400 and i'm at 7200 max load...we best not stop for a big lunch.

A lot of that weight is on the rear axle, perhaps too much, overloading it. A WD hitch does just that - it distributes the weight to the front axle of the truck - but as far as I know you still have that tounge weight added to the tow vehicle's payload total.

So the truck weighs 7200lbs, loaded., w/ trailer attached.

The trailer is listed at 5400 lbs w/ options (my TT has a sticker on the storm door that lists it although I've not checked it for accuracy). From what those here say your 12v batteries, propane and of course water are not in that figure, so add 120 lbs plus water (we'll assume it's dry for now). Now add in your cargo - television, bedding, towels, pots and pans, leveling wood, kids bikes, dog stuff, clothing, chairs, firewood, tennis rackets, etc, etc. 1500 lbs? Sure, no problem I'd bet. So add 1620 to the 5400 and you're just over 7,000 lbs. ready to roll.

Add the truck to the trailer and you have 14,200 lbs GCWR. My owners manual warns that exceeding the GCWR will damage the transmission.

I felt we'd have a margin of error with the expedition and our trailer. The more I investigate the issue - and have the owners manual to read the details in - I'm not nearly as confident as I once was. Our options are limited - and not cheap - to rectify this issue.

The wife is dead set against a pickup even with a cap. When we first started looking for a TV it was to replace one of our daily drivers, it's now a third vehicle so in some ways we have more options. Unfortunately around here what will work is rare - and therefore expensive when you do find it. We should have a 2wd expy EL w/ 3:73 gears and HD towing package - in a good condition at a price we can afford. An excursion is perhaps a better option but even more rare and costly. We'll get it all set up, weigh it, tow at least once and then decide where we stand. All we have to do is move it to a spot from the storage area and back. We' like to bring it home at the end of the season (75 miles or so). If we can pull it 500 miles once a year for a family vaca somewhere then we'll be in hog heaven. The expy will do the spotting no problem. We can hire out the 75 mile move if needed or borrow/ beg a truck off a friend or neighbor. I just can't afford or justify a $25,000 diesel tow rig for a single 500 mile trip a year. At least not right now.

I also full expect to trash the trans in my truck - it's original with 232,000 miles on it...perhaps a HD rebuild and some other mods (smaller overall diameter tires/wheels) will bring things up to par. I"m not apposed to changing axle ratios but it's expensive or dirty work, assuming they make 3:73 front gears.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigRed

Pro fate............you have completely lost me on the way you figure what a TV can Tow. Arent you forgetting the camper has 1 or 2 axles, which will pick up most of the wieght of the camper. So then the hitch or pin wieght would be what is added to the wieght rating of the axles on the truck. Then throw in numbers to off set engine power/torq ratings,braking power and rear end gears to come up with the tow ratings. You lost me.

BigRed · 03-30-2011, 08:49 AM

prof fate..........got it, thanks

ezroad · 03-30-2011, 01:59 PM

sooooo, alot of rv salesman out there don't know what they are selling or doing......and point taken - do your homework!

prof_fate · 03-30-2011, 02:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ezroad

sooooo, alot of rv salesman out there don't know what they are selling or doing......and point taken - do your homework!

You have to become an expert almost - my expy is rated to tow 8100lbs. The trailer even loaded to the max is only 7500 lbs. Should be a no brainer, right?

So many factors add up to making up the reality that these general numbers are just that - very general.

Some googling turned up very detailed specs on my expy at https://fleet.ford.com/truckbbas - weight +/- for every option and trim, wheel/tire and such. The total truck weight an shift by 200lbs just choosing different tires/wheels. Running boards, heated seats, entertainment systems all add weight (70lbs, 4 lbs, 12lbs or so respectively). Limited slip rear adds 1 lb, taller gearing 5 lbs, fog lights 3 lbs, fancier stereo 4 lbs - just to the rear (yes, it splits some options by where the weight is located) I assume for the amp.

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