Upgrading from F-150 to F-250

[Wileykid]

Originally Posted by moose074

I don’t doubt your statement, even though the regulations clearly state ( paraphrasing) fees are for commercial vehicles are in addition to regular fees. I also noticed difference in price if bought in even year verses odd year. Sure they have a reason but I am skeptical. California registration is so confusing most workers don’t know them

All pickup trucks registered in California are registered as commercial, unless you put a shell on the back and register it as a regular vehicle. Yes it is legal, but good luck. The weight penalty, which is in addition to the regular fee's, made it almost $850 yearly registration for me. Here in Tennessee, I just looked at my registration, and there is no weight penalty on it, so I think paid just under $60 a year total for registration on my new 1 ton.

[john777]

Originally Posted by Wileykid

When I was living in California back in 2017, they charged me a $270 penalty for my '16 3/4 ton truck that had the 10K GVWR.

Just found (https://www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/dmv/de...ppendix1f_fees). Pickup trucks are licensed as commercial vehicles, and it looks like over 10K lbs, you are looking at $332 penalty, which a 1 ton will be. Not sure how, but they also show that from 9K - 10K lbs, the penalty is $360.

End result, it looks like any two axle 10K+ lb truck will have the same weight penalty cost.

Thanks for checking that out, I tried the website a few times while I was overseas and was blocked. Yes my 150 is registered as commercial.

[Kl859]

Originally Posted by john777

Maybe someone from CA could jump in and comment on the DMV tax for a 250 vs a 350?

I am guessing have never lived in Kentucky where property tax on tags is high many other states as well.

[john777]

I’ve been doing a lot of thinking and I’m glad posted here. This is my annual plan for the new trailer, hence the need to move up from my cruise lite.

The trailer will be used as an apartment at a RV park in Marin. I will live full time in Sonoma. 35 min drive between the two. I will buy this 5th wheel and put it in the RV park from September to May. ( my young kids go to school in Marin and Sonoma is too far to drive them to school when I have custody). (The ex lives in Marin). Once the kids get out of school in June, the 5th wheel goes to my property in Sonoma for the summer and is used as an extra apartment there for guests. I do one trip in the summer, the NHRA Sonoma drag races and that is 15 minutes from my house in Sonoma.

Why wouldn’t I just pay someone to haul my trailer around when needed ( or make friends with a 350/450 owner) and keep my King Ranch F150 that I absolutely love and avoid the expense of changing trucks until my 150 croaks? 125k miles on it now.

Annual trip plan:
May 31 to house in Sonoma.
July 23 to Drags
July 27 to house in Sonoma
September 8 to RV park in Marin until the following May.

I know too much info, but this is the kind of stuff you do when you love your kids!

[007matman]

Relying on someone else to move it may be difficult and stretch friendships..

Have you considered picking up an older F350 Dually w/ the 7.3? You could probably find one under 10k. Leave that with the RV.

[john777]

Originally Posted by 007matman

Relying on someone else to move it may be difficult and stretch friendships..

Have you considered picking up an older F350 Dually w/ the 7.3? You could probably find one under 10k. Leave that with the RV.

Lets forget the friends. I'd have to pay someone for 4 movements per year. How much is a 45 minute movement?

[john777]

Originally Posted by 007matman

Relying on someone else to move it may be difficult and stretch friendships..

Have you considered picking up an older F350 Dually w/ the 7.3? You could probably find one under 10k. Leave that with the RV.

https://sfbay.craigslist.org/sby/lbs...035637318.html


https://sfbay.craigslist.org/nby/lbs...045845544.html


Certainly if I found a reliable person and gave plenty of notice, this would be very workable.

[007matman]

Well.. there you go then.

Good luck.

[Keithfirefighter]

I agree 100% ! You might save a little money on registration fee's and other things by going with the 3/4 ton but get into 1 accident and the dot come weighs the rig and finds out your over weight and then find out how much a person will be paying out of pocket ! I know in Pa they are starting to crack down on 3/4 ton trucks pulling 35,38,40 foot rigs ! There pulling them in at dot check points and bringing out the scales ! Then there looking at your license and if its a class C your only legal to tow less than 10000lbs and that goes off of the gvwr of the trailer not what it actually weighs ! In my opinion id do the 1 ton and not worry about the registration fees and other little fees !

[jcschultz01]

I was originally looking at Fords but found what I considered better reviews/specs/comments on Rams (a religious issue I know - please no flames) with a Cummins diesel.

My wife liked the ride of a 1 ton diesel better than the 3/4 ton diesel (Ram 2500) so I gave in (smiling) and went with the Ram 3500 with the Aisin transmission. I liked the extra beefy transmission, the adjustable air shock ride height and my wife liked the color (dark red). The truck seems to have every feature possible except a moonroof (which I hate so a plus). It also came with frame mounting pucks for a 5th wheel or gooseneck hitch.

