Towing question...

[2thdr]

My wife and I started the purchase process on a 2018 Wolf Pack 24pack 24+ yesterday at a show, before I really looked at my TV specs.

As far as I can tell, my 2017 Tundra Limited 4x4, double cab has GVWR 7,100 lbs.
The Wolf Pack has a GVWR 9,985 lbs.
That's a CTW of about 17,100 lbs.

Tundra book says with my options that CTW should not exceed 15,750 lbs. and the GVWR of the TT should not exceed 9,100 lbs.

Looks like my TV is not up to the task? What say you?

[B and B]

Hello,

You are correct. Better look for better equipped TV to be within limits. Sadly the 2017 is going to tale a hit on trade in value.

[kfergiez]

Isn't it funny that they advertise vehicles being able to tow a certain weight, but it violates the CTW ratings. It drives me batty.

[Ejs4029]

What do you have for payload on the Tundra ? That is going to be a big factor……The Hitch weight is 1,015 . Looks like the UVW on the Trailer is 6,373 lbs allowing up to 3,612 lb cargo carrying capability for the 9,985 GVWR so depending on what you were going to haul you would never be able to load the Toyhauler to it’s max capacity of 9,985 lbs looking at the #’s.

The Tundra at 7,100 GVWR and the unloaded Trailer at 6,373 would be 13,473 so below the 15,750 by 2,277 lbs but who knows what it will be ready to roll.

I’m sure someone with more knowledge will chime in since my understanding on the way the Toyhauler is loaded can vary the tongue weight.

[2thdr]

What does UVW include? Does it include the appliances and generator? The generator is factory added. Full water tank and motorcycles will add 1800 lbs. Two people and stuff another 500 lbs maybe? Getting another TV is not an option, I would just not buy the TT. Should I ask the dealer to put it on a scale?

[Ejs4029]

Originally Posted by 2thdr

What does UVW include? Does it include the appliances and generator? The generator is factory added. Full water tank and motorcycles will add 1800 lbs. Two people and stuff another 500 lbs maybe? Getting another TV is not an option, I would just not buy the TT. Should I ask the dealer to put it on a scale?

You can ask the dealer what the yellow sticker says for the factory weight...To my knowledge I think FR still weighs each unit to get that unique # ? for the sticker.

[HappyTrav]

Originally Posted by Ejs4029

What do you have for payload on the Tundra ? That is going to be a big factor……The Hitch weight is 1,015 . Looks like the UVW on the Trailer is 6,373 lbs allowing up to 3,612 lb cargo carrying capability for the 9,985 GVWR so depending on what you were going to haul you would never be able to load the Toyhauler to it’s max capacity of 9,985 lbs looking at the #’s.

The Tundra at 7,100 GVWR and the unloaded Trailer at 6,373 would be 13,473 so below the 15,750 by 2,277 lbs but who knows what it will be ready to roll.

I’m sure someone with more knowledge will chime in since my understanding on the way the Toyhauler is loaded can vary the tongue weight.

Payload is the big issue. Loading the truck with your family fuel, and camping gear takes a big chunk of that payload capacity.

My GM has a tow rating of 9,600lbs and my trailer weighs 7,200 lbs and I am just about out of payload.

You also need to make sure that you have LT tires. Most new 1/2 ton pickups come through with P tires as they are cheaper and have a better ride.

Bob

[IsleDog]

Originally Posted by Ejs4029

What do you have for payload on the Tundra ? That is going to be a big factor……The Hitch weight is 1,015 . Looks like the UVW on the Trailer is 6,373 lbs allowing up to 3,612 lb cargo carrying capability for the 9,985 GVWR so depending on what you were going to haul you would never be able to load the Toyhauler to it’s max capacity of 9,985 lbs looking at the #’s.

The Tundra at 7,100 GVWR and the unloaded Trailer at 6,373 would be 13,473 so below the 15,750 by 2,277 lbs but who knows what it will be ready to roll.

I’m sure someone with more knowledge will chime in since my understanding on the way the Toyhauler is loaded can vary the tongue weight.

I have a smaller toyhauler, you are correct that loading toys can change the tongue weight. my water tank is behind the axle, filling that takes 80 lbs off of my tongue weight and its only 330lbs of water.

If it were me, i would either find a different trailer that your truck can handle, or buy a better equipped truck. my experience says that even loaded light you will be pushing the limits.

[2thdr]

Did some more research. UVW includes standard build optional equipment. So my math:
UVW 6375
H2O 830
Onboard gas tank 200
Motorycles 950
Stuff 145
GTW = 8,500 lbs.

Again, my Toyota recommended GTW is 9,100 lbs. So maybe I am OK? Not that it matters for these numbers but I do have rear Air Bags and Rancho upgraded rear shocks. Just my wife and me and together we are about 325 lbs.

[CurtPutnam]

Originally Posted by 2thdr

My wife and I started the purchase process on a 2018 Wolf Pack 24pack 24+ yesterday at a show, before I really looked at my TV specs.

As far as I can tell, my 2017 Tundra Limited 4x4, double cab has GVWR 7,100 lbs.
The Wolf Pack has a GVWR 9,985 lbs.
That's a CTW of about 17,100 lbs.

Tundra book says with my options that CTW should not exceed 15,750 lbs. and the GVWR of the TT should not exceed 9,100 lbs.

Looks like my TV is not up to the task? What say you?

From a former Tundra owner - the Tundra is a great truck, especially with the 5.7 engine, but the fact is that is a small (payload) 1/2 ton that is not up to the task of pulling the trailer you indicated.

[Wilco]

It also depends on the type of motorcycles you have and where you plan to ride. If they are road bikes then do not take petrol and travel with their tanks nearly empty. Fill up after you get to your destination.

