Using an Exhaust Brake

[Mikolow]

And I realize most of you are Dodge folks but from the Ford side, my F-250 doesn't automatically down-shift as often going down hills if the exhaust brake is on. If not on, it'll down-shift from 6 to as far as 3 which really makes the RPM climb! With it on, it may drop to 5.

[IchLiebeBier]

Well, since I accidentally took this thread off on a tangent, I'll just say this. I'm not a mechanic, and I don't have the wherewithall to argue this point.

All I know is my experience, and that's what I'm sticking with.

[ESDSKeith]

I have to switch mine on. First setting is on and then hit it again it’s on automatic. When In the on position it works as soon as I take foot off of accelerator. When I turn truck off it is off......unless I have a trailer connected it will remember the setting I had it on until I unplug the trailer wire harness. I like that feature. 2017 2500 Ram

[Jim34RL]

Originally Posted by IchLiebeBier

I'm gonna have to disagree with you on that one.

I can visibly watch the difference in EGR temps I monitor for shutdown after pushing the EB off.

The reason I say it helps for regen is because it keeps the temps up, which helps burn off the soot. That's my take on it.

Ok, You need to understand what you are monitoring via the ECM. Are you looking at the gauge display on your truck or via an Edge insight CST2 monitor?

What you are monitoring is not the actual EGT temps that I and maybe Diesel Drax monitor with an EGT gauge and probe.

I drilled a hole in my exhaust manifold to install a probe that provides the EGT's on my truck to my gauge. These are actual EGT's that most older diesel folks discuss. You will never see the temp difference if the exhaust brake is on or off with my EGT set-up.

Now starting with the 2013.5 there has been a design improvement monitoring serval different temps that are displayed on the display or Edge Insight ; they are:
EGT1 - DOC inlet
EGT2 - DOC outlet
EGT3 - DPF outlet
EGT4 - SCR midbed
EGT5 SCR outlet

None of these are true EGT's temps that I and Diesel Drax are/have monitored on our 2007.5 and 2008 trucks. So, yes you maybe seeing something different. You need to understand this when you are discussing EGT's, we all see them differently depending on what year trucks we have.

Hope this helps?

[IchLiebeBier]

Originally Posted by Jim34RL

Ok, You need to understand what you are monitoring via the ECM. Are you looking at the gauge display on your truck or via an Edge insight CST2 monitor?

What you are monitoring is not the actual EGT temps that I and maybe Diesel Drax monitor with an EGT gauge and probe.

I drilled a hole in my exhaust manifold to install a probe that provides the EGT's on my truck to my gauge. These are actual EGT's that most older diesel folks discuss. You will never see the temp difference if the exhaust brake is on or off with my EGT set-up.

Now starting with the 2013.5 there has been a design improvement monitoring serval different temps that are displayed on the display or Edge Insight ; they are:
EGT1 - DOC inlet
EGT2 - DOC outlet
EGT3 - DPF outlet
EGT4 - SCR midbed
EGT5 SCR outlet

None of these are true EGT's temps that I and Diesel Drax are/have monitored on our 2007.5 and 2008 trucks. So, yes you maybe seeing something different. You need to understand this when you are discussing EGT's, we all see them differently depending on what year trucks we have.

Hope this helps?

I understand it well enough. I am monitoring the EGT1 location using an Edge Insight. Since it's post turbo, my temps will fall by turning off the EB. Since you're pre-turbo, your temps probably won't.

So you guys are monitoring something that won't be affected by EB, on and older truck, and I'm monitoring something that is. But there continues to be an argument that it can't possibly be affected. I may not be a diesel mechanic with X number of years, but I read the manual. And my manual says I was right on my first two points.

Maybe it won't affect regen, I don't know. But maybe the consensus that it doesn't is based on folks monitoring pre-turbo temps. But I do know that burning off the soot is based on getting the temp high enough.

Again, I don't run it because of the regen. I'm just hoping it's a happy by-product.

[Vikes79]

I only use my EB when needed for towing...and even then I only use it when the down hill speeds are out of hand as it really kills the overall mpg towing as the next hill is no longer run up a bit and the tranny is forced to dump a gear every hill.

[mattdebruyn]

Originally Posted by branden.peterson

I'm not sure of any cons, but I use mine all the time when not towing.

Use them all the time. Watch rpm though.

