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Old 06-20-2015, 02:01 PM   #1
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Weight your Rig You maybe Surprized

When someone says weight you truck is the only sure way to find out if you are over or not believe him or her. The number put out by truck manufactures and trailer manufactures are suspect.

On paper my Primetime 315RST has pin dry weight of 1953 and dry trailer weight of 9920 lbs and trailer CCC of 2427lbs.

I own a SRW Ford F350 Diesel 4WD 6.5 bed with the yellow tag says 3744 cargo weight.

On paper that gives me a 1791 lbs margin to load my trailer and truck.

So off to the scales and news was not what I expected. My rear axle weight went to 6200 lbs (axle rated at 7180 lbs) and gross truck weight went to 11,200 lbs. Total trailer weight was 11,420 lbs, which is at the top end of 25% rule of thumb for pin weights. I did check the box that put 11,500 GVWR on my title instead of the 10,000lbs of standard F350 or I would have been legally over weight by 1040 lbs instead of 480 lbs CCC still available. .

Dropped the 5th wheel and weight just the truck and got Front Axle 4740 – Rear Axle 3400 for a total of 8220 subtract that from my Gross Vehicle Weight Rating (the max legal weight) and you get a CCC of 3280. That is long ways from the 4190 Ford claims in their brochure and the 3744 on my yellow tag in the truck.

The dealer tried to tell me add this or that would increase the CCC of truck but that just isn’t true. The only way to legally increase your CCC is to increase the GVWR that is listed on your truck title or make the truck lighter (period). Adding options that add additional weight to the truck lowers your CCC. The big advantage of F350 over a F250 is the ability to check a box and get an 11,500 GVWR list on the truck title instead of 10,000 GVWR.

Being a few hundred pounds over GVWR are wheels going to fly or is frame going to break or the axle snap in half– probably not but at some unknown weight that the truck will become unstable and could causes something to fail prematurely. My issue was more legal, I fund a lot of my retirement income and if I was in an accident and smart lawyer discovered I was over weight and sue me it could have big negative affect on my retirement years. There are lawyers that specialize in over weight RV accidents do Google search for “lawyers accidents over weight RVs” and see pages of lawyers willing to take the case to court.
Dennis

PS You figure you CCC by weighing you truck and adding the front axle and rear axle weight together and subtracting it from the GVWR list on your title or on the doors post GVWR sticker. Most new F250 are 10,000lbs and most F350 are between 10,000 and 11,500lbs. The yellow sticker shows the CCC for the day it left the factory and options added to your truck since then lower you CCC.
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Old 06-20-2015, 02:36 PM   #2
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Good advice. You see a lot of numbers getting thrown around and folks making purchase decisions based on those published numbers, but in reality, it's really just a game of gross guesstimation.

As a rule of thumb, I generally try to stay 20% under gross on all published weights. It's practically 'fact' that they lie.

Getting your numbers from the actual vehicles yellow stickers will be entirely more accurate, but even then you need to leave in a margin of safety. I think most folks get a pretty good eye opener when they actually get to the scales.

It's a "must do"!
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Old 06-20-2015, 02:50 PM   #3
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Know what ours weighs......... just under 21K combined


Why does everyone think or into the myth that dry weight of a camper is important or means something.... The gross weight means a whole lot more.

It is even advertised Dry weight is average and without options. Yellow sticker dry weight is when it leaves the factory usually without propane or a battery. Even Forest Rivers Palomino ads say yellow sticker dry weight is without those things and dealer added options............ That is even before we add our "stuff".

Our advertised dry weight was 9200, yellow sticker 9600, actual with our gear approx 13,500. If I went by dry weight I could have some serious issues. The trailer is still 1000 lbs under gross. Combined Under 21K.

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Old 06-20-2015, 03:56 PM   #4
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Why does everyone think or into the myth that dry weight of a camper is important or means something.... The gross weight means a whole lot more.
It's no myth. It's important because it gives you a baseline comparison against other makes and models during the shopping process and get's you "in the ballpark" when considering TV capabilities. Actual shipping weights of specific units are going to vary by a couple hundred pounds, but it's kind of a drop in the bucket when your considering between dry weights of an 8k rig and a 10k rig with a TV that has a max tow of 11k.