I have about 17000 miles on it, most of it pulling a 9500 lb 32' Forest River 5th wheel. There is no comparison to my old 1/2 ton Toyota Tundra. I am in control and the truck and trailer are "one"

A word of caution however. Modern trucks ride a LOT higher than 5th wheel trailers seem to be designed. With the hitch I originally had, there was a slope of 9 inches front to back!!!

I got a lower hitch, put on larger tires/wheels and am now within a couple-3 inches front to back level.

[raysen]

Originally Posted by MT Biker

You will not have enough payload capacity with a diesel and 3/4 ton truck, needs to be a 1-ton with a diesel.

Right on . Safety for all

[imjustdave]

Originally Posted by AlaskaErik

The decision on what to buy should be based on what you are pulling, not the tax/legal implications of 3/4 vs one ton.

Ironically in my state a tax of 1.1 % every year based on inflated value isn't charged on 1 ton pickups so it's actually cheaper.

Dear OP
Buy a 1 ton, skip the 3/4. also if your really looking for a big 5er seriously consider the DRW the training wheels really help with windy drives and full size tall 5th wheels, I know last year I had a section of road with some side wind that made me pay attention not uncomfortable scary but I was paying attention and looking for ways out as it pushed us a bunch down the road.

My 5th wheel specs are. I don't recall real world scale weight, but I never regret having a DRW on my 2006 dodge.

Dry Axle Weight (approx. Lbs.):10122
Dry Hitch Weight (approx. Lbs.):2778
Net Carrying Capacity:3100
Gross Dry Weight – Lbs.:12900
Gross Vehicle Weight (GVWR) – Lbs.:16000

[findthehumorinthings]

These statements don’t apply to me and my 3500 Dmax.
1. I live in Tennessee
2. My county does emissions but they waive my truck of that requirement and expense because it exceeds 10,500lbs gvwr
3. I can hook to almost anything (up to a 42 footer or so) and pull it without worrying about all of this payload limitation concern.
4. My insurance rate on that truck is almost exactly the same as my wife’s Honda Pilot.

Get the one ton and stop the need to even think about the weight any more.

Originally Posted by 67L48

There are roughly five reasons to get a 3/4 ton over a 1 ton:

1. Registration Fees. In some areas, registration is based on GVWR or the Class of the vehicle. In those areas, it may be more expensive to register a Class 3 1-ton than a Class 2b 3/4 ton truck. And, in addition to cost, there may be other hoops to jump through that make it a PITA.
2. Insurance. In some areas and/or with some companies, it may be more expensive to insure a 1-ton than a 3/4 ton.
3. Licensure & Commercial Restrictions. When used in a commercial setting (it's the boss' truck for his small contractor business, e.g.), CDL requirements may come into play based on GVWR. If you use your truck as part of a commercial business when you're not towing for personal reasons, it may be onerous to own a 1-ton.
4. Supply & Demand. There are generally more 3/4 tons around. So, if you're buying used or buying new-off-the-lot, it may be difficult to find a 1-ton that meets your needs/wants. In that case, the buyer may be sort of forced into buying a 3/4 ton.
5. Outdated Conventional Wisdom. The 1-ton is "too much truck," it rides way too stiff, it's "too big," it's way too expensive, etc. This one feeds item 4 ... it's a self-feeding loop.

Items 1-3 are really good reasons to steer away from the 1-ton. In fact, there are several here (and elsewhere) who have documented why they grabbed a 3/4 ton precisely due to item #3.

A person has to figure out what the rules/regs are in his area and make a good decision.

[JRogers984]

It's tires!
The sticker on the door will have the tires shipped on the truck, which is always lower then the spec sheet.
Tires are very important. A blow out will chance everything.

[Grapehound]

The OP's proposed 15k 5-er is a big heavy trailer.

We tow a relatively light Rockwood Signature UltraLite fifth wheel. It has a listed dry weight of about 7,857lbs. Payload is listed at 1,308 lbs. Gross trailer weight is rated at 9,165. It's a lightweight trailer.

Forest River says it's even half ton towable.

Ha ha ha ha ha ha

We tow this lightweight 5-er with a 2008 Dodge RAM Megacab diesel dually. Should have lots of excess capability right?

Actually, no.

Truck alone has so much weight with the big megacab body, 4WD and diesel, that the cargo sticker says its cargo capacity is just 2,285.

We went to a CAT scale last summer with our clothes, food and full propane tanks in the trailer (all water tanks empty). Truck carried a fifth wheel hitch installed, 5 gal of water on board, 240 lbs of dogs and my wife and I for another 400lbs.

CAT scale said

Steer axle was 5100 (max is 5,200)
Drive axle was 5580 (max is 9350)
Trailer axles were 7,140
Gross weight of rig was 17,820

My truck's GVWR on the sticker is 10,500 and we had 10,680 lbs just on the truck's two axles.

