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Old 08-22-2019, 09:10 AM   #1
swj
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upgrading to F250?

Thoughts on upgrading to F250? I have a FRive Survey 6000lbs dry, 7200lbs ioaded. Front fresh water tank filled. Trailer has Goodyear Endurance tires. TVehicle is a 2018 F150 SCrew, 3.5L turbo, max tow pkg with 20 inch wheels. Equalizer 12000lbs, 4 way hitch is dialed in.

I get "normal" sway. A lot of sway in 20 mph wind. "Truck suck" is bad when a 18 wheeler passes. Braking in stop in go traffic is poor. Overall the TVechile seems to be max out. Towing takes 2 "soft hands" hands on the wheel at all times to compensate for sway/truck suck and breaking. The truck has plenty of power, overhaul handling is the concern.

Looking at upgrading to F250 2 wheel drive 6.7L gasser. Comments on the improved towing experience if I make the upgrade?

Estimate of MPGallon towing and no trailer(daily driver)? Ride quality of F250 as a daily driver?
Thxs
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Old 08-22-2019, 09:17 AM   #2
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I have been really pleased when I went from my 2011 F150 with Ecoboost to my 2015 Ram 2500. Much more stable, pulled the trailer and stopped the trailer effortlessly. The gas mileage is terrible, it's gas. So if you are thinking about this, then don't. Wait and get a diesel, you'll only be disappointed.
You will be pleased with your towing experience. Thinking about gas mileage while towing is like thinking about steak while eating chicken. You'll only be disappointed.
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Old 08-22-2019, 09:27 AM   #3
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I cannot speak directly for the gasser (6.2? the 6.7 is diesel) but the average is likely around 11-13 mpg with less than 10 towing. I have the 6.7 diesel and average 15-16 daily driving and 12 mpg towing an 11,000 pound 34WRS. Long haul empty I am at 19ish mpg. It is not as comfortable a ride as my friends 150 unless there is 500 pounds in the bed. Either engine will pull 7,000 without a problem and you should not experience sway. I get a little sway with my trailer every now and then but it is still a 1 handed driving experience. The trailer is 40 feet long so I expect a little wagging now and then. It has 4 wheel brakes, but the 250 does fine with it none the less.
Hope that helps.
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Old 08-22-2019, 09:41 AM   #4
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How long is the trailer? We had the typical semi suck-in when we had a WDH with no sway control, then we got the Equalizer and I hardly notice any suck-in. Braking shouldn't really be the fault of the tow vehicle. Trailer brakes, controller or wiring might need to be looked at.

As for daily driving with an HD vehicle, it's an adjustment. I've driven HD trucks from the big 3 manufacturers through work for years so I knew what I was getting into when upgrading from our half ton. The newer trucks are getting fairly smooth, but we get some broken pavement/potholes and you definitely feel it.
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Old 08-22-2019, 10:08 AM   #5
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We towed with a half ton for years, because that's what we had at the time. When we made the move to a bigger truck, we kicked ourselves for waiting so long! Then when we moved from gas to diesel, again, why did we wait? Ok, money availability does play a part
I always advise anybody who is serious about RVing to buy the largest truck you can. If you plan on ever having a bumper pull larger than 26', or any fifth wheel/toy hauler, just buy the bigger truck. 1/2 tons are certainly better than they used to be, but they are still smaller, lighter, less robust tow vehicles. If you know you will always have a smaller TT, then stick with the half ton, nothing wrong with that.
Once you make the move to a more capable TV, you will also kick yourself for waiting so long. The towing experience is night and day.
As far as every day drivability, I really don't notice much difference in the modern day HD trucks from the half tons with the tow packages. We have both half and 3/4 ton trucks. I honestly prefer the 3/4 ton for my every day driving. The one tons on the farm are a little rougher, but it's just what you get used to. Now when I drive a half ton, they just feel mushy
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Old 08-22-2019, 10:12 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swj View Post
Thoughts on upgrading to F250? I have a FRive Survey 6000lbs dry, 7200lbs ioaded. Front fresh water tank filled. Trailer has Goodyear Endurance tires. TVehicle is a 2018 F150 SCrew, 3.5L turbo, max tow pkg with 20 inch wheels. Equalizer 12000lbs, 4 way hitch is dialed in.

I get "normal" sway. A lot of sway in 20 mph wind. "Truck suck" is bad when a 18 wheeler passes. Braking in stop in go traffic is poor. Overall the TVechile seems to be max out. Towing takes 2 "soft hands" hands on the wheel at all times to compensate for sway/truck suck and breaking. The truck has plenty of power, overhaul handling is the concern.

