Towing Rockwood Geo Pro G16BH

[GPCamper]

I've got our first TT, a brand new Rockwood Geo Pro G16BH on order. Its ETA is end of September so I'm trying to get my TV all setup for this.

TV is 2017 Honda Pilot AWD with ATF Cooler, OEM Hitch, brake controller and WDS. Towing capacity is 5000/500 lb. GVWR of the Geo Pro is about 3800 lb. The hitch weight is the part that has me concerned. It seems high for a TT this small at 420 lb.

I'll easily exceed the 500 lb hitch weight with the the vehicles loaded for a trip. How concerned should I be about this? Seems I'll be well under the 5000 lb tow capacity but I could imagine exceeding the tongue weight by 100 lb or so.

I live in Colorado so lots of high elevation towing.

[bikendan]

All single axles will be tongue heavy for its size. Look at the dry tongue weights of the Geo Pro floorplans. Because they're all single axle, their tongue weights are higher proportionally, compared to tandem axles.
If 420lbs is the fictional "dry" tongue weight, I can guarantee that loaded, it'll be way more.
That 420 doesn't include weights of battery, options, dealer-installed items, water and cargo.
So all that stuff will increase tongue weight. It'll easily be over 500lbs loaded.

[GPCamper]

Originally Posted by bikendan

All single axles will be tongue heavy for its size. Look at the dry tongue weights of the Geo Pro floorplans. Because they're all single axle, their tongue weights are higher proportionally, compared to tandem axles.
If 420lbs is the fictional "dry" tongue weight, I can guarantee that loaded, it'll be way more.
That 420 doesn't include weights of battery, options, dealer-installed items, water and cargo.
So all that stuff will increase tongue weight. It'll easily be over 500lbs loaded.

They advertise these trailers as being friendly for "small SUV's and crossovers". The Pilot is a mid-size SUV with typical towing capacity for its class. I'm aware I'll potentially be over the max tongue weight loaded but with WDS how much of an issue will this be, if any? The only things I'll be putting directly on the tongue itself are power jack, batteries and propane. I'm guessing I'll be around 550-600 lbs?

[wevitt]

Congrats on the geo pro! We have the 19fbs Mine has a advertised hitch weight of #360 and i measured #750 as delivered. So just be ready for more than advertised.

[bikendan]

Originally Posted by GPCamper

They advertise these trailers as being friendly for "small SUV's and crossovers". The Pilot is a mid-size SUV with typical towing capacity for its class. I'm aware I'll potentially be over the max tongue weight loaded but with WDS how much of an issue will this be, if any? The only things I'll be putting directly on the tongue itself are power jack, batteries and propane. I'm guessing I'll be around 550-600 lbs?

You'd be guessing wrong.
WDHs do NOT lower the tongue weight, they merely move some of it around. Plus Honda has been anti-WDH for years.
Doesn't change the 500lb max amount. So YES, it's a major issue.
You have been taken in by RV marketing. These bigger single axles will almost always have higher tongue weights than expected. Look at wevitt's 19fb actual tongue weight.
If it was a popup or A-frame, it would be less of an issue.

[rsdata]

Published specs below:

Dry Weight 2,874 lbs.
Payload Capacity 1,046 lbs.
Hitch Weight 420 lbs.

You will certainly be limited in cargo/passenger payload in both the TV and the camper, but maybe make some trade-offs.

Fully loaded, (call it 3900#) at 12%, tongue weight calculation calls for a tongue wt of 470#.

To achieve that weight or less maybe load camper with essentials only and keep that weight over the axle as much as possible. Using your trailer to haul a lot of stuff adds to tongue weight, but you can control some of that by loading the trailer intelligently and understanding the trailer acts like a teeter-totter with the wheels being the pivot point. Loading on the back-side will subtract some tongue weight.

Possibly leave both propane cylinders empty until very close to your destination, and/or only use 1 of the 2 cylinders to eliminate weight.

Just remember that properly loaded trailers require a tongue weight of between 10% and 15%. Lighter tongue weights contribute to sway problems and possible accidents. See this DEMO... https://youtu.be/4jk9H5AB4lM

You may also require a weight distribution hitch with your setup. A WDH will also add maybe 60-70# to the tongue weight.

[GPCamper]

Originally Posted by wevitt

Congrats on the geo pro! We have the 19fbs Mine has a advertised hitch weight of #360 and i measured #750 as delivered. So just be ready for more than advertised.

Holy smokes that's high! Is it fairly typical for people to exceed the max tongue weight of their TV on these? Pretty much all mid-size SUV's from Jeep, Honda, Toyota, etc. have the same towing/tw capacity.

Isn't the purpose of these smaller trailers to be tow-able by smaller tow vehicles?

[bikendan]

Originally Posted by GPCamper

Holy smokes that's high! Is it fairly typical for people to exceed the max tongue weight of their TV on these? Pretty much all mid-size SUV's from Jeep, Honda, Toyota, etc. have the same towing/tw capacity.

Isn't the purpose of these smaller trailers to be tow-able by smaller tow vehicles?

RV marketing!
Just like so-called 1/2 ton towable 5th wheels.

[rsdata]

Looking up WDH and Honda Pilot I found this...

The Manual says the following:

A weight distributing hitch is not
recommended for use with your
vehicle, as an improperly adjusted
weight distributing hitch may reduce
handling, stability, and braking
performance.

I guess you will have to make sure the hitch IS setup properly...

[GPCamper]

Alright, you guys are scaring me into thinking I may need to trade in my TV for something else. I already purchased a WDS from etrailer based on a recommendation they made for 2016/17 pilot.

[wevitt]

Not trying to scare you at all. I just wanted to give you some " Real World" numbers. I have dual propane and dual batteries as well as all my stuff in the front compartment ready for camping.

