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Old 01-02-2013, 09:15 AM   #1
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Trailer weight question again took some advice need more input

Ok took some advice from my last thread and went and had my pickup weighed.Heres the info again, I have a ram 2012 1500 crew cab,4x4,factory brake controller,tow hitch rated at 12000 lbs,tounge wt rated 1200lbs.3:55 rear gears.3900 lb axle weight front and rear.
Gvw reg is 6800
Gtw is 8500
Gcvw is 14500
Weighed my truck it's 5980 lbs full tank of gas me in it,add wife 2 kids under 10 very little else going in it,so say another 300 lbs.
Rear axle weight is 2560
Front axle weight is 3420

Trailer ordered is wildwood 30kqbss
Dry weight about 7100 lists 6889 added couple extras
Add propane and battery
Hitch weight lists 899 lbs. seems high to me

Doing the numbers on my truck after weight it says I can only tow a 3900 pound trailer that is ridiculous,this is where I need help

I will be adding air bags and an equalizing hitch to my truck,I know the tongue weight is high but the trailer weight is under 8500 loaded,I can keep it around 8000 maby less,put nothing in my pickup.So I will be under gcvw of 14500 and my Alex weights should be fine.Seems my gvw will be at or over 6800 can this be balanced out with a wdh.

Crazy thing is it seems like I can only technically pull a pop up with a 1/2 ton truck.Just got it so not getting a 3/4 ton to camp 3-5 times a year most trips 4-10 hrs away, I have seen these trucks pulling 5vrs and I'm calculating only a pop up.?asking for opinions is this trailer really out of the ball park, thanks
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Old 01-02-2013, 09:36 AM   #2
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I was in the same quandry a few months ago. I had a 2012 1500 and was looking at a TT about the same size and weight. I took a loss and traded in my truck for a 1 ton dually. I was warned if I did that that we would want to upgrade our trailer choice ... and of course we did LOL So beware!

If you read through this thread you will find a lot of info on calculating the numbers and explaining the effects of the WDH: http://www.forestriverforums.com/for...ase-26576.html

In my younger and dumber days I had a trailer that was way too much for my TV. I spent hours on the road with white knuckles and got to the point where I hated to take it out. I ended up selling the trailer at a loss and was out of the RV world for 20 years because of that bad experience.

Even if you had the taller gears (3.92) and add the equipment you are thinking about this is just too much trailer for that truck IMO.
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Old 01-02-2013, 09:44 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Amcmachine70 View Post
Ok took some advice from my last thread and went and had my pickup weighed.Heres the info again, I have a ram 2012 1500 crew cab,4x4,factory brake controller,tow hitch rated at 12000 lbs,tounge wt rated 1200lbs.3:55 rear gears.3900 lb axle weight front and rear.
Gvw reg is 6800
Gtw is 8500
Gcvw is 14500
Weighed my truck it's 5980 lbs full tank of gas me in it,add wife 2 kids under 10 very little else going in it,so say another 300 lbs.
Rear axle weight is 2560
Front axle weight is 3420

Trailer ordered is wildwood 30kqbss
Dry weight about 7100 lists 6889 added couple extras
Add propane and battery
Hitch weight lists 899 lbs. seems high to me

Doing the numbers on my truck after weight it says I can only tow a 3900 pound trailer that is ridiculous,this is where I need help
If you load up your truck to the maximum GVWR of 6800, you are rated to tow a 7700 lb. trailer. (14,500 lb. GCWR minus 6800 GVWR lbs.)

Let's round the 5980 figure to 6000 lbs. to keep things simple.

Add your family, and you now have 6300 lbs on your truck axles. With the GVWR of 6800 lbs., minus the 6300 lbs., you now have only a 500 lb. payload. You can add a 500 lb. trailer tongue (and nothing else), and you will be at your 6800 lb. GVWR.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Amcmachine70 View Post
I will be adding air bags and an equalizing hitch to my truck,I know the tongue weight is high but the trailer weight is under 8500 loaded,I can keep it around 8000 maby less,put nothing in my pickup.So I will be under gcvw of 14500 and my Alex weights should be fine.Seems my gvw will be at or over 6800 can this be balanced out with a wdh.
Don't depend on a WDH to take much of the tongue weight off of your truck. The WDH will distribute the tongue weight to the front axle, and take weight off of the rear axle.....if it didn't then you would probably be way over the rear axle weight rating.

The WDH will take some weight off of the truck.....maybe 150 lbs. or so putting that back on the trailer axles. But again, is the strain of all of that weight still stressing your truck frame in a different way ?? We have had several discussions here concerning that, and the jury is still out.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Amcmachine70 View Post
Crazy thing is it seems like I can only technically pull a pop up with a 1/2 ton truck.Just got it so not getting a 3/4 ton to camp 3-5 times a year most trips 4-10 hrs away, I have seen these trucks pulling 5vrs and I'm calculating only a pop up.?asking for opinions is this trailer really out of the ball park, thanks
That is what is so misleading about the 1/2 ton truck figures. I think in your other thread you indicated that you have something like a payload of 1400 lbs. But that is probably figured as the truck is coming off the line, with nothing else added. Then you start adding a few options and the truck weight starts inching on up. Then adding passengers really makes a difference.

