Uphill Towing Concern/New Tow Vehicle Advice

[hicksie]

If I can add my 2 cents worth My F250 6.2 ltr gas engine pulls our 40' Crusader 5er quite comfortably even on the steep mountainous terrain we have travelled. I have considerable heavy towing experience with heavy tow trucks or wreckers and semis. The big thing is to keep the shifter in tow haul and when you see the engine rpm drop to 2500 rpm kick it down to the next lower gear. When the RPM increases again near the top of the incline to about 3500-4000 let the trany upshift again. You will get used to the right rpm and gear range. Hope this helps oh and I have often played leap frog with people hauling similar trailer combination as mine for miles and miles with diesel rigs which proves to me that the 6.2 gasser meets our towing needs. Oh and the fuel consumption difference is minimal like 2 MPG on average.

[Crusadernoob]

Turn that son of a gun up to 5,000-5,500 rpm like it wants just as you start up the hill, problem solved!

[hicksie]

True Crusadernob the higher rpm may ve needed on some of the longer steep grades and I have on occasion had to maintain the 5000+ both on the uphill and downhill to use the engine for braking as well. These engines are tough and like having the carbon blown out of them as well.

[jjuscg]

I'm learning something here... I'm towing a 29ft TT, about 7,500 lbs with a 5.4 Expedition. I have encountered a few grades out west where I "struggled" to go faster than 45mph. BUT, I was trying to "protect" my engine from going over 4,000 RPM in an apparently mistaken opinion that this would be harmful!



I have a new technique to try next time I tackle one of those long steep grades!! Thanks for the education. That's why I keep in touch with this forum.

[Joe-Barb]

We own a FR Rockwood 2608ws TT and tv is a 2013 Ram 2500 4x4
mega cab 5.7 Hemi and have over 40,000 miles of towing since 2013 all over US and have no trouble towing through mountains 65-70mph. You will have no trouble pulling with 3/4 ton with a gasser if you want. Good Luck with your choice and happy and safe travels.

2013 Rockwood. 2608ws
2013 Ram 2500 4x4 mega cab 5.7 Hemi
US Air Force Msgt Retired

[katkt]

Originally Posted by hub092593

Thanks to all so far that have responded and to all future posters.



Most likely this is only a driver not having a clue issue. To answer some of your questions....



We live in Western New York and haven't traveled out of state yet. We have stayed close to home until we were more confident with towing, parking and setup. We have camped in Allegany and Letchworth state parks and parts of central NY.



Yes, I am using Tow/Haul mode.



Yes, I am concerned about the high rev of the engine while going up hills and not being able to maintain my speed.



No, I have not checked my trailer brakes.



@katkt, Being the first truck we ever owned, I agree, I am probably riding and not driving it. My tach goes from 0 to 6000 rpms. I do have "manual" (a.k.a. Range selection mode) on the truck. I do have an 8 speed and I am quoting from the owners manual here....

With an 8–speed automatic transmission, hold the plus/minus buttons on the shift lever to select the highest or lowest range available for the current vehicle speed. When the shift lever is moved from D (Drive) to M(Manual Mode), a number displays next to the M, indicating the current transmission range.



This number is the highest gear that the transmission will command while operating in M (Manual Mode). All gears below that number are available. As driving conditions change, the transmission can automatically shift to lower gears. For example, when M5 is selected, 1 (First) through 5 (Fifth) gears are automatically shifted by the transmission, but 6 (Sixth) cannot be used until the plus/minus button on the shift lever is used to change to the range.

Do you think manual mode will help with my concern?

You betcha. Use that tranny. I’m jealous of the newer trannies. My trucks a 2010.

When you get ready to pull a hill, do as mentioned a couple of post back. Put the shifter in manual mode, then downshift one gear. This will make the engine rev slightly, and the truck speed may increase a little if you don’t ease off the gas a bit, until the grade starts to be felt.
Don’t let the truck bog down. Find the sweet spot. It will vary, depending on conditions. If you are still in to high of a gear, your speed will start to slow and the rpms will start slacking off also, even though your pushing the accelerator. If you see that happening, down shift another gear.
Keep watching things, until the truck is maintaining speed, and even gaining when in that gear. When you find that sweet spot, just maintain that speed, in that gear.
Remember when you get to the top, and you feel the speed increasing, its time to upshift a gear. Don’t do it to soon. Wait for the speed to start increasing as the road levels out.
As another member mentioned, learn to anticipate where you need to be based on what’s coming. Get out ahead on the rpms, so you’re not having to to jump two gears down at a time. Try not to wait to long, before downshifting, if you have to.