You probably wouldn't waste your time getting yellow tag info off the 10k rigs, right.
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Old 06-20-2015, 04:03 PM   #5
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It's no myth. It's important because it gives you a baseline comparison against other makes and models during the shopping process and get's you "in the ballpark" when considering TV capabilities. Actual shipping weights of specific units are going to vary by a couple hundred pounds, but it's kind of a drop in the bucket when your considering between dry weights of an 8k rig and a 10k rig with a TV that has a max tow of 11k.

You probably wouldn't waste your time getting yellow tag info off the 10k rigs, right.
Sorry but no it does not give anything but what it started at........ During the shopping process I want to know gross not empty from the factory........... My 14,500 gross weight of the trailer means more to me than where it started at 9200. I want to know If my truck can pull it loaded at 14500 not if if it can pull it empty at 9200...... Dry weight is not that important.


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Old 06-20-2015, 07:09 PM   #6
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Dry weight is not that important.
What I WILL be towing (dry weight + reasonable cargo allowance), to me anyway, is more important than sizing my TV to match what I am theoretically capable of carrying. Not that gross max isn't important.

As an example: My rig is 3800lbs dry. Cargo capacity is 3500lbs. If I ignore dry weight I am calculating for 7300lbs. IF my TV had a 7000lbs max tow rating then I would either need to look for another TT or upgrade my TV. Realistically, there is no way on God's green earth I am going to be packing 3500lbs of cargo in my trailer. So dry + 2000lbs (very generous allowance) I'm at 5800lbs and WELL within my TV's 7000lb rating.

ALL weights and ratings should be considered carefully and are equally important.

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Old 06-20-2015, 09:09 PM   #7
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What I WILL be towing (dry weight + reasonable cargo allowance), to me anyway, is more important than sizing my TV to match what I am theoretically capable of carrying. Not that gross max isn't important.

As an example: My rig is 3800lbs dry. Cargo capacity is 3500lbs. If I ignore dry weight I am calculating for 7300lbs. IF my TV had a 7000lbs max tow rating then I would either need to look for another TT or upgrade my TV. Realistically, there is no way on God's green earth I am going to be packing 3500lbs of cargo in my trailer. So dry + 2000lbs (very generous allowance) I'm at 5800lbs and WELL within my TV's 7000lb rating.

ALL weights and ratings should be considered carefully and are equally important.



Dry weight is only that low once. It gives buyers a false sense of what the trailer will weigh loaded. Personally that's why I feel so many rigs are overloaded because the owners are lured into believing that the dry weight is close to actual weight. Of course the only true important weights are the gross weight that you shouldn't go over & the weight that the scale gives you when you weight it......... Most campers will not allow that much extra capacity for stuff. But our case is a little different & the "gear" can vary greatly but it is usually 3500 lbs. But it can be under 2500 lbs.

I can't remember any of the camper we had in the past giving dry weights. But that was many years back. I know there were no "yellow stickers".

Enjoy !!!!

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Old 06-20-2015, 11:23 PM   #8
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I can't remember any of the camper we had in the past giving dry weights. But that was many years back. I know there were no "yellow stickers".
They did have white factory weight stickers, that were usually on the inside of a cabinet door.
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Old 06-21-2015, 03:11 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by CWSWine View Post
When someone says weight you truck is the only sure way to find out if you are over or not believe him or her. The number put out by truck manufactures and trailer manufactures are suspect.
Excellent advice! I suspect many RVing folk out there can relate to your revelations. And, if I may, I'm thinking that you've been thinking that... should have bought a dually.

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Old 06-21-2015, 04:43 AM   #10
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They did have white factory weight stickers, that were usually on the inside of a cabinet door.

I'm sure they did. I am not sure when they started or what brands started it. I know our 1973 Terry and our 1988 Terry did not have the stickers.

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Old 06-21-2015, 05:08 AM   #11
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This question is to the OP. and something to think about. In Virginia you have to register the trailer (camper) by what it can haul. "Gross Weight", I do not know about other states. If there was an accident and no scale weight would not the courts go by what the trailer is registered for or its gross weight and if the truck is capable of 7000 lbs and the gross weight of the trailer was 9000 lbs. Is not the owner in deep poo poo...............