Looking at upgrading to F250 2 wheel drive 6.7L gasser. Comments on the improved towing experience if I make the upgrade?

Estimate of MPGallon towing and no trailer(daily driver)? Ride quality of F250 as a daily driver?
Thxs
I tow a 5th wheel so my towing experience is different than yours so I won't comment on that.

My 2017 4X4 F-250 SCREW Lariat 6.2L gas (6.7 is Diesel) with a 3.73 rear and 18" tires gets about 9 MPG towing and about 14 MPG as a daily driver. It took me to about 20k before I started to get that mileage. Up until then I was at 7 towing and 12 as a daily driver.

I am very pleased with the ride (loaded and unloaded) and even more so since I got rid of the stock Continental tires and installed Michelins.
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Old 08-22-2019, 10:17 AM   #7
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You may want to fine tune your WDH for the "normal sway" thing.
As for the semis passing, if your camper is a long one, AirTabs may be the solution.
My camper is 9000lbs loaded, almost 35ft tongue to bumper and the Airtabs really made the difference when it comes to semis push/pull to the point I can use two fingers on the wheel when they are passing me with no problems....
Now, if I was considering upgrading the truck, I'd go with F350... The increased paylod of the F350 will allow you to have more options when you decide to upgrade the camper down the road....
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Old 08-22-2019, 10:30 AM   #8
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Good idea. Next add a sway bar for $100.
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Old 08-22-2019, 10:34 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swj View Post
Thoughts on upgrading to F250? I have a FRive Survey 6000lbs dry, 7200lbs ioaded. Front fresh water tank filled. Trailer has Goodyear Endurance tires. TVehicle is a 2018 F150 SCrew, 3.5L turbo, max tow pkg with 20 inch wheels. Equalizer 12000lbs, 4 way hitch is dialed in.

I get "normal" sway. A lot of sway in 20 mph wind. "Truck suck" is bad when a 18 wheeler passes. Braking in stop in go traffic is poor. Overall the TVechile seems to be max out. Towing takes 2 "soft hands" hands on the wheel at all times to compensate for sway/truck suck and breaking. The truck has plenty of power, overhaul handling is the concern.

Looking at upgrading to F250 2 wheel drive 6.7L gasser. Comments on the improved towing experience if I make the upgrade?

Estimate of MPGallon towing and no trailer(daily driver)? Ride quality of F250 as a daily driver?
Thxs
How long is your trailer? Your hitch may not be as dialed in as you think. We just got back from a trip of 300 miles on 2 lane highway passing lots of 18 wheelers and I didn't even notice. Granted, my trailer is 1,300 lbs less and shorter, but I felt absolutely nothing when passed by a truck. I also get zero sway in cross winds. Went through several miles of 20 mph cross winds and the trailer did not sway at all. At times I felt the entire rig being pushed to the side by the wind but no sway.

Was your hitch dialed in by the dealer? Through experience I discovered that they can't be completely trusted. I watched the dealer install my Equalizer on my old truck. There was a whole lot of "yup, looks good to me" going on. The trailer pulled ok with my "old" 2011 SCREW maxtow on the few trips we took it out. This year I replaced that truck with a 2016 SCREW maxtow and discovered the hitch had to be redone since my previous truck had about 3 inches of lift and such.

After much mulling it over I decided that I would do it myself using the original manufacturer's instructions and a lot of YouTube university. I learned a lot about the hitch and in the process discovered that the brackets on the trailer tongue were not installed within manufacturer's specs. Reinstalled everything from scratch following the manufacturer's instructions. Even some stuff didn't seem right but it is all under their specs. Trailer tows awesome.

A lot of sway can also come from tongue weight, as in not enough. I know you said you carry a full tank of water (is it in front of the axles?) but it is better to be a little over tongue weight than under. Under can result is sway.

As for your brakes, sounds like the gain on your controller isn't set right or you aren't getting any signal back to the brakes at all. You have a 2018 EB maxtow. That truck is a beast in towing. Your trailer is well within it's capabilities. There are issues here that I don't think are the truck.
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Old 08-22-2019, 10:38 AM   #10
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X2 - very good suggestions. I always marvel at how I can apply power to my 2005 Ram 2500 diesel and easily pull up a grade without shifting gears (I have the 6 speed manual tranny). The truck has been a great tow vehicle for all of these 14 years (and still going strong).

