Towing w/full size SUV

[7dfashe9]

I have a 2012 Ford Expedition XLT with 4x4. I’m currently pulling a pop up but thinking of upgrading to a TT. I’ve read the forums, the vehicle manual, watched videos, etc. and the math seems to indicate I can have a GCWR of 15000 total and can tow up a trailer up to 9000 lbs with a WDH, assuming I keep both vehicles within their GVWR. So my question, why have I never seen a full-size SUV towing a TT? I only see pick-ups doing the job.

[flyflotrtim]

The Expedition would be fine for a smaller trailer.

[bikendan]

Originally Posted by 7dfashe9

I have a 2012 Ford Expedition XLT with 4x4. I’m currently pulling a pop up but thinking of upgrading to a TT. I’ve read the forums, the vehicle manual, watched videos, etc. and the math seems to indicate I can have a GCWR of 15000 total and can tow up a trailer up to 9000 lbs with a WDH, assuming I keep both vehicles within their GVWR. So my question, why have I never seen a full-size SUV towing a TT? I only see pick-ups doing the job.

Probably because SUVs has soft suspensions, passenger tires and lower payload capacities, compared to a pickup.
Tell us:
Factory tow package or not.
Engine and rear end ratio.
Payload capacity from driver's door yellow Tires and Loading sticker.
Total weight of everyone in the car(including the driver).
Car trim level and its GVWR.

[7dfashe9]

Originally Posted by bikendan

Probably because SUVs has soft suspensions, passenger tires and lower payload capacities, compared to a pickup.
Tell us:
Factory tow package or not.
Engine and rear end ratio.
Payload capacity from driver's door yellow Tires and Loading sticker.
Total weight of everyone in the car(including the driver).
Car trim level and its GVWR.

Factory tow package installed
5.4L/330 3.31axl ratio
Curb weight 5781
1719lb payload capacity
Ford XLT
7500 GVWR
15000 GCWR
Weight of occupants 400lbs.

[7dfashe9]

Originally Posted by flyflotrtim

The Expedition would be fine for a smaller trailer.

What do you define as small? I’m not looking at the heaviest trailers, but the specs say it can tow 9000. Factoring in tongue weight, occupants, etc. the math seems to work, but can I really go that high? Looking at bunkhouses in the 34-37’ range.

[AlaskaErik]

Originally Posted by 7dfashe9

What do you define as small? I’m not looking at the heaviest trailers, but the specs say it can tow 9000. Factoring in tongue weight, occupants, etc. the math seems to work, but can I really go that high? Looking at bunkhouses in the 34-37’ range.

That 9000 lb max tow weight is predicated on a 10 percent tongue weight, when in reality tongue weight is more in the 12-14 percent range. Most manufacturers put their max hitch weight at 10 percent of max tow weight.

If you're looking at a bunk house, are there children involved? 400 lbs of payload seems awfully low. Don't forget to factor in everything you put in the vehicle in your payload amount. That includes the weight of the trailer tongue and the WDH.

A huge trailer like the one you're looking at is typically best handled by a 3/4 ton truck. Do you have the empty weight and GVWR of a trailer you're looking at? That would be a good start to determine what you need in a tyow vehicle.

[Rhumblefish]

It's all a balancing act - the entire set of numbers is combined into a trailering ecosystem. Ultimately, the desire is to look at max towing weight and figure down from there "for safety." But the reality is that SUVS (and even trucks) made primarily for people moving, aren't GREAT at being a tow vehicle (and that our vehicles have less capacity than we'd otherwise believe).

The takeaway is that you can't look at one number (eg, max towing weight) in absence of the other numbers and how the impact YOUR specific setup:

So, MAX TOW says you can drag 9000lbs. ... but that's haywagon style (no weight on your truck at all, just the amount the SUV can DRAG). A properly loaded bumper-hitch mounted travel trailer will put between 10 and 15% of it's weight on your vehicle (and weight of batteries and propane tanks, etc).