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Old 06-21-2015, 06:27 AM   #12
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More truck is always better than not enough truck.
Goes back to what I constantly read on threads; I'm buying a TT and it weighs ????# I am looking at the F150 or F250 SRW.
I say why cause you will be over loaded. Get a 1 Ton dually diesel and you will be far ahead of the game but even with a new dually diesel you better pick the right tranny and axle ratio or you will still be overloaded. Truck manufacturer's are putting 3.42 axle ratio and the likes so they can get better mileage. You should watch out for that and choose your axle to what it should be for what you are towing now and what you might in the future.
There is no such thing as to much truck so I never understood why someone would buy a 1/2 or 3/4 ton truck to tow such heavy loads just because the dealer says it will. Pulling a RV with a tow truck at max or more will be dangerous and cut the life of your TV significantly. Same for RV's towing them at or over the gross weight. People wonder why their tires blow up when they drive 65 mph overloaded and inflated properly. I also think people don't count all accessories in the RV including propane weight, water load, battery, generator load ext.... Take for example my 5er is 42' yellow stick 12,962# empty, add my accessories and I'm at 17,250# with a GVWR of 18k so ok I'm good there. Now my truck 2015 Ram 3500 DRW 4x4 long bed 6.7L diesel with 3.73 axle and a Aisin tranny, GVWR 14,000# GCWR 32,300#, max trailer weight 23,510#, max pay load 5680# truck empty 8700# so plenty of truck.
Do us all a favor and tow within the specs. it could save your life and mine and you will feel more comfortable towing also. My truck doesn't even slow down for hills but I still tow my big 5er at 60 mph in the slow lane because I'm on vacation going camping.
Happy Camping and think before you tow your TT, 5er, or MH and ask why you put what you did in your RV are you going to use it or not. If not then leave it home.
And don't foreget in most all states if your TV GVWR added to your RV's GVWR is over 26,000# then a Class A licence is required but not a CDL class A unless your hauling for business use.
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Old 06-21-2015, 07:01 AM   #13
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Weighing is important! Need a baseline to know where you are coming from. I have weighed every set-up I have and weighed them fully loaded during a trip as well. The weight can creep up to the maximum pretty quickly and knowing where you are is important.

I towed with a F150 5.4 Screw, worked with the TT but near limits, bought a new Ecoboost F 150 Screw with all towing gear and this worked just fine well within limits. Along came the fifth wheel still within most posted limits on weight and towing capacity but. I my experience and where we are planning travelling not suitable. Bought the F 250 Super Duty with Power Stroke Diesel and have the extra stability, power and braking capacity I did not have with the F 150.
For my situation the F 250 meets and exceeds the need, we will upgrade but 90% of where we camp is forested parks and a long 42 ft trailer just won't work. We are looking at a 37 ft Fiver that will have pin weight capabilities of the CCC of the truck.I won't have any other problem with towing other than this. We are looking at a Columbus as a matter of fact.

Many people can not afford a specialized TV that is a dually 1 ton with length no parking spot, parking garage or even driveway can handle. Using a F 150 wisely and within limits suits many most people. A weekend warrior or taking a couple weeks a year at the local lake can bet served just fine by a F 150 or 1500 series truck but affordable and still used as daily driver. Keep the weights in line, put LT tires on the TV, maintain both TT and TV and finally keep speed within safe limits.
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Old 06-21-2015, 09:02 AM   #14
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I am within ratings on everything and my truck and trailer stickers were right on when I bought them. I weighed my truck on the way home from the dealer when purchased new.

I am 700 lbs under GVWR on truck with 1500 lbs to spare on each axle. Trailer is 300 lbs under GVWR with 7200 lbs on 8000 lbs of axles. Upgraded to E tires on trailer so no problem with weight there.

I am close on GCWR only under by 350 lbs, but my little 5.4L hauls the load admirably. I have 17K miles towing and 82K on the truck now. Will put another 4K towing miles on this summer. Couldn't be happier with my F250/Flagstaff combo after 5 years.