[DieselDrax]

Originally Posted by IchLiebeBier

I understand it well enough. I am monitoring the EGT1 location using an Edge Insight. Since it's post turbo, my temps will fall by turning off the EB. Since you're pre-turbo, your temps probably won't.



So you guys are monitoring something that won't be affected by EB, on and older truck, and I'm monitoring something that is. But there continues to be an argument that it can't possibly be affected. I may not be a diesel mechanic with X number of years, but I read the manual. And my manual says I was right on my first two points.



Maybe it won't affect regen, I don't know. But maybe the consensus that it doesn't is based on folks monitoring pre-turbo temps. But I do know that burning off the soot is based on getting the temp high enough.



Again, I don't run it because of the regen. I'm just hoping it's a happy by-product.

So let’s clear something up. Were you saying EGR temps when you meant EGT? Because if so you made that slip multiple times which just added to why your posts weren’t making sense. Based on the above it now sounds like you were talking about post-turbo EGTs and not EGR temps but for some reason you didn’t catch you slip up. On the other hand, some of your posts did acknowledge what EGR would be doing and implying higher EGR temps would help clean soot out of the engine? (Not happening because the EGR cooler is there to ensure cooler EGR gasses to reduce cylinder temps and reduce NOx)

Also, the 6.7 hasn’t really changed a whole lot in terms of operation. Just because ours are/were older doesn’t mean the observations are going to be different, incorrect, or invalid compared to yours when using the same digital gauges.

The EB really doesn’t do anything for regen. It just doesn’t. You can even search or ask over on the Cummins forums because you’re not the first to wonder about the impact of the EB on regens.

You also said “since it’s post-turbo my EGTs will drop with the EB off.” That doesn’t make any sense whatsoever. The EB restricting exhaust flow downstream will lower EGTs because there’s less exhaust flow downstream.

It just sounds like you’re a bit confused and making assumptions without really understanding the mechanics. Just trying to decipher what you’re saying and help you get a better understanding of how it all works.

[Jim34RL]

Originally Posted by IchLiebeBier

I understand it well enough. I am monitoring the EGT1 location using an Edge Insight. Since it's post turbo, my temps will fall by turning off the EB. Since you're pre-turbo, your temps probably won't.

So you guys are monitoring something that won't be affected by EB, on and older truck, and I'm monitoring something that is. But there continues to be an argument that it can't possibly be affected. I may not be a diesel mechanic with X number of years, but I read the manual. And my manual says I was right on my first two points.

Maybe it won't affect regen, I don't know. But maybe the consensus that it doesn't is based on folks monitoring pre-turbo temps. But I do know that burning off the soot is based on getting the temp high enough.

Again, I don't run it because of the regen. I'm just hoping it's a happy by-product.

I never said you were incorrect on the first two points!

It is the third point that you state the Exhaust Brake feature helps in regen process.

For all trucks built between 2007.5 and 2012 with the 6.7L Cummins engine, these trucks had 3 main components which included the DPF for emission control. The design of this system on these trucks used a lot of regeneration of the DPF to keep the DPF from being clogged by soot. Diesel fuel is used with an additional fuel injection of fuel into the exhaust system to raise the exhaust temps to allow the captured diesel particulates to be burned off (soot). The Exhaust Brake feature does not/can not effect the additional fuel injection into the exhaust system that raised the exhaust system temps.

This strategy was changed for the 2013.5 and up trucks with the introduction of DEF.

[DieselDrax]

Originally Posted by Jim34RL

I never said you were incorrect on the first two points!



It is the third point that you state the Exhaust Brake feature helps in regen process.



For all trucks built between 2007.5 and 2012 with the 6.7L Cummins engine, these trucks had 3 main components which included the DPF for emission control. The design of this system on these trucks used a lot of regeneration of the DPF to keep the DPF from being clogged by soot. Diesel fuel is used with an additional fuel injection of fuel into the exhaust system to raise the exhaust temps to allow the captured diesel particulates to be burned off (soot). The Exhaust Brake feature does not/can not effect the additional fuel injection into the exhaust system that raised the exhaust system temps.



This strategy was changed for the 2013.5 and up trucks with the introduction of DEF.

There seems to be some confusion about the role DEF plays. It doesn’t have anything to do with the regen process or the DPF. The addition of DEF helps reduce NOx emissions and also reduces the need for as much EGR use which is better for the engine’s health and fuel economy. The regen strategy of a late injection to increase EGTs via the DOC and burn soot to ash in the DPF is the same.