9000lbs * 15% = 1,350lbs of tongue weight
add 150lbs of WDH hitch and bars, antisway + receiver/ball, and you're at 1500 lbs on the back of your Expedition.

Payload is 1,791.

1791-1500 = 291lbs that you can put in your truck and be in spec.
Your occupants are 400lbs, so you're 109 lbs overloaded, and that's just this fictional example.

Put only 10% of the trailer weight on the bumper (and you've got 741 lbs of payload left, but your incidence of trailer sway increases). If you're flatlanding it (not a lot of hill work, not a lot of curvy roads), and not driving too fast (55-60 instead of 70-75), you'll reduce incidents of sway, you could be okay with this setup... but it's not ideal.

...but you haven't put /anything/ into or onto the trailer yet.

So, all these numbers work together. And SUV's (and the smaller fullsized pickups, eg f-150s) generally have low payloads (which get eaten up with accessories and packages as you move them away from 2wd, regular cab, machines and up into 4wd, crew cab, with premium packages and additional equipment).

When you figure the overall demographics of people pulling TTs (esp the bigger ones), a lot of them have pickups that are up to the task (f-250s and larger), as even the bigger SUVs start to fall behind.

That's not to say it can't be done: I tow a smaller hybrid trailer with an SUV - it can pull 7700, and has a payload of 1390. But I sure do get a lot of looks.

[flyflotrtim]

Originally Posted by 7dfashe9

What do you define as small? I’m not looking at the heaviest trailers, but the specs say it can tow 9000. Factoring in tongue weight, occupants, etc. the math seems to work, but can I really go that high? Looking at bunkhouses in the 34-37’ range.

You have some good info above and can work out the specific numbers yourself but with your family adding to the payload you are certainly not close to safely towing a 34' trailer. You are in tent trailer range or perhaps something in the 4500 to 5000 lb max size in a hard side.

For safety reasons, I would not want to tow anything a lot heavier than my trailer with my truck even though the engine would have no problem.

[chriscowles]

Originally Posted by 7dfashe9

What do you define as small? I’m not looking at the heaviest trailers, but the specs say it can tow 9000. Factoring in tongue weight, occupants, etc. the math seems to work, but can I really go that high? Looking at bunkhouses in the 34-37’ range.

34' - 37' is a LOT of surface area to catch the wind. You'll get pushed around a lot and will likely feel unsafe. Consider a hybrid trailer with an equivalent number of beds. You get the same kitchen, bathroom and bed space in a trailer that's 10' shorter and much lighter. It will be a better match for your tow vehicle.

[bikendan]

IMHO, a trailer the size you want, will probably exceed the Expy's max hitch weight. And that 9000lbs number is not rated for a full height travel trailer. It's a fantasy number.
I would look at a TT under 30ft.

My F150 3.5 Ecoboost with the Max Tow package, has a max hitch weight of around 1300lbs. And that's because it has a special beefed up hitch receiver. I'm guessing that yours is rated for less than 1100lbs.

[Geotrash]

I tow a 32’ Alpha Wolf 26DBH-L with a 2012 GMC Yukon XL Denali with the 6.2l engine. Fully loaded for camping, the camper tips the scales at right around 7000 pounds, and I’m within all numbers, including payload, but only just, per the CAT scale. I use a recurve R3 weight distributing hitch (has friction sway control), and it does great. Very stable in the winds, plenty of power. Took it cross country last year, pulled over Togwotee Pass outside of Jackson Hole, no issues.

[upflying]

Even if you could pull it, where are you going with it? Not many campgrounds have room for a rig 55' long.
Bow waves and crosswinds will have you sawing the steering wheel.
Your 5.4 3 valve will be screaming to go uphill. MPG will be single digits.
Since you are asking us, you are having doubts. Look for something smaller.

[Julianne_L]

We tow a Rockwood Mini-Lite 2509S with a Chevy Tahoe High Country and WDH. No issues at all. Not that we need anything bigger, but with the current wheel base, we don’t want to try pulling anything longer than 27 feet.