Many (or I dare say most) of the 1/2 ton trucks pulling 5th wheel trailers are over their GVWRs.....many of those pin weights start in the 1200-1500 lb. range....and go up as the trailer is loaded. Many of the 1/2 ton trucks that you see pulling large trailers are also probably over their GVWR. I know I am within about 100-200 lbs. of the GVWR of my 1/2 ton, and I only have a 700 lb. tongue weight on my trailer with a truck GVWR of 7200 lbs.
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Old 01-02-2013, 10:35 AM   #4
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I know I made some predictions in your other thread about what you have for payload capacity...now that you've weighed your truck the grim truth is even worse. I see that the newer production Rams are getting heavier. My '05 QC SB 5.7 RWD was 5850 lbs with full fuel, 2 people, 85 lb dog and sliding 5W hitch. You must have lots of optional equipment on your truck.

So the bad news is that you'll not be able to tow much camper without exceeding the GVWR of the truck. You show a rear axle weight of 2560 lbs on a RAWR of 3900, but the missing passengers and any gear will cut into that.

You mention about the 899 lb tongue as being too heavy, it isn't. If the camper loaded is going to be 8000 lbs, you'll need about 13% tongue weight which is 1040 lbs. You don't have an option of reducing this much. Too little tongue weight would potentially cause increased trailer sway and make for very poor towing experience.

With this camper, you'll be well over the truck's GVWR and also crowding it's RAWR. There's probably others out there doing this unknowingly as they'd never hit the weight scales. Others will tell you what they're towing with their Ram, but unless they provide actual weights, I'd take it with a grain of salt.

As i said before, you'll be at, or over every tow rating of the truck...not a good start to RVing.

I towed the fiver in our sig with the Ram I've mentioned for 2 years. The 1240 lb pin weight put the truck just under the RAWR. I only felt uncormfortable with the set-up once with high cross winds. The caution is that a fiver tows much nicer that a TT.

The camper's already on order...you can try towing it with a good W/D hitch with integrated sway and be very cautious as you know you're at the edge.

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Old 01-02-2013, 10:39 AM   #5
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My two cents.........

Air bags do not raise your gvw in anyway.
And should not be used to do so.
The springs are not the limiting factor as much as other things such as.
Axle strength
Brake capacity "BIG ONE"
Transmission capacity
Tire capacity


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Old 01-02-2013, 01:09 PM   #6
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I suggest that you bite the bullet, take the $ hit and get at least a 3/4 ton truck.
OR...
Bite the bullet, etc. and cancel the trailer order and get a lighter trailer.
If/when we get a bigger/heavier trailer, a 3/4 ton truck will be hitched to it.
We looked at many TT's and decided to get what we needed, not what we wanted.
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Old 01-02-2013, 01:17 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by f1100turbo View Post
My two cents.........

Air bags do not raise your gvw in anyway.
And should not be used to do so.
The springs are not the limiting factor as much as other things such as.
Axle strength
Brake capacity "BIG ONE"
Transmission capacity
Tire capacity

Turbs
X2



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Old 01-02-2013, 01:25 PM   #8
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Weigh the options out. Either trade the truck for another one with higher payload ratings. Personaly I would get the F150 Ecoboost in the 7700lb GVW configuration. Or cancel the TT order and get a lighter one. But like most have said your truck will really limit you for TT choices. My guess is it's a lot cheaper to cancel the order.
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Old 01-02-2013, 07:36 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by Amcmachine70 View Post
Ok took some advice from my last thread and went and had my pickup weighed.Heres the info again, I have a ram 2012 1500 crew cab,4x4,factory brake controller,tow hitch rated at 12000 lbs,tounge wt rated 1200lbs.3:55 rear gears.3900 lb axle weight front and rear.
Gvw reg is 6800
Gtw is 8500
Gcvw is 14500
Weighed my truck it's 5980 lbs full tank of gas me in it,add wife 2 kids under 10 very little else going in it,so say another 300 lbs.
Rear axle weight is 2560
Front axle weight is 3420

Trailer ordered is wildwood 30kqbss
Dry weight about 7100 lists 6889 added couple extras
Add propane and battery
Hitch weight lists 899 lbs. seems high to me

Doing the numbers on my truck after weight it says I can only tow a 3900 pound trailer that is ridiculous,this is where I need help

I will be adding air bags and an equalizing hitch to my truck,I know the tongue weight is high but the trailer weight is under 8500 loaded,I can keep it around 8000 maby less,put nothing in my pickup.So I will be under gcvw of 14500 and my Alex weights should be fine.Seems my gvw will be at or over 6800 can this be balanced out with a wdh.