[IchLiebeBier]

Quite right. I said EGR by accident. I do not monitor EGR temp. I monitor EGT so I know when to shut it down to protect the turbo. I was at work listening to this phone con staff meeting that was boring as all get out. I didn't realize I had said EGR and that I stuck to it. So my bad and sorry for the confusion.

But before you start off on the whole, "EGT1 is not as accurate as pre-turbo"...I know. But I don't want to install a probe. I read the manual, and idled the truck after use for the time it said to do it. Once that time had elapsed, I read the EGT on the Insight. So I shut down when that temp gets under 400. I shoot for 350, but on hot days it won't get down to it. So I try to get at least to 375, but as long as it's under 400 I'm happy.

But I still do not agree with anyone that says the EB doesn't affect the EGT, at least not at EGT1 where I monitor it. I see it EVERY DAY.

If you don't believe me, fine. I've said it multiple times and gave you the reasons for my conclusions. Accept it or don't.

[ard58]

But I still do not agree with anyone that says the EB doesn't affect the EGT, at least not at EGT1 where I monitor it. I see it EVERY DAY.

If you don't believe me, fine. I've said it multiple times and gave you the reasons for my conclusions. Accept it or don't

OK. EB very well could affect EGT as you've stated, but it does not affect EGR temps. At least not on the heavy duty engines.

[IchLiebeBier]

Originally Posted by ard58

But I still do not agree with anyone that says the EB doesn't affect the EGT, at least not at EGT1 where I monitor it. I see it EVERY DAY.

If you don't believe me, fine. I've said it multiple times and gave you the reasons for my conclusions. Accept it or don't

OK. EB very well could affect EGT as you've stated, but it does not affect EGR temps. At least not on the heavy duty engines.

Concur. Disregard anything I said about EGR. It was bad proofreading on my part.

That's why I was so adamant about defending it. In my mind, I knew I was talking about EGT. D'oh.

[ard58]

Originally Posted by IchLiebeBier

Concur. Disregard anything I said about EGR. It was bad proofreading on my part.

That's why I was so adamant about defending it. In my mind, I knew I was talking about EGT. D'oh.

I absolutely hate acronyms. I deal with them every day. OBTW. The ones on this site are not what I'm referring to. It's work related.

[Jake733]

Not sure about this; surely brake pads are cheaper than an engine/gearbox?

[DieselDrax]

Originally Posted by Jake733

Not sure about this; surely brake pads are cheaper than an engine/gearbox?

Not sure why you think an exhaust brake causes engine or transmission wear. It doesn’t.

[Jim34RL]

Originally Posted by Jake733

Not sure about this; surely brake pads are cheaper than an engine/gearbox?

Really! Diesel engines since the thirties have used exhaust brakes when L. Cummins installed one on one of his engines. This was done to help to provide braking when a Diesel engine truck was driven down hill.

VGT turbos that provides the exhaust braking function on the newer trucks will not harm the truck at all.

[Whalenss]

The exhaust brake is on all the time on the Ram 5500 for my Isata 5. Helps with slowing down and stopping.

[MOODMAN]

This is kinda related...but I have an 03 3500 RAM that does not have EB. Been thinking of installing an after-market EB to give me more braking power going down hill with a load.

Of course, the after market ones don't have to deal with DEF or regen. They are simple designs that just in effect block the exhaust.

So, can someone tell me what kind of an effect it will have in the real world? For example, would I expect that going down a grade I will feel substantial braking power? Also, I wonder if there will be any extra wear on my transmission since more of a negative load will be put on it with an EB.

Thanks.

[Jim34RL]

Originally Posted by MOODMAN

This is kinda related...but I have an 03 3500 RAM that does not have EB. Been thinking of installing an after-market EB to give me more braking power going down hill with a load.

Of course, the after market ones don't have to deal with DEF or regen. They are simple designs that just in effect block the exhaust.

So, can someone tell me what kind of an effect it will have in the real world? For example, would I expect that going down a grade I will feel substantial braking power? Also, I wonder if there will be any extra wear on my transmission since more of a negative load will be put on it with an EB.

Thanks.

Do you have a manual transmission or auto in your year of truck? Cummins only recommends a Jake brake ( exhaust ) being used on Cummins diesel an a manual transmission for a 2003 truck.

For the 2004.5 and up trucks either a manual or automatic can be used.

I would search Exhaust brakes for a 2003 Dodge truck equipped with a Cummins engine, for further information. There is an manual out on the internet for you to research.