I’ve been asleep at the wheel a couple of times, and had to play catch up. Generally, when I’m pulling a grade and maintaining my speed in the correct gear, I can actually increase my speed a little. I know then, I’m in the sweet spot. The rpms are at that point, where the motor is making the power needed.
When you get to that spot, just stay there. Maintain that speed and rpms. You can always experiment a little, and see if upshifting is okay, but if you do and start losing speed, you know you need to step back down to the next lower gear.
You’ll get the hang of it. Listen to the motor, and watch your speed and rpms. That’ll tell you what to do. You come out west where the wind blows, you may find using the manual mode will make it easier to find the right gear to keep the tranny from shifting up and down to much when running over flat ground, but bucking a wind.

You will also notice when going down a grade in tow/haul mode, the tranny if it is in auto mode, will shift down all by itself when you step on the brake. I’ve come down grades out west, without even having to touch the brakes once the tranny is in the correct gear. If your downhill speed is still increasing, and you step on the brake again, the tranny will step down another gear. The motor works as a brake. The rpms will increase every time the tranny downshifts.
When you get to the bottom, and the speed starts slowing and you touch the accelerator, it’ll automatically go back to whatever gear the truck determines is correct. More then likely, the highest gear.
If you’re going downhill in Manual mode, you can +/- to get to the correct gear, so you’re not riding the brakes. Ride the brakes to much, they get hot, and then they don’t work as well if at all. That’s the reason there are run away truck ramps in the mountains. The best option coming down a hill, is to avoid going to fast and having to struggle to get a handle on your speed.

[TitanMike]

Originally Posted by jjuscg

BUT, I was trying to "protect" my engine from going over 4,000 RPM in an apparently mistaken opinion that this would be harmful!



I have a new technique to try next time I tackle one of those long steep grades!! Thanks for the education. That's why I keep in touch with this forum.

If you have a tach, note where the scale is marked in yellow and then red. On my truck 5800 is "yellow" and 6100 is "red".

I frequently climb long, steep, grades with my truck in 3rd gear (first reduction gear in the tran. with 4 direct and 5 OD) and the tach showing 4500-5000 RPM. After a while you'll find a sweet spot when climbing the "big hills" where the engine sounds very happy. You'll feel some throttle response if you press on it gaining some more speed even though it's faster than you need to go. Get the engine humming and if it's noise is too much just turn the radio up.

Take a tip from truck drivers and get to the speed you expect to climb the hill at and into a gear low enough, soon enough. That way you are only maintaining speed rather than downshifting and expecting to speed up. Maintaining takes less HP/Torque than trying to accelerate up a grade.

[BigRockr]

[QUOTE=Kimber45;1964898]you have a camper with a dry weight of 6500 and a truck rated to tow almost 12 and you are worried? the number guys/weight police guys are going to welcome you to the fold.

Definitely! Facts are bad. Anecdotes are good. I used to pull an aircraft carrier with my Datsun King Cab. See ? I told you a story. You are good to go!

[charlie43]

Originally Posted by hub092593

I must admit I didn't perform enough research and listened to the salesman's advice when I purchased our first truck. We are towing a 2015 Forest River 2703WS travel trailer with a 1/2 ton truck using weight distribution and sway control. On flat ground I don't have any towing issues, however, going up hills, the truck seems to struggle (at times impossible to go 55mph). We plan to purchase a 3/4 ton tow vehicle, however, I am not sure if a gas powered truck will provide the needed oomph up hills. I know a diesel engine would, however, based on my driving habits (less than 10K/year) and cost to purchase/maintain diesel, I don't believe that is the correct choice for us.