[mnoland30]

Take a look at a hybrid. I love mine. Easy to tow, 18' box, but 28' long when opened, and spacious. My son-in-law and nephew have bigger trailers, and they seem cramped inside compared to mine. We've comfortably camped with 4 adults and two kids.

I pulled boats with undersized cars and trucks for years. Years ago, when coming down a long hill, I couldn't stop the rig. That's when I went to a 3/4 ton. The extra payload is worth the cost for me. I carry 6 people and 50 gallons of extra water for showers, and don't need to worry about payload capacity.

The payload capacity on a truck is more because the back is lighter. No top, no windows, and no seats.

[dotsonjc]

I have a 2011 Expy same specs, and tow a 2018 Wildwood X-Lite 282QBXL (GVWR of 7705 lbs and a payload capacity of 1248 lbs.) Have a Equal-i-zer 12K Weight Distribution hitch, had to adjust from what the dealer set up was, to eliminate some porpoising. I did install a set of Sumo super spacers on the rear coil springs as well, just to reduce the amount of spring compression when the trailer is hooked up, doesn't impact ride when no trailer connected. Have been all over Michigan's lower peninsula, and never felt uncomfortable towing. Prior trailer was a Coachman 22DSX hybrid and frankly I didn't notice much difference when I switched to the bigger trailer.

[itat]

You need to look at 2 things: can I pull the trailer and can the tow vehicle support the load its going to put on the back end. The tow rating is the first number but its only really valid with just a driver in the vehicle - no other passengers or cargo. The payload number on the door sticker will be an approximation of the weight that the vehicle can safely support. However, as soon as you do any mods to the vehicle its no longer valid. The best thing to do is to take the Expedition to a certified scale with a full tank of fuel and all of your family on board and get an actual weight to work with.

In doing your theoretical calcs, assume the weight distribution hitch will weigh 100 pounds, and assume the trailer’s tongue weight will be 10% of its GVWR. Do a calculation of the expected weight of your Expedition (scaled truck weight plus WDH weight plus trailer tongue weight) to ensure it doesn’t exceed the Expy’s GVWR, and calculate the expected combined weight of both SUV and trailer to ensure you won’t exceed the Expy’s GCVWR.

My recommendation is to avoid going more than 200# over the Expy’s GVWR if its based on a 1/2 ton truck chassis and suspension.

[arthager]

We have a full size SUV, Nissan Armada V8 AWD with tow package and can pull 8500lbs. 121.1 wheelbase.We have a couples trailer, 30 ft Coachmen utralite 259fkds 6494 lbs unloaded. We never haul water. Cargo we estimate is 1000 lbs and never more than 2 passengers and a dog. I know we are at the top of the scales. We tow over fair grades and never any higher elevations. The weight distribution system helps and crosswinds have been minimal. I feel good about it.

[jbflag21ds]

99.99% of the time the payload sticker on the door of the TV is what is going to control what trailer you can pull .

[MO311fan]

2015 Expedition EL Limited (Sumo springs in rear), max tow.

Reese WDH (49913) with sway control, rated for 11,500 lbs, 1,150 tongue weight

2021 Grey Wolf 29TE, 36’ 8” long, (only) 10’ 8” tall, UVW 6,428, we never carry water and fully loaded weigh in at 7,800.

Pulled quite a bit last year and had no issues. Coming home from Nothern Michigan to mid Missouri with four people in the Expedition we got 17 mpg, granted 60 mph is as fast as I go. The trailer sits low and has plenty tongue weight on its own, so we load mostly from the trailer axles on back.

This thread did motivate me to email Cherokee to ask about how they arrive at the listed tongue weights. The 29TE shows tongue weight of 837, UVW of 6428 and GVWR of 7837. How did they get to 837?

[chriscowles]

It varies by manufacturer. From my observations of published specs, tongue weights seen in sales information are often a fixed percentage (the same percentage for all trailers) of GVWR.