Uphill Towing Concern/New Tow Vehicle Advice

[TitanMike]

Originally Posted by ruddie66

I’ve got a 3500 H-D 6.6 diesel, i admit I have no problems with towing up steep grades or coming down in the tow/haul mode. I’m towing a 30 ft. 8500 lb. toy hauler tt. On a slightly different note for all of gassers, when needing to fill up w/fuel, which stations do you go for when towing?? I’m considering trading for a 2500 or 250 gas truck ??

I always try to find a gas station with plenty of room around gas pumps. If not a truck stop I look for one that the pump island traffic is parallel to the building so I dont get trapped.

Some places are so tight one has to back out of the pump island as the turns are more appropriate for mini-cars.

Highway stations are better than those in town.

Make sure when pulling into the gas pumps you'll be able to get out without someone parking in front of you while using the restroom and shopping in the convenience store.

With a diesel vehicle you have the advantage of fueling at the big boys pumps.

[elchilero53]

Originally Posted by ruddie66

I’ve got a 3500 H-D 6.6 diesel, i admit I have no problems with towing up steep grades or coming down in the tow/haul mode. I’m towing a 30 ft. 8500 lb. toy hauler tt. On a slightly different note for all of gassers, when needing to fill up w/fuel, which stations do you go for when towing?? I’m considering trading for a 2500 or 250 gas truck ??

We usually hit a Flying J/Pilot. Most Flying J's have a special set of RV pumps away from the main lanes that are easy in/easy out. That or I take the outer-most pumps on the main lanes. I don't have any issues, and neither do larger rigs that follow me in. I stick with truck stops as they are set up with large parking lots that make maneuvering much easier.

[JW Fulford]

Have you changed the tire size? Upgrading the factory size tires with
larger tires can have a big impact on tow vehicles, especially gas trucks. This can be mostly offset set lower gears.

[Dirt Sifter]

When looking for a GAS station, make sure to look up before you pull in. There's more than one way to get stuck, usually in non-freeway stations. Newer stations are usually better regardless of brand.

[Hclarkx]

Originally Posted by CaptnJohn

It is NOT hp ~~ torque makes the difference. My truck has only 440 hp but nearly 900 ft # of torque. She pulls 14,000# at 1400 rpm on flat and 1900 rpm up hills all while doing 68 mph and getting 12.5 mpg.

Sorry, simply not true. Go back to your high school physics. It takes power to do work. I.e., to pull a wheeled mass up an incline. You can develop the necessary power with lower torque and higher RPM (gas) or higher torque and lower RPM (diesel). Either way 400 hp is 400 hp and does the same work.

This is not to say there aren't some advantages to diesel on an equal hp basis. For instance, a turbo diesel will do better at higher altitude (thinner air) if the turbo has the extra pumping capacity to do so. If you are squeamish about your gas motor spinning at 5000 RPM on a long tough pull, you may be better off with a diesel. If you drive 50K miles per year, you might be better off with a diesel. Etc.

[Hclarkx]

Originally Posted by ruddie66

I’ve got a 3500 H-D 6.6 diesel, i admit I have no problems with towing up steep grades or coming down in the tow/haul mode. I’m towing a 30 ft. 8500 lb. toy hauler tt. On a slightly different note for all of gassers, when needing to fill up w/fuel, which stations do you go for when towing?? I’m considering trading for a 2500 or 250 gas truck ??

We use Tier 1 gas stations as often as possible. That should keep the engine clean regardless of brand. States monitor octane so there should be no difference there. We've never had a problem with Tier 1 gas.

[Hclarkx]

Originally Posted by hub092593

I must admit I didn't perform enough research and listened to the salesman's advice when I purchased our first truck. We are towing a 2015 Forest River 2703WS travel trailer with a 1/2 ton truck using weight distribution and sway control. On flat ground I don't have any towing issues, however, going up hills, the truck seems to struggle (at times impossible to go 55mph). We plan to purchase a 3/4 ton tow vehicle, however, I am not sure if a gas powered truck will provide the needed oomph up hills. I know a diesel engine would, however, based on my driving habits (less than 10K/year) and cost to purchase/maintain diesel, I don't believe that is the correct choice for us.

You do need torque, of course, but power gets you up the hills. Power is the product of RPM and torque so you can climb with more torque and less RPM (diesel) or less torque and more RPM (gas). My 6.0L 2015 2500 HD pulls my 9000# 5'er up grades all over the western US. Rarely at 55 and sometimes only 35 on the tough ones (9% or more). It will do more but I prefer to keep the RPM under 4K when I can. My DW is bothered less by RPM and had it set on 5,000 RPM for 20 minutes climbing a pass on I-70 into Denver from the west at 50mph recently.



For sure, if you upgrade to a 3/4 ton and change nothing (same gearing, same motor, etc.) you will take a step back in hill climbing capability. The reason is weight. The 3/4 ton (gas) will likely be more than 1000# heavier than the 1500. With the same motor and gearing and transmission you will lose ground. If you use the higher payload capability of the 3/4 ton (say, adding a water tank for boondocking), you will lose even more ground due to weight. So, look at the details; weights, gearing, payload, etc. A diesel weights a lot more and so has a lower payload that may limit what you can do (like carrying extra water). But, higher hp may be an option and if you aren't comfortable with high RPM, go diesel. If you are on the fence, make a list of the pros and cons and work out the details (gearing and payload and possible future larger trailer, etc.). It's a complicated formula but I wouldn't trust someone else to make the decision if you are willing to go through the learning process and work through the details.