In addition and correct me if I am wrong, torque plays a big role in towing uphill. When reviewing the manufacturer towing guides, I am not really seeing much of a difference in torque from what I currently own and the 3/4 ton gas powered trucks. With that being said, other than the additional cargo and towing capacities, will a new tow vehicle resolve our concern?

Comments from folks with a similar sized trailer and their towing experiences would be appreciated too?

Tow Vehicle
2015 Sierra 1500 SLT
4x4/short bed
6.2L V8 Gas
GVWR: 7600
Payload Capacity: 1924
Towing Capacity: 11800
GCVWR: 17700
Axle Ratio: 3.42
Torque: 460 lb-ft @ 4100 rpm
Horsepower: 420 @ 5600 rpm
Tongue Weight: 800 lb (1200 with weight distribution system)

Travel Trailer
Forest River 2703WS
Dry Weight: 6550
Cargo Capacity: 1099
Hitch Weight: 734 (excluding front end cargo)

I don't have to much trouble. Same truck but newer. Heavier trailer. 3:23 gears with 33/12.50/20 tires. Corrected end ratio probably near 3:00. 10 speed tranny must help offset the poor gearing some.

[hicksie]

So long as you keep a few hundred RPM under the red line on your tachometer you shouldn't have to worry. As the engine will be under a load it's when there is no load that you can damage the engine

[rsdata]

Do you think manual mode will help with my concern?

Your tranny computer is pretty smart... let it do the work, for get the Manual Mode... When you approach a tough looking hill, put your foot down before you need it and gain some speed towing up that hill...

[capt104]

I'm towing a Coachmen 321fedsle with a 2016 F 150 3.5 EcoBoost and 355 gears and have no problem at all. My T/T is lightly loaded and comes in at 8600#. T/T is 37' over all. Enjoy the journey. You must be climbing some whopper hills!

[natedawg]

I had a 2015 silverado with the same engine/gearing/transmission. Similar weights on the camper. No issue towing in NC mountains. The huge grades are going to slow you down some, but that is even an unloaded vehicle. Sounds like the only issue I see here is foot to pedal. Keep your foot in it and run the hills. 70-75 downhill helps going back up. It is going to turn 3500 or more, but she will go.
My torque converter bit the dust at about 13k miles, but that is a manufacture defect. Google it. Guy I work with had his tranny replaced under warranty at 20k and has never towed or loaded the truck...

With all that said, I took mine in, had the torque converter diagnosed, did some google work, and traded it in the next day. 2016 2500 silverado with the duramax. Absolutely no comparison. Upgraded to a 5th wheel shortly after.

Happy camping.

[D W]

Originally Posted by Crusadernoob

Turn that son of a gun up to 5,000-5,500 rpm like it wants just as you start up the hill, problem solved!

This^^^. You can't run the LS engines like the old Chevy SB's. They are designed to run high rpm's. 4000+ RPM is not beyond the norm. That is where the sweet spot of HP & Torque intersect in an LS engine. Like others have said, the only saving grace with a 3/4 is the 4:10 ratio, but if your cruising along in high gear at say 2100 rpm and attempt to ascend a grade, you're way below the rpm to put some HP and torque to the rear wheels. To quote an old phrase: "You're way behind the power curve".

[JimMorrell]

I pull a 32' Wildwood, empty weight about 7,400 lbs, with a 2011 F-150 4 wd, 5L V8. I live in the Sacramento valley so almost everywhere I go, its up the mountains and then down the mountains.Yes, on the steep grades, I sometimes make 45 mph. Bad? Not to me. I get good mileage with the trailer and great mileage with out it. Would things be better with a diesel? You bet! But for the extra maybe $10,000, I don't mind going a few miles per hour slower once in awhile. Its all up to you.

[jimmoore13]

I see that this is already a long thread with many opinions.
Here's mine.

You have enough truck for your trailer. More than enough. What's missing, perhaps, is patience.

I'd recommend against saddling yourself with a "3/4 ton" truck, especially with a diesel. It would do a better job (as a tow vehicle), perhaps, but at enormous cost. The only justification for a massive truck upgrade (in your case) would be if you have other reasons to do so...say a construction company where you need to tow an equipment trailer.

Two suggestions:
1) Learn to shift manually (assuming you don't). If your truck has a tachometer, use it.

