TV bed length for large 5th Wheel

[llevesque]

I'm having a GVWR, Curb Weight, Payload, GAWR, GVW, King Pin Weight, Towing Weight, GCWR headache and am confident that there are a whole lot of illegals on the road today pulling big rigs. In any event, in MA I need a CDL/Class A only if the GCWR exceeds 26,000 lbs. This is the FEDs regs . . . applies to every State although States can be even more restrictive. I'm ok because my GCWR is 25,300. Trailer does not play into computing the GCWR and I remain ok as long as the trailer is within the TW's other maximums . . . towing capacity and payload . . . and the trailer's GVWR. In MA, I do need "commercial plates" if the TW exceeds 10,000 lbs but not a CDL. Lo and behold RAM 2500s max exactly at 10,000 . . . betcha they had to forgo steel and use aluminum to get there! Exceeding the 10,000 means that it costs me more ($150 vs. $60) to register the vehicle and I have to register every year vs. every other year . . . net $300 every other year vs. $60). Don't know why other than MA looking to raise revenue. I've yet to learn how much insurance will cost driving a vehicle with
commercial plates. Should not be more just because of plates but I suspect to get whacked just because they have another reason to whack me. Regarding info. you find from blogs, websites specializing in this stuff, AAA, dealers, etc. . . . the misinformation on this topic is unbelievable. Because of that, as I said . . . gotta be a whole lot of illegal TV/trailers out there. And I'm guessing no one knows because enforcement is nonexistent. With all said and done, I've decided to purchase a Pearl White 2018 RAM Laramie Crew Cab 4x4 Diesel SRW 6' 4" with the upgraded transmission and 20" wheels. It's real perty. Atop this will be an auto sliding hitch or sidewinder. I thank you all for helping me get there!!! Travel often, far, and safe.

[Rich5117]

Enjoy your new RV and Truck.

[llevesque]

We are all over the place over the CDL requirement. It's a Federal reg. and here's the regulations on the topic . . . https://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/retriev...#se49.5.383_15

[sunnyinfla]

The longer the wheel base the more stability you have on the road...i'd get an 8' bed......with a larger rig the tail could wag the dog...

[Slow Moon]

Originally Posted by llevesque

We are all over the place over the CDL requirement. It's a Federal reg. and here's the regulations on the topic . . . https://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/retriev...#se49.5.383_15

I’m no expert, but my 5-minute glance at the quoted federal CDL rules tell me they relate ONLY to “commercial motor vehicle (CMV)” operations in commerce. CMV "means a motor vehicle ... used in commerce to transport passengers or property” only if the motor vehicle is over 26,000 lbs, designed for 16 passengers or is a Haz Mat vehicle.

IF SO, then this federal rule does NOT require any RVer to have a CDL, and any state RV CDL rule is imposed by state law only.

I looked only at 49 CFR §383.3 Applicability and §383.5 Definitions, so there may be more. I don’t have time to review federal RV law, if any, now, but if there is someone who really knows this subject, please chime in. But PLEASE, ONLY IF YOU REALLY KNOW.

[Jim34RL]

Originally Posted by sunnyinfla

The longer the wheel base the more stability you have on the road...i'd get an 8' bed......with a larger rig the tail could wag the dog...

Are you sure that an 8' bed regular cab truck has a longer wheel base than a Dodge Mega Cab with a 6'4" bed?

For the model years 2006 thru 2010 the regular cab 8' bed has a wheel base of 140.5" and the Mega Cab with the 6'4" bed has a wheel base of 160.5" the same as the Quad Cab long box (8' bed). After 2011 Ram redesigned the truck frame and some changes were made to wheel base. But the Ram Mega Cab with the short box does have decent wheel base for towing.

[Jim34RL]

Originally Posted by Slow Moon

I’m no expert, but my 5-minute glance at the quoted federal CDL rules tell me they relate ONLY to “commercial motor vehicle (CMV)” operations in commerce. CMV "means a motor vehicle ... used in commerce to transport passengers or property” only if the motor vehicle is over 26,000 lbs, designed for 16 passengers or is a Haz Mat vehicle.