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Old 08-22-2019, 10:48 AM   #11
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I upgraded from a Frontier to the Ram, it is freight train stable and the power is limitless. The Ram also gets same fuel mileage as my Frontier. It helps my TT is relatively light.
Diesels have higher maintenance costs and require dual fuel filters, DEF, DPF regen and certain other learning curve issues.
The Ram is big and perfect size for long trips. It is clumsy excess for local errands, I have a Subaru Outback for that.
I did get Lund side steps for it, it is a long way up to the cab for old farts like me.
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Old 08-22-2019, 10:59 AM   #12
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I can answer your situation as I tow a trailer that is 27 feet long and weights right at 6,500 lbs. loaded. Our first TV was and 08 F150 Screw, I know not the same as your TV, but similar. We upgraded to a 16 F250 6.2 gas. The towing experience was dramatic, no more being pushed around under any conditions. The trailer feels stable using an Equalizer brand hitch (set up by me). Plenty of power for us, I can pull very long 7% grades at 55-60 running 4,000 rpm. Towing mileage is right at 9 -9.5 and unloaded it is 12 mixed. I like the ride of a ĺ ton truck so it is fine for me; it is not my daily driver. My only complaint is that it squats too much when hooked up to the trailer causing my headlights to blind people. I am going to install airbags for that purpose only. Make the change you will not be disappointed.
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Old 08-22-2019, 11:01 AM   #13
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I'm following this for different reasons. I'm looking at 2500's for the payload. Towing a 28' <6000# loaded TT w/ wife's Durango (5.7L and tow package). I've adjusted the E2 hitch a couple times and the trailer pulls great. Don't notice semi's passing, but can tell when the wind picks up. I've CAT scaled the setup and everything is in spec (except tongue is 20# over), but we can't put anything in the TV except my 60# extension ladder. I'd like to be able to haul a generator, bikes, kayak when we retire- so I need more payload. I might be able to do that with a higher payload 1500/150; but the Durango is at 1300# payload w/ a 7100# GVW; so it's in line with most 1500/150's i've looked at. Everybody's situation is different, but that's why I'm looking at 3/4 ton TV's.
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Old 08-22-2019, 11:52 AM   #14
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We had an 2012 F150 with EB and max tow when we bought our camper.It's a Coachmen Apex 249rbs with a gvw of 7000lbs. Our first tow with it was disappointing to say the least. I took a route that I new would test the trucks ability to tow in the mountains of northern MD. Tomorrow we will be taking the same route with our new tow vehicle. It's a 2019 F350 with the 6.7L diesel.

I went with the F350 after building an F250 & F350 on Ford.com. When building the trucks if you add the High Capacity Trailer Tow Package to the F250 and all other options are the same the F350 was $45 more than the F250.

If you want a gas truck I would wait for the 2020 Superduty's with the new 7.3L gas with the 10 sp auto.
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Old 08-22-2019, 12:02 PM   #15
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Going from an '11 Ecoboost to a '16 6.2 was a noticeable difference.

Our trailer is 30' total with a 25' box weighing 7500. While the F150 had plenty of power, it lacked payload capacity and stability on the road. The F150 weighed about 5675 dry and 7200 fully loaded . In the 4k miles we towed our trailer with the F150, we were never in any danger; however, the truck never felt "planted" on the road. The truck was also maxed out the 1529 available payload and with another kid on the way and 2 already growing, the F150 got too small for our family.

Stepping up to the F250, the dry weight is 7225 and has a payload of 2766. Fully loaded, the truck weighs about 9100 and handles the trailer with ease. The beefier suspension, larger brakes, more robust frame and overall mass really do handle the trailer better. The other main difference is that the wheelbase of the F250 is 11" longer (156" vs 145") and that helps the vehicle track better.

Driveability of the 6.2 while towing is different but not in a bad or good way....just different. The 6.2 will rev higher than the Ecoboost and the transmission shifts more often....it does this by design. Without the boost of the turbos, the engine needs higher RPM to make more power. It's very happy at 3500 RPM in 3rd gear motoring up most hills. In comparison, the Ecoboost pulled the same hills in 3rd gear at about 3500 RPM but it was also running lots of boost. On paper, while towing, the fuel mileage is the same in both trucks. Both averaged 8.0-8.4 MPG towing; however, the argument can be made that the 6.2 is having to move an extra 2000 pounds....pound for pound, the 6.2 can move more mass using the same amount of fuel as the Ecoboost.