[rsdata]

Alright, you guys are scaring me into thinking I may need to trade in my TV for something else. I already purchased a WDS from etrailer based on a recommendation they made for 2016/17 pilot.

Your trip home and your first trip loaded up will do the convincing one way or the other...

just know that you are on the hairy edge of being TOO MUCH trailer for your TV... but heck many on here do it anyway...

your WDH is not wasted on another larger TV

[GPCamper]

Ok, so I dug this up from the 2017 Pilot's owners manual:

■ Weight distribution hitches
Your vehicle is designed to tow without the need for a load distributing hitch. If you
wish to use one, please consult your trailer maker for proper installation and set-up.
Improper set-up could degrade the handling, stability, and braking performance of
your vehicle.

Maybe previous generation pilots WDH was not recommended? I don't get that from the above statement on the 2017.

I'll probably give towing the Geo Pro a shot with the Pilot considering I've already thrown down some cash to get it ready for the job. Sounds like I'll have to be careful how I load up the trailer. Thanks for the advice everyone.

[bikendan]

What you need to do is get a Sherline tongue scale or take it to a CAT scale and have the combo weighed.

[Boomerweps]

A little research (in an area that I did NOT realize to do prior to purchase, either) will show that these SUV friendly small single axle TTs normally use a 3500 axle. The way they can claim a higher GTWR is by adding the tongue weight capacity to the axle WR for a higher number, even though that weight is carried by the TV. So be mindful of your TV's load capacity, GVWR, because the tongue weight is included in that.
In my signature, you'll see I'm towing a TT close that size with a similar capacity TV. The WDH made the towing much more comfortable. My dealer did a great job setting that up. But I still reviewed its manual to confirm that. NO porpoising at all. Definitely underpowered, though.

[pgandw]

Boomerweps hit the nail on the head. Wind resistance is going to be your nemesis when towing with the Pilot.

It is true Honda has never liked WDH, but I have seen them set up right, and do a nice job of distributing the tongue weight, and preventing rear end sag. Honda's newer statements regarding WDH are more accepting than the old. A decent WDH set up properly will restore your Pilot's ride to near stock, especially if you don't overload either vehicle.

Any V6 3/4 truck or mid-size SUV is going to struggle towing a full height trailer in the winds in the Mid-West. Some people can accept going slower, others cannot. Just going from a 5ft tall A-frame pop-up to a 5ft 7in tall A-frame pop-up made a difference in towing with my V6 minivan (you do know that the Honda Oydessy and Pilot share drive trains and many sub-frame components?). I kick down from 5th to 4th sooner, and sometimes to 3rd (5 speed trans) at highway speeds on an upgrade. With a full height trailer, the problem is just that much worse at highway speeds.

In Colorado, we also have significant power losses associated with altitude (unless you have a turbo). But the thinner air does help with wind resistance (and gas mileage).

Read the thread on towing a TT with a V6 Chevy Colorado.

Wind resistance is not linear. You have over 4 times as much wind resistance at 70MPH as you do at 35MPH. Then add in any head winds (or side winds).

Fred W
2019 Flagstaff T21TBHW A-frame
2008 Hyundai Entourage minivan (3.5L V-6, 350HP, 320ft-lbs torque)
camping Colorado and adjacent states one weekend at a time

[GPCamper]

I'd really like to know why Honda specs list the Pilot's max hitch weight as 500 lb without WDH and 500 lb with WDH. I can't find another vehicle in the same class that does that. All of them are spec'd as 500 without and 750 with WDH except the Pilot.

[tc cruiser]

Originally Posted by GPCamper

I've got our first TT, a brand new Rockwood Geo Pro G16BH on order. Its ETA is end of September so I'm trying to get my TV all setup for this.

TV is 2017 Honda Pilot AWD with ATF Cooler, OEM Hitch, brake controller and WDS. Towing capacity is 5000/500 lb. GVWR of the Geo Pro is about 3800 lb. The hitch weight is the part that has me concerned. It seems high for a TT this small at 420 lb.

I'll easily exceed the 500 lb hitch weight with the the vehicles loaded for a trip. How concerned should I be about this? Seems I'll be well under the 5000 lb tow capacity but I could imagine exceeding the tongue weight by 100 lb or so.

I live in Colorado so lots of high elevation towing.

GP Camper
I have the e pro 19 fbs and tow it with a 2017 Honda Ridgeline with a 600# Curtis WDH with Sway installed by the dealer. My unit tows very well for me. I'm new to this and am happy the dealer set me up. Only a suggestion, have the dealer set up your hitch so it is done right. Our specs are similar at 5000# and AWD vehicles and similar trailer. The GEo Pro and E pro are the same but we have a different layout.
TC

[GPCamper]

Originally Posted by tc cruiser

GP Camper
I have the e pro 19 fbs and tow it with a 2017 Honda Ridgeline with a 600# Curtis WDH with Sway installed by the dealer. My unit tows very well for me. I'm new to this and am happy the dealer set me up. Only a suggestion, have the dealer set up your hitch so it is done right. Our specs are similar at 5000# and AWD vehicles and similar trailer. The GEo Pro and E pro are the same but we have a different layout.
TC

Good to hear from someone with a similar setup. I have the feeling when setup right it will tow fine. I might not be racing over the mountain passes in Colorado but I think it'll be alright.

I got the Reese straight line WDH with sway control. Specs list it supporting 400 - 800 lb tongue weight. I'll probably need some help getting it setup right so I'll look into that.

[Splitshaft]

Ah, just tow it and see how it feels. No need to get wrapped around the axle when close to USA vehicle specifications. In Europe it is a whole different ball game. Only in the United States does everyone need a Class 8 Truck Tractor to tow around a Tent Trailer.