Towing with the new all electric F150 Lightning

[TitanMike]

Originally Posted by larryscsi

I like renewable energy (Gas & Diesel) trucks for towing until something more economical and viable takes their place.

Not sure about the "renewable energy" part of your comment. Unless you are referring to biodiesel and "synthetic gasoline" ( if there is such a product". Fossil fuels have a finite amout left as we're out of Dinosaurs and prehistoric forests that created the cosl and oil we do have.

I have a PHEV -(Volt) that i use almost exclusively for my "running around" within a 25-30 mile radius. My gas bill went down about $400/mo and that was back in 2017 when i bought it. Today? A LOT MORE.

That leaves more money for my truck to tow my trailer on trips.

Maybe someday we'll see battery tech improve even more and see a truck capable of towing a reasonable sized trailer 300-400 miles ( even in mountains) and charge overnight from a convenient charging station.

FWIW i read that regulators just recently approved a small nuclear generator. Supposedly small enough to be placed around the country like substations today in our cities. Who knows?

[itat]

Originally Posted by lbrjet

The trade off is there is MUCH more pollution and damage to the earth to build that EV. It takes time for the good to out weigh the bad.

Do you have a link to the source for this opinion?

[elob_tx]

A local chemical company just inked a deal to install a four reactor gas cooled (Helium) pebble bed (graphite moderated) power plant for steam and electricity (320 MW) by 2027. Don't know if it will be in Texas or Louisiana. Low enriched uranium (10%) with a graphite coating a pebble 60 centimeters in diameter it will take 220,000 to fill each reactor. It can even be operated while it is being refueled. US DOE chose two companies GE/Hitichi and X-Power to develop their respective reactor designs for rollout before 2030. The local deal is with the latter. Still we will have to deal with fuel reprocessing and radioactive waste and decommissioning so the feds need to decide what they want to do and stop passing the buck at some point. Now we can have a mini reactor in everyones back yard. What they really need to work on is a different nuclear fuel cycle instead of the same old thing.

[elob_tx]

Only synthetic gasoline I am aware of is made by reforming natural gas. They are building a plant to manufacture it in the Midland/Odessa Texas area as we speak.

[larryscsi]

Originally Posted by TitanMike

Not sure about the "renewable energy" part of your comment. Unless you are referring to biodiesel and "synthetic gasoline" ( if there is such a product". Fossil fuels have a finite amout left as we're out of Dinosaurs and prehistoric forests that created the cosl and oil we do have.

I have a PHEV -(Volt) that i use almost exclusively for my "running around" within a 25-30 mile radius. My gas bill went down about $400/mo and that was back in 2017 when i bought it. Today? A LOT MORE.

That leaves more money for my truck to tow my trailer on trips.

Maybe someday we'll see battery tech improve even more and see a truck capable of towing a reasonable sized trailer 300-400 miles ( even in mountains) and charge overnight from a convenient charging station.

FWIW i read that regulators just recently approved a small nuclear generator. Supposedly small enough to be placed around the country like substations today in our cities. Who knows?

Renewable, meaning the earth still creates oil and natural gas, it never stops.

[jimmarako]

Originally Posted by TitanMike

Maybe someday we'll see battery tech improve even more and see a truck capable of towing a reasonable sized trailer 300-400 miles ( even in mountains) and charge overnight from a convenient charging station.

Generally speaking I'm not against electric vehicles. But the problem here is physics, not the battery.

Battery technology is moving at a snails pace since they were introduced. And that is probably going to continue.

Electronic improvements are responsible for most of the "battery break throughs" most people think of. The cell phone in your pocket has the processing power the computer on your desk 15-20 years ago. That desk top needed 100+ watts of power to run. You cellphone needs under 1W. Thats why it runs all day on a battery.

We all know towing something big and boxy kills fuel mileage. Not uncommon to lose over 50% MPG. Electric vehicles usually get hit harder. It would be real simple for Ford to make an F150 with 250 mile towing range today. All they need to do is stick a 1000 mile battery in the truck, or roughly 4x the size they are selling. The largest 80 amp L2 charger at you house can put about 60 miles per hour back in that battery. So plug in your F150 1000 miler for 12+ hours and your good to go.

So even if there is a big break through and battery range doubles so what. Yo will still need a large 1000 mile battery to tow with, and 12 hours to charge it. Thats if you house has 80A of free power left to get a L2 charger.

Hopefully in the future the crazy big 500kW DC chargers will be everywhere, but your probably still sitting around for over an hours with that crazy large battery in your truck.

Jim M.

[PodGeek]

Originally Posted by larryscsi

Renewable, meaning the earth still creates oil and natural gas, it never stops.

The rate at which hydrocarbons are generated in the subsurface is nowhere near fast enough the refill reservoirs.

...With an estimated average sedimentation of 50 meters every million years, it takes 60 million years for dead animals to become liquid hydrocarbons. It is hardly surprising, therefore, that oil is classified as a non-renewable energy source....

https://www.planete-energies.com/en/...its-are-formed

[MR.M]

Originally Posted by itat

Do you have a link to the source for this opinion?

you haven't done any research checking to make sure EV's are really helping the climate ? look up what it takes to mine and clean lithium ? Sulfuric acid is needed by the pool loads with no where to dispose of it . it's take 1000 gallons of diesel just to mine enough for one EV sized battery .. don't go down the worm hole of truth you will be shocked.