If you plan to stay in campgrounds, tow with minimal water in the fresh water tank and dump the waste water tanks prior to towing. If you do not plan to boondock then a generator is not necessary (and you could pull it out of the trailer to save that weight).

I would keep an eye on my transmission temperature when towing the first couple of times to determine if I need a larger transmission cooler.

[itat]

2thdr, you need to forget about comparing to your Tundra's published number for the weight of a trailer it can pull (and the combined weight) and focus on the amount of weight the Tundra can carry (aka payload). You'll exceed the truck's GVWR long before you hit the total combined weight.

I tend to look only at the truck's GVWR and make sure I'm not much over that number. I can live with a couple hundred pounds over but that's as far as I'm comfortable pushing it.

Take your Tundra to a scale with a full tank of fuel and everyone on board and find out what it weighs. Add to that weight some assumed weight for a weight distribution hitch (say 100#) and camping gear in the bed, and then compare that to the truck's GVWR to determine how much tongue weight you can handle. To get an assumed tongue weight of the toy hauler, I would take the weight from an actual unit's sticker and add 1000#, then take 12% of that number.

EDIT: The above is for a conventional TT. I'm not sure how the weight of toys in the back end will affect the tongue weight since I've never had a toy hauler. Perhaps others can comment on that aspect.

Personally, I wouldn't try pulling a toy hauler with a 1/2 ton. You'll likely be at or well over its GVWR and the Tundra won't have stout brakes like a 3/4 ton would. If you end up upgrading your truck, and you're considering a diesel engine, go straight to a 1 ton because the very heavy diesel engine robs a lot of payload from a 3/4 ton.

[2thdr]

Itat, thank you for your information. This is exactly the knowledge and experience I was looking for. As is often the case "It's not a problem..." is only true until it is a problem. Severe consequences are likely when this type of situation becomes a "problem". Think we're going to have to delay this purchase...
Thanks to all for your input.
I'll stop by a scale on my way home today, but I think I know what the truth is...

[Boomerweps]

They do make some smaller toy haulers if that aspect is a deal breaker. The smaller ones do not have onboard gasoline tanks and often wet bathrooms. IIRC, I saw one that was only 16'!
I concur with the other posters, you are pushing a little past your TV capacity with this particular toy hauler.

[IsleDog]

Originally Posted by Boomerweps

They do make some smaller toy haulers if that aspect is a deal breaker. The smaller ones do not have onboard gasoline tanks and often wet bathrooms. IIRC, I saw one that was only 16'!
I concur with the other posters, you are pushing a little past your TV capacity with this particular toy hauler.

I have the 17RP (21 feet tongue to bumper). if you are looking for small and functional this is it! with my 2009 f150 i just got my best economy at 14 mpg, worst in a head wind was 9.9 mpg. or look at a 19RR. a little bit longer, but dry bath and some more room.

[moose074]

I had 2014 Tundra pulled 36ft north trail loaded close to 10 k needed a w/d hitch but pulled great west Texas to Oregon no problems truck is really overbuilt

[2thdr]

Well, forum members here were correct. I was hopeful the 6950 lb. factory weight of the trailer would translate to approximately 1000-1100 lb. hitch weight. A trip to the scales showed the Tundra weighs 7350 when hitched up to the Wolf Pack TH. 250 lbs over GVWR for the truck. That's with no water, no stuff, only 20 gallons of gas in the onboard fuel tank. Putting a motorcycle in the back might lighten hitch weight some, but I'm sure it would be negated by added weight of gear. So in the off season I will be looking to trade my like new condition 2017 Tundra Limited 4x4 for an older, rougher, less nicely outfitted 3/4 ton American truck that can handle the duty. Another question as a side note. At slow speed are all trailer brakes like a brutal on/off switch? Turning down the gain doesn't help at all. The only way I can brake smoothly at low speed is to turn the gain to zero...

[5picker]

Originally Posted by 2thdr

Well, forum members here were correct. I was hopeful the 6950 lb. factory weight of the trailer would translate to approximately 1000-1100 lb. hitch weight. A trip to the scales showed the Tundra weighs 7350 when hitched up to the Wolf Pack TH. 250 lbs over GVWR for the truck. That's with no water, no stuff, only 20 gallons of gas in the onboard fuel tank. Putting a motorcycle in the back might lighten hitch weight some, but I'm sure it would be negated by added weight of gear. So in the off season I will be looking to trade my like new condition 2017 Tundra Limited 4x4 for an older, rougher, less nicely outfitted 3/4 ton American truck that can handle the duty. Another question as a side note. At slow speed are all trailer brakes like a brutal on/off switch? Turning down the gain doesn't help at all. The only way I can brake smoothly at low speed is to turn the gain to zero...

No, it shouldn't be brutal.
Brake controllers are (or should be) proportional. Going slow=less braking, going faster=more. You didn't mention whether you have a factory controller or aftermarket but something is amiss.

[DieselDrax]

Originally Posted by moose074

I had 2014 Tundra pulled 36ft north trail loaded close to 10 k needed a w/d hitch but pulled great west Texas to Oregon no problems truck is really overbuilt

Not breaking the truck or getting into an accident because you were likely extremely overweight with a trailer too long for a 1/2-ton truck is not how one determines "no problems, really overbuilt." It means you were very lucky.

[2thdr]

Originally Posted by 5picker

No, it shouldn't be brutal.
Brake controllers are (or should be) proportional. Going slow=less braking, going faster=more. You didn't mention whether you have a factory controller or aftermarket but something is amiss.

Just the Toyota controller built into the towing package. It has a gain setting of 0-5 in 0.5 increments, and also a finger pinch switch that I assume is to add more assist manually, but I haven't touched that part.