The only downside going from the Ecoboost to the 6.2 is the fuel used while running around empty. The Eco could get up to 19mpg going 65mph down the highway....it got about 14mpg in town (most of my driving). The 6.2 gets about 14mpg on the highway and about 11mpg in town. Again, on paper, those MPG numbers look like a crazy difference but they're really not. With the city driving being in the majority, the difference is not that much. And, keeping track of the unloaded vs. towing miles, my F250 spends 36% of it's life towing our trailer....so, for 1/3 of the usage of the F150 or F250, they would be getting the same mpg.

My thoughts on upgrading a 1/2 ton to a 3/4 vs 1 ton are as follows:
Go with a 3/4 ton gasser if:
1. You are towing less than 10k pounds
2. You want maximum payload
3. You won't be upgrading trailers
If you don't meet the above 3 criteria, go with a 1 ton diesel

Hope this helps.

I found these 2 videos were good reviews in the F150 vs F250 gasser comparison:

https://youtu.be/XHv-6ka9zKk

https://youtu.be/H6GJtspa5SE
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Old 08-25-2019, 11:47 PM   #16
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We recently went from a 2016 EB MaxTow +0 a 2018 F 2506.2 gasser. The trailer is a rockwood 2905, load on the scales we weigh in at around 8400 lbs and the trailer is 34'. I did all of the upgrades to the f-150... LT Tires , bilsteih shocks... and a Pro Pride hitch from my Equalizer . I would say the 3P Made a massive difference And sway was gone. 100%. No truck suck. no worries about wind. The mods made the maxed out F150 handle much better. However we were right at max PL number as well as RAWR. We wanted more room in the capacity so we upgraded to the F25O, I will say its a big noticeable step up. Feel way more planted. Sort of hand to describe. But combining the F250 with the Pro Pride hitch make for the most stable towing platform for a TT out there. People will say don't waste your money on a $3k hitch but then tell you to spend $10k more for diesel towing less the 10,000lbs. Now I will say I really do miss the half ton. I drive a lot for work, so it is not the most pleasant to drive and park. I get about 8-9 mpg towing, 13-14 average, and up to 16-17 highway. It likes to down shift and use 4-th a lot for hills, and cruise doesn't work well towing with the 6,2 vs the 3.5. I have learned to control the shifting somewhat with the pedal. In general, I like the uprade, although we never had issue with the F-150 after the 3P hitch. However I really do miss the daily driving aspect of the half ton.... So much that we are debating going back to one.
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Old 08-26-2019, 06:55 AM   #17
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We came back yesterday from our weekend of camping. The new TV was amazing in the hills going across I68 in MD. It never went below 5th gear at whatever speed I had the cruise set at. I for one am happy with the diesel.

My truck is a daily driver and I enjoy driving it everyday. Did my F150 ride better, sure it did but I like the firmer ride of the F350. The ride is not harsh by any means but firm.
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Old 08-26-2019, 07:09 AM   #18
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I upgraded from a Frontier to the Ram, it is freight train stable and the power is limitless. The Ram also gets same fuel mileage as my Frontier. It helps my TT is relatively light.
Diesels have higher maintenance costs and require dual fuel filters, DEF, DPF regen and certain other learning curve issues.
The Ram is big and perfect size for long trips. It is clumsy excess for local errands, I have a Subaru Outback for that.
I did get Lund side steps for it, it is a long way up to the cab for old farts like me.
Dual fuel filters ??? My 2014 GMC Duramax only had one fuel filter.
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Old 08-26-2019, 11:24 AM   #19
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Dual fuel filters ??? My 2014 GMC Duramax only had one fuel filter.
Yup My 18 Ram 3500 has 2 also..One on the drivers side engine you can get to from top and one underneath.
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Old 08-26-2019, 05:22 PM   #20
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I am pulling a 183 model TT with a traverse and I have been looking at the 2020 Silverado 2500 and while looking I glanced at some 1500ís just to see what the payloads were. They were anywhere from 1500 to 1900. The more options the lower the payload. The cost difference between the 1500 and 2500 is so minimal (pennies basically) I do not even know why I considered a 1500 in the beginning of my search. With a 2500 regardless of manufacturer with a gasser you are looking at 3400lbs and up to almost 3900# payload (for new models) Diesel will be less payload but more power for the mountains and certainly will do the job. Here is a payload sticker and trailering info. off the one model I am looking at getting this fall. Good luck in your search. I know I will not regret my decision at all and neither will you.

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