Oil we have hundreds of year left and plenty of time to get the EV thing right before we jump off the cliff . If things keep going by 2030 you won't be hauling the RV anywhere .

[tomkatb]

TED had a segment on that.

Nothing much on the nuclear front is going to happen anytime soon. Not in my backyard is a powerful issue.

We are out of rivers to dam up for hydroelectric. The ones on the Colorado river are about to shut down.

[lbrjet]

There are dozens of articles.

https://www.reuters.com/business/aut...rs-2021-06-29/

[itat]

Originally Posted by lbrjet

There are dozens of articles.

https://www.reuters.com/business/aut...rs-2021-06-29/

Thanks for the link. In that article it says the breakeven point for a US-driven EV is around 13,500 miles which is about one year for most drivers. That’s because of the use of coal to generate electricity. In Norway where most of their electricity is generated from hydro-electric plants it’s only 8,400 miles. Here in Ontario, Canada they don’t use any coal for generating electricity but they do use some natural gas generation plants (nuclear and hydro-electric are the primary sources) so we’re somewhere in the middle. Still, if your harming the environment less after a year it’s easily justifiable to go with an EV. Not many people buy a new vehicle every year.

I completely ignore any “studies” done by the fossil fuel producers. I would similarly ignore any “studies” by EV manufacturers. Both have a significant bias.

The other technology I’m hearing about being close to production is hydrogen-powered vehicles. Obviously the dispensing infrastructure is well behind electrical vehicle charging stations but I wonder how they will compare in the same comparison of lifetime carbon emissions. I just heard they are building a hydrogen production plant in Newfoundland and they’ll use sea water to extract the hydrogen and wind power to at least partially power the process. The byproduct of burning hydrogen is water. And refuelling should be as fast as gasoline and diesel.

[yukongold]

...

[GravelRider]

Originally Posted by lbrjet

The trade off is there is MUCH more pollution and damage to the earth to build that EV. It takes time for the good to out weigh the bad.

Originally Posted by lbrjet

There are dozens of articles.

https://www.reuters.com/business/aut...rs-2021-06-29/

That's actually much better than I would have thought. An average of 13,500 miles for break-even is nothing.

Of course, that article is just looking at carbon production. It's not taking into account the non-carbon pollution and environmental damage from mining the battery components. But, that shouldn't be as much of a worry for us here, as we seem to be constantly extolling the virtues of lithium batteries on our campers.

[SmittyCorp]

They also overlook the environmental costs of "mining" for oil. It's not without its own pitfalls.

[MR.M]

Originally Posted by SmittyCorp

They also overlook the environmental costs of "mining" for oil. It's not without its own pitfalls.

compared to mining lithium or cobalt oil drilling is clean .

[GravelRider]

Originally Posted by MR.M

compared to mining lithium or cobalt oil drilling is clean .

Do you have a good unbiased reference for this? And I'm not trying to be smart about it. I've read both that it is MUCH more damaging to the environment to mine for lithium, and I've also read that they're fairly similar. However, the references I've seen directly comparing the two seem to always come from sources too biased to trust either way.

[SmittyCorp]

Originally Posted by MR.M

compared to mining lithium or cobalt oil drilling is clean .

The Gulf of Mexico may disagree.

[MevetS]

Article worth reading, IMO :
https://www.americanthinker.com/arti..._hysteria.html

Then this morning there was a news report about the "Inflation Reduction Act"'s incentives for buying electric vehicles. Apparently, the max kick back being about $7500. The followup was that both GM & Ford had already announced price increases for those vehicles of about that same amount. Additional incentives. E-vehicles are not being marketed to those in the lower income brackets. In general, it's turns into another government sanctioned price increase that taxpayers will be paying for. This is not Altruism by any means, no matter how it's presented.
https://www.foxbusiness.com/politics...-spending-bill

[yukongold]

Now there are a couple of impartial, non-biased "news" sites.

[Retired JSO]

Originally Posted by TitanMike

Not sure about the "renewable energy" part of your comment. Unless you are referring to biodiesel and "synthetic gasoline" ( if there is such a product". Fossil fuels have a finite amout left as we're out of Dinosaurs and prehistoric forests that created the cosl and oil we do have.

I have a PHEV -(Volt) that i use almost exclusively for my "running around" within a 25-30 mile radius. My gas bill went down about $400/mo and that was back in 2017 when i bought it. Today? A LOT MORE.

That leaves more money for my truck to tow my trailer on trips.

Maybe someday we'll see battery tech improve even more and see a truck capable of towing a reasonable sized trailer 300-400 miles ( even in mountains) and charge overnight from a convenient charging station.

FWIW i read that regulators just recently approved a small nuclear generator. Supposedly small enough to be placed around the country like substations today in our cities. Who knows?

Even though the dinosaurs and forest of millions of years are gone, that process did not stop like cutting off a switch. Those bones and fat are still squeezing oil out everyday although there will be a time when the faucet will run dry but we will be long gone.