Who would think that an ultra-light fifth wheel which is modestly loaded would exceed my big RAM dually's weight limits?

It is hard to picture a 15k fifth wheel being loaded and towed with a 4WD diesel 3/4 ton with any cargo margin at all, not to mention adverse conditions. (Maybe a regular cab 2WD would have enough cargo capcity ... but who tows with one of those?)

I like the fact that my 8,000# truck outweighs my fifth wheel so the tail isn't wagging the dog. The more this forum teaches me about towing, the more I want the safety margins associated with a bigger truck and a smaller trailer.

[Traveler_GAL]

My 2019 V8 F250s payload is over 3k BUT my truck is bone stock except for all the 4x stuff. Wouldn’t ever by a 2wd. No bells No whistles. ALSO I don’t ever intend to pull a 5r. Just an Airstream (working on trading in my Coachmen right now) with all my gear in the back bed and 3 days worth of firewood. I want to be able to pull in almost anywhere and fit.

I would get the 1T Dually for the 5r. It just makes sense. Never max out your truck, that’s how things break. I’ve learned from experience and it’s a very very costly $$ mistake. ((( missing my Dodge 1500 )))
Good Luck in your search.

[JerryS]

Originally Posted by john777

I've been pulling my 31' Salem Cruise Light with a 2011 F-150 King Ranch.


I'd like to upgrade to a 5th Wheel and I'm looking at purchasing a 2012 F-250 to pull the new 5th wheel.



I've pulled up these two Spec sheets from Ford and they are loaded with great information. I'll be using these to figure out the max weight of the 5th wheel i plan on purchasing.



To cut to the chase, after reading the charts and going over the specs on the 2012 F-250 I plan on buying, i think I can pull a 15,200 # 5th wheel.

F-250 4x4 SuperCrew Cab with the 6.7 Turbo Diesel.



https://cdn.dealereprocess.net/cdn/b...0superduty.pdf


and this goes into great depth as well


https://www.fleet.ford.com/resources...VTTgdeMar1.pdf


Ford has these for most years, you can look them over for your Ford vehicle. I'm sure they must have already been posted, if not, great reading and good info for a Ford owner wanting to know what Ford says you can pull.


I was trying reply to old emails, but I'm not allowed after a certain period time has passed, hence my new post...

With a 5th wheel you must not only be concerned with towing weight, but, equally important is the trucks payload capacity. And payload includes the 5vers pin weight, but the 5th wheel hitch weight, any other items in the bed, fuel, plus people and items in the trucks cabin. Dealers are quick to tout tow capacity, but few will mention payload, and worse do not know it or how to find it before you buy the vehicle. Be sue to determine the payload before you buy.

[sunnyinfla]

250?????go with a 350

[jrk341]

Originally Posted by Grapehound

The OP's proposed 15k 5-er is a big heavy trailer.

We tow a relatively light Rockwood Signature UltraLite fifth wheel. It has a listed dry weight of about 7,857lbs. Payload is listed at 1,308 lbs. Gross trailer weight is rated at 9,165. It's a lightweight trailer.

Forest River says it's even half ton towable.

Ha ha ha ha ha ha

We tow this lightweight 5-er with a 2008 Dodge RAM Megacab diesel dually. Should have lots of excess capability right?

Actually, no.

Truck alone has so much weight with the big megacab body, 4WD and diesel, that the cargo sticker says its cargo capacity is just 2,285.

We went to a CAT scale last summer with our clothes, food and full propane tanks in the trailer (all water tanks empty). Truck carried a fifth wheel hitch installed, 5 gal of water on board, 240 lbs of dogs and my wife and I for another 400lbs.

CAT scale said

Steer axle was 5100 (max is 5,200)
Drive axle was 5580 (max is 9350)
Trailer axles were 7,140
Gross weight of rig was 17,820

My truck's GVWR on the sticker is 10,500 and we had 10,680 lbs just on the truck's two axles.

Who would think that an ultra-light fifth wheel which is modestly loaded would exceed my big RAM dually's weight limits?

It is hard to picture a 15k fifth wheel being loaded and towed with a 4WD diesel 3/4 ton with any cargo margin at all, not to mention adverse conditions. (Maybe a regular cab 2WD would have enough cargo capcity ... but who tows with one of those?)

I like the fact that my 8,000# truck outweighs my fifth wheel so the tail isn't wagging the dog. The more this forum teaches me about towing, the more I want the safety margins associated with a bigger truck and a smaller trailer.

It's amazing how far trucks have come. My truck in my signature has a gvwr of 11,500. I think the dually's today are 14,000 gvwr.

[Keithfirefighter]

Originally Posted by jrk341

It's amazing how far trucks have come. My truck in my signature has a gvwr of 11,500. I think the dually's today are 14,000 gvwr.

I agree my 16 3500 SRW Mega Cab has a GVWR of 12300 !