If not, do this quick calibration. Go to a desolate, flat, straight open road. Stop. Then bury the throttle and keep it to the floor until you hit about 70 MPH. Note the speed at each shift point. Consider that to be your "red-line" for each gear.

To the extent possible use your gear selector to manually select lower gears for climbing and descending, and enable your engine to hold a higher RPM for climbing and engine braking on descents.
In my 2006 RAM (with a simple "4-speed with OD" transmission), the 1st-to-2nd shift point is at about 45 MPH. I can comfortably hold almost 40 MPH without coming close to red-line on the tach. 2nd-to-3rd shift is well above 60 MPH. I can easily hold 55 MPH all day in 2nd.
Fuel economy may suffer a bit, but I don't torture the transmission with constant hunting up and down through the gears...and no herky-jerky shifting as the grade changes or I slow for the inevitable turns on the climb then accelerate out of them.
In my opinion, holding the gear on a long grade is much better than an upshift the moment you lift off just a bit followed by forcing a downshift when the speed drops. Passengers, in particular, appreciate the smooth, continuous power delivery without sudden downshifts at large throttle openings.
I confess that I don't know what your shift controller allows in the 6 or 8 speed auto in your truck, but this C&D article suggests it has a manual shift mode.

2) If you're not satisfied with what manual shifting can do to improve your experience in the mountains, you can possibly change the ratios in the differential(s) to "shorter" gear-set. This will hurt your overall fuel economy a little, but it will improve your towing performance somewhat. No doubt, this would be a pricey modification, but far less expensive than a new 2500 series truck...and the additional costs related to keeping a 3/4 ton on the road. In general, EVERYTHING on a 3/4 ton is more expensive and reliability is not as good...a generalization but likely to be true. Certainly true with a diesel.

Max tow rating on my Ram is only 7700 pounds. All up, my rig weighs about 4000 pounds "wet," and I'm toting at least another 1000 pounds of cargo and humans in the truck (extra water, generator, fuel, chairs, two large coolers, boat, misc. stuff, two people and two dogs). As a percentage of towing/carrying capacity, my lugged weight is more or less comparable to yours. I spend a LOT (almost all) of my time in 2nd gear in the CO mountains...just towing the PopUp-Mahal. I'd expect the same relative performance from your Chevy with your rig.

It may be frustrating, but there's nothing wrong with using the 4-way flashers in the steep stuff. They are far cheaper to operate than a 2500 diesel.

[Chuck_S]

That is where the sweet spot of HP & Torque intersect in an LS engine.

Torque and Horsepower intersect exactly at 5252 rpm in every engine regardless of manufacturer, displacement, or type of fuel. Ever since Jim Watt derived the formula back in the late 18th or early 19th Century.

Of course various have their peak torque at different rpms but peak HP and peak torque are different animals.

-- Chuck

[babock]

Originally Posted by Chuck_S

Torque and Horsepower intersect exactly at 5252 rpm in every engine regardless of manufacturer, displacement, or type of fuel. Ever since Jim Watt derived the formula back in the late 18th or early 19th Century.

Of course various have their peak torque at different rpms but peak HP and peak torque are different animals.

-- Chuck

Agree. Amazing how many people don't understand this. HP is just a formula of torque and RPM and graphs always intersect at that point.

[D W]

Originally Posted by Chuck_S

Torque and Horsepower intersect exactly at 5252 rpm in every engine regardless of manufacturer, displacement, or type of fuel. Ever since Jim Watt derived the formula back in the late 18th or early 19th Century.

Of course various have their peak torque at different rpms but peak HP and peak torque are different animals.

-- Chuck

Watt's "theory" was based on the steam engine, not the internal combustion engine. Watt had no knowledge of air/fuel ratio, thermal efficiency, or volumetric efficiency, nor did he contemplate fuel management.

[Mr. Dan]

Originally Posted by rsdata

Your tranny computer is pretty smart... let it do the work, for get the Manual Mode... When you approach a tough looking hill, put your foot down before you need it and gain some speed towing up that hill...

This ^^^^^. No need to mess with manual mode. The Transmission Control Module and its software are smart enough to handle this situation. Use Tow/Haul mode as your contribution to the effort.