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Old 06-21-2015, 09:16 AM   #15
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This question is to the OP. and something to think about. In Virginia you have to register the trailer (camper) by what it can haul. "Gross Weight", I do not know about other states. If there was an accident and no scale weight would not the courts go by what the trailer is registered for or its gross weight and if the truck is capable of 7000 lbs and the gross weight of the trailer was 9000 lbs. Is not the owner in deep poo poo...............

My state is the same way. You pay set fee for every 1,000 of the gross loaded weight of your RV not dry weight. I'm not lawyer but I bet it would up to you to prove that you were below that rating and if that rating exceeds the GVWR of your truck you could be in trouble. Just a guess and hope I never have to find out but I believe it would be a up hill battle. Good Point!
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Old 06-21-2015, 09:26 AM   #16
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I am 700 lbs under GVWR on truck

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You are a perfect example. If you had diesel instead of the 5.4 you would be at or over your GVWR but according to the tow guide the diesel could pull a much heavier RV then you are pulling. This is what got me into trouble on first RV thinking I purchased enough truck (3/4 ton Diesel) thinking I had upgrade room from Cougar 28SGS (30 foot) RV but found I was already max out.
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Old 06-21-2015, 09:40 AM   #17
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Excellent advice! I suspect many RVing folk out there can relate to your revelations. And, if I may, I'm thinking that you've been thinking that... should have bought a dually.

I have thought about dually but it won't fit in my garage and my HOA doesn't require you to keep it the garage but recommends that you do. So to keep peace I opted for shorter wheelbase truck. Now I have debated that maybe I should of purchase a gasser which would of increased my CCC over 4,000 lbs but I do love my diesel.
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Old 06-21-2015, 10:27 AM   #18
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I think a lot of misconception comes from the tow haul guides; I know I used them incorrectly when I purchased my first 5th wheel. Of coarse using dry weights also contribute to the problem also. I look at the 16,000lbs 5th wheel max tow capacity and thought I was good with a 38 foot RV – boy was I wrong. I had ¾ ton truck with diesel with 2475 payload off the yellow sticker. After installing the hitch, my wife, bed liner, few tools, and me and weighed the truck weight right at 8,000 lbs so now I have a CCC of 2,000 lbs with my 10,000 GVWR. Now I question my decision to put a diesel in ¾ ton truck, that 600 to 800 lbs extra took a lot away from CCC.

Previous RV: Next came a 28 foot trailer Cougar Ultra Light 28SGS (30 Foot) that had dry pin weight of 1410 lbs with dry weight of 7561 lbs with a CCC of 2439 lbs.

When I weight the truck I found that I was only 80 lbs of my MAX GVWR of 10,000 lbs (front axle4780/rear axle 5220) and the dealer telling me that his is ½ ton towable. The 5th wheel weighed 8,700 lbs. loaded and ready to go camping so I had cargo weight left before max out my CCC on the trailer. NO matter what the dealer says the scales is the only way to verify you CCC of you truck and RV

So with a gross 5th wheel weight of 10,000 you could easily exceed the GVWR of ¾ truck with a diesel engine with a CCC of 2,400 lbs. Take away 400lbs of you TV CCC for hitch, people (2 people), fuel and etc leaving 2,000 lbs of CCC. Then 20% to 25% of the 10,000 RV is a pin weight of 2,000 to 2,500 lbs.

I heard all the arguments of why being over your GVWR is OK but I looking at the legal issue and trying say within the legal limits of my TV (GVWR as stated in the TV title) to avoid any kind of legal actions incase of an accident.
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Old 06-21-2015, 10:59 AM   #19
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After weighing my 1 ton diesel truck and finding my yellow sticker on my truck door post 3744 in real life is only 3280 CCC. Using the standard 20% to 25% of 5th wheel weight as pin weight that would mean I would be limited to trailer of 13,000 lbs.

20% of 13,000 = 2,600 pin weight
25% of 13,000 = 3,250 pin weight.

No where near the 16,000 lbs 5th wheel towing limit.
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Old 06-21-2015, 03:36 PM   #20
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I have been reading the threads and I am a little confused.
I have a Prime Time Avenger 23FBS. It has a cargo carrying weight of 2,270 lbs. and a GVWR of 7,668 lbs. and each axel is rated at 3,500 lbs. each.
I tow with a