Crazy thing is it seems like I can only technically pull a pop up with a 1/2 ton truck.Just got it so not getting a 3/4 ton to camp 3-5 times a year most trips 4-10 hrs away, I have seen these trucks pulling 5vrs and I'm calculating only a pop up.?asking for opinions is this trailer really out of the ball park, thanks
Ok so you are looking at an adjusted towing capacity of 8520 lbs. An available payload of 820 lbs. This is less than the dry tongue weight of the tt you ordered. You can haul more than a pop up but not the tt you want. Crunching the numbers, the max loaded tt weight you can handle is approx 5500 lbs. Anything over this and you will need a new tv. I know you don't want to hear this. It sucks. I know, I've been there. We too bought a tt based upon what we thought our tv could handle. We had an armada rated to tow 9100 lbs or so we thought. When it all boiled down, we actually had less than 800 lbs of available payload. We tried every band aid to make it work. I was pushed all over the road not only by semis but by cars and suvs passing me. I had a lot of tail wagging the dog with a properly adjusted reese dual cam hitch. The final straw came when I got pushed down a 7% grade. It took everything I had learned in 20 yrs of towing horse trailers to get us home in one piece. I swore never again. We traded the armada in on a f250 diesel. We took that same 7% mountain grade in oct with the same tt and new tv. I touched the brakes 1 time because now my truck had enough engine and weight to keep the tt slow. The right tv makes a huge difference because it is not can you tow it so much as can you control it and do you have enough truck to stop it. I am going through this dilemma again now as we look at 5ers and realize we may not have enough truck to handle it. Ultimately you have to ma/ke the decision if you want to risk your family's safety and the safety of those around you because you want so badly to make this work. Good luck and stay safe.
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Old 01-02-2013, 08:13 PM   #10
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Lot of good advise here on this thread. I can't believe ram 1500 payload is so low. Guess that's why I never look at anything under 3/4 ton.

- towing a tt and especialy a 5er, they catch a TON of wind, even if you are use to towing heavier weights, these trailers are like having a parachute behind you sometimes and any extra power you thought you had, you wish you now had more of.

Good luck with your decision!
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Old 01-02-2013, 08:18 PM   #11
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Hey all, thanks for the advice, I will not go with the combo I have.Talking to the dealer now about a 2500 ram, and also looking at a xlite trailer,have to see what's the best way to go.
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Old 01-02-2013, 08:29 PM   #12
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Hey all, thanks for the advice, I will not go with the combo I have.Talking to the dealer now about a 2500 ram, and also looking at a xlite trailer,have to see what's the best way to go.
Smart move either way. I went from an F150 with a 7700 GVW, 1857 payload towing 31' @7200lbs to towing the same TT with a 12 Ram 2500 CTD. Night and day difference. TT would push around the truck a bit. always felt on edge. With the Ram I have so far just used a standard Eaz-lift Wd with no sway control and done great. Will be looking at getting soe sway control for this year though just to be safer. But with the LB CC and a 169" WB the truck really holds the TT well. Good luck in what ever you decide.
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Old 01-02-2013, 09:20 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by Amcmachine70 View Post
Hey all, thanks for the advice, I will not go with the combo I have.Talking to the dealer now about a 2500 ram, and also looking at a xlite trailer,have to see what's the best way to go.
I am glad you have some options available to you. You will enjoy your RV experience much more if you don't have the overload worries.

Word of warning ....
If you upgrade the truck and want to save money ... Don't be like us and start looking at bigger 5'ers. LOL

I found a fantastic deal on my truck and within a day of having it at home we scrapped the idea of a TT and started looking at 5'ers. Needless to say we had to double our budget but in the end are very happy with our choice.

Best of luck to you in your search! Let us know how it turns out.

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Old 01-02-2013, 09:32 PM   #14
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Smile

Go with a one ton. Gives you plenty of safety margin. And as others have mentioned, you can start thinking of that upgrade to a 5er. We went 3/4 ton gasser for our first TT. Then a year later upgraded to a 1 ton diesel. Low and behold, 3 months later we had our 5er. Good luck and safe travels!!!
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Old 01-03-2013, 10:51 AM   #15
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I just went through a similar exercise only it was with a Ford F-150 Eco Boost. All the numbers said I should be able to "marginally" accomodate my new Columbus 295RL so I bought the truck. However, when I hooked it all up and pulled it it was quite evident I needed more truck. After I had to trade in the NEW F-150 on a NEW F-250 I ended up loosing about 8 thousand dollars for my mistake.

After doing the calculations on your situation, I think you are at the marginal point as well. My advise is don't try to push it. The lives of you and your family are worth way more than the cost of a different truck. mjm
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