[JohnD10]

Originally Posted by Hclarkx

For sure, if you upgrade to a 3/4 ton and change nothing (same gearing, same motor, etc.) you will take a step back in hill climbing capability. The reason is weight. The 3/4 ton (gas) will likely be more than 1000# heavier than the 1500. With the same motor and gearing and transmission you will lose ground. If you use the higher payload capability of the 3/4 ton (say, adding a water tank for boondocking), you will lose even more ground due to weight. So, look at the details; weights, gearing, payload, etc. A diesel weights a lot more and so has a lower payload that may limit what you can do (like carrying extra water). But, higher hp may be an option and if you aren't comfortable with high RPM, go diesel. If you are on the fence, make a list of the pros and cons and work out the details (gearing and payload and possible future larger trailer, etc.). It's a complicated formula but I wouldn't trust someone else to make the decision if you are willing to go through the learning process and work through the details.

I think you forgot to mention the downhill part of it...

The 1500's will NOT handle the same load going downhill.

Less brakes...

As for the uphill, the 2500 would still be better as I don't believe you can get the 4.10 rear end in the 1500's.

I could be wrong about that...

My 2015 Chevy 2500HD 6.0L gasser with the 4.10 rear end handled I-70 to and from Denver like my 9800-pound 5'ver wasn't even there...up or down!

I've shed around 350-400 pounds from the 5'ver since I left Denver earlier this year...so even better now!

Ironic in the photo below...note the F150 pulling a utility trailer with the hood up and antifreeze on the ground under it in the background...not planned, just happened that way!

[Chuck_S]

Power is nothing more than torque times revs. And it's torque at the rear wheels that counts and this is where the gearbox and differential come into play. Both of these are torque multipliers. The transmission will automatically shift down to increase the torque at the rear wheels as needed. And more torque results in more power. Hopefully you don't run out of revs.

If your engine and gearbox won't supply the torque/power to the drive wheels a lower geared differential will help. A 3.73 ratio will supply about 11% more torque to the rear wheels than a 3.31. You'll run out of revs sooner with the 3.73.

Real cure is a more powerful engine.

-- Chuck

[Kebees4]

My 1500 ram has 392 gears with the 8 speed. It rarely drops below 6th gear and rpm never been over 4500. This was coming home to ohio from Florida going thru mountains in va and wv. Trans temp went up 20 degrees and engine was up 12 degrees. I set cruise at 63 mph thru the mountains. To be honest it did better than I expected. Overall mpg for entire trip was 11 mpg.

[Hclarkx]

Originally Posted by JohnD10

I think you forgot to mention the downhill part of it...

The 1500's will NOT handle the same load going downhill.

Less brakes...

As for the uphill, the 2500 would still be better as I don't believe you can get the 4.10 rear end in the 1500's.

I could be wrong about that...

My 2015 Chevy 2500HD 6.0L gasser with the 4.10 rear end handled I-70 to and from Denver like my 9800-pound 5'ver wasn't even there...up or down!

I've shed around 350-400 pounds from the 5'ver since I left Denver earlier this year...so even better now!

Ironic in the photo below...note the F150 pulling a utility trailer with the hood up and antifreeze on the ground under it in the background...not planned, just happened that way!

You are absolutely correct. Though I was just pointing out some example issues to be considered, downhill should always be mentioned because it can be a killer (or deal killer if you know before buying).

I've never pulled with a 1500 so maybe I take my 15 2500 HD for granted, but even though the RV salesman told me the 5er I bought was designed for a 1500 and could be pulled by a 1500, he was dead wrong on the second part. It was designed indeed designed for a 1500 (I had to raise it 3 inches at the axles to make it near level behind my 2500 HD), but only a fool would do so. I quickly figured out that a 1500 would have to be max tow and max payload and would then be at 100% of ratings to tow even this ultra lite 5er. Hence I went 2500. The crew is roomy, has a 2668# payload (ymmv), and a lot of tow margin over my max 9000# 5er. BTW, the salesman promised 3000# payload but the sticker says 2668#. Still, I only get close to that when I'm loaded up for a few weeks deep in the woods. And I don't notice the extra weight when that happens.

Back to the downhill. Yes, the brakes on a 2500 HD are huge and if you are going to tackle Western US mountains, pulling something that weighs 50% more than the truck alone, you want more margin there than in pulling. I wouldn't pull anything over about 6000# with a 1500 pickup.

And I love my engine braking. That's not just a diesel thing. I used it a lot in the Bighorn Mtns. See image below. I only had to touch the breaks a few times on that 10 mile 10% downgrade.

When you go onto a bridge with a very uneven approach, even a 2500 can be tossed into the air a bit. I hit one where I think having a 2500 saved me.

PS: Yes, my DW was surely holding more than 55 on that 5K RPM pull up I-70 west of Denver (I slept through most of it). She likes to stay with traffic. I wasn't worried, I know the Chevy small block can take it.