IF SO, then this federal rule does NOT require any RVer to have a CDL, and any state RV CDL rule is imposed by state law only.

I looked only at 49 CFR §383.3 Applicability and §383.5 Definitions, so there may be more. I don’t have time to review federal RV law, if any, now, but if there is someone who really knows this subject, please chime in. But PLEASE, ONLY IF YOU REALLY KNOW.

I do not think anyone has actually state that you need a CDL license to be an RV'er towing a trailer. But you do need to follow your state driving license rules. In IL and I did checked with the secretary of state police, that if my tow vehicle had a GVW of 10,000 lbs and the trailer had a GVW over 16,001 lbs. I would need a non-CDL class A license since the combined GCWR is 26,001 LBS.

[ependydad]

Originally Posted by Slow Moon

I’m no expert, but my 5-minute glance at the quoted federal CDL rules tell me they relate ONLY to “commercial motor vehicle (CMV)” operations in commerce. CMV "means a motor vehicle ... used in commerce to transport passengers or property” only if the motor vehicle is over 26,000 lbs, designed for 16 passengers or is a Haz Mat vehicle.

IF SO, then this federal rule does NOT require any RVer to have a CDL, and any state RV CDL rule is imposed by state law only.

I looked only at 49 CFR §383.3 Applicability and §383.5 Definitions, so there may be more. I don’t have time to review federal RV law, if any, now, but if there is someone who really knows this subject, please chime in. But PLEASE, ONLY IF YOU REALLY KNOW.

I'm not in the know, but that's my understanding as well.

[BandJCarm]

I'm also VERY not in the Know, but:

A) I can't see a single thing in this long document to validate what you said. You might whittle it down for us with section, clause, etc.

B) If we are all wrong, and this does apply, can you imagine the literal thousands of larger 5th wheels rated around 18K each, being towed by duallies, rated at 10K each (because of some arbitrary rating probably), making them over the limit??? Yet NONE get stopped by any federal agency. They are not commercial, is the reason. NO commerce going on.

[Slow Moon]

Originally Posted by BandJCarm

I'm also VERY not in the Know, but:

A) I can't see a single thing in this long document to validate what you said. You might whittle it down for us with section, clause, etc.

B) If we are all wrong, and this does apply, can you imagine the literal thousands of larger 5th wheels rated around 18K each, being towed by duallies, rated at 10K each (because of some arbitrary rating probably), making them over the limit??? Yet NONE get stopped by any federal agency. They are not commercial, is the reason. NO commerce going on.

49 CFR PART 383—COMMERCIAL DRIVER'S LICENSE STANDARDS; REQUIREMENTS AND PENALTIES

WHAT IT SAYS:

§383.3 Applicability.
(a) The rules in this part apply to every person who operates a commercial motor vehicle (CMV) in interstate, foreign, or intrastate commerce, to all employers of such persons, and to all States.


§383.5 Definitions.
Commercial motor vehicle (CMV) means a motor vehicle or combination of motor vehicles used in commerce to transport passengers or property if the motor vehicle is a—
(1) Combination Vehicle (Group A)—having a gross combination weight rating or gross combination weight of 11,794 kilograms or more (26,001 pounds or more), whichever is greater, inclusive of a towed unit(s) with a gross vehicle weight rating or gross vehicle weight of more than 4,536 kilograms (10,000 pounds), whichever is greater; or
(2) Heavy Straight Vehicle (Group B)—having a gross vehicle weight rating or gross vehicle weight of 11,794 or more kilograms (26,001 pounds or more), whichever is greater; or
(3) Small Vehicle (Group C) that does not meet Group A or B requirements but that either—
(i) Is designed to transport 16 or more passengers, including the driver; or
(ii) Is of any size and is used in the transportation of hazardous materials as defined in this section.

[Slow Moon]

Originally Posted by bandjcarm

i'm also very not in the know, but:

A) i can't see a single thing in this long document to validate what you said. You might whittle it down for us with section, clause, etc.

B) if we are all wrong, and this does apply, can you imagine the literal thousands of larger 5th wheels rated around 18k each, being towed by duallies, rated at 10k each (because of some arbitrary rating probably), making them over the limit??? Yet none get stopped by any federal agency. They are not commercial, is the reason. No commerce going on.

a) done above

b) yes

[BandJCarm]

Sorry, but the only thing I continue to see is that this SOLELY applies to commercial vehicles. It is clearly stated.

[Slow Moon]

Yes, this SOLELY applies to commercial vehicles. Few, if any, RVs are CMVs.

[BandJCarm]

Originally Posted by Slow Moon

Yes, this SOLELY applies to commercial vehicles. Few, if any, RVs are CMVs.

OK, I misunderstood. Thanks. I see this a lot here. Folks are convinced this fed reg applies to campers. If it did, they couldn't be pulling them over fast enough.

[Slow Moon]

Originally Posted by BandJCarm

OK, I misunderstood. Thanks. I see this a lot here. Folks are convinced this fed reg applies to campers. If it did, they couldn't be pulling them over fast enough.

Right! A key phrase for federal CDL applicability is that the motor vehicle be "used in commerce to transport passengers or property." Most of us are not doing that, but it is conceivable

"R" (Recreational) or "C" (Commercial) is the key distinction, and they are typically mutually exclusive operations.

THANK YOU

[ependydad]

Originally Posted by BandJCarm

Sorry, but the only thing I continue to see is that this SOLELY applies to commercial vehicles. It is clearly stated.

So- purely out of curiosity, I contacted the Arkansas drivers license folks. I explained that I’m a purely recreational RVer with a truck rated to 12,300 and a camper rated to 15,825 and asked:

Do I need a special license or endorsement on my license? Is a standard license sufficient?

Here’s the response:

Subject: RE: Truck pulling camper - license needed?

A standard driver's license is sufficient.

CDL Help Desk

So for you, in Arkansas, you’re all set.

[BandJCarm]

Ha. Well THAT was a cool thing to do!

From what I see, we pretty much get to do whatever we want. Go get a DL at 16, pass the eye test every 8 years, pull anything you want, including triple towing (I've seen quadruple). Camper/Trailer tags are permanent, one time, and not expensive. There's no inspection (anymore) required to get a license for any vehicle. Just prove you paid your Personal Property Tax on it.

I guess we're way more Civilized than is often portrayed! LOL

[Slow Moon]

Originally Posted by BandJCarm

Ha. Well THAT was a cool thing to do!

From what I see, we pretty much get to do whatever we want. Go get a DL at 16, pass the eye test every 8 years, pull anything you want, including triple towing (I've seen quadruple). Camper/Trailer tags are permanent, one time, and not expensive. There's no inspection (anymore) required to get a license for any vehicle. Just prove you paid your Personal Property Tax on it.

I guess we're way more Civilized than is often portrayed! LOL

PROVIDED THAT YOUR STATE AGREES!

From what I have seen, it appears that almost all do. It seems only a few of the more highly regulated states may impose extra license requirements on larger RVs. Even if they do, it should not be a "CDL." That "C" is for commercial, which our "Rs" are not. Maybe it's an "LVDL" or "LRVDL."

[Slow Moon]

Originally Posted by ependydad

So- purely out of curiosity, I contacted the Arkansas drivers license folks.

***

So for you, in Arkansas, you’re all set.

Good to know. Good job!

So I think we are WAY off topic here. If anyone wants to start a thread on the actual subject of Federal/State "CDL" requirement for our RVs, please feel free to use anything I have contributed.

[ependydad]

Originally Posted by Slow Moon

So I think we are WAY off topic here.

True. My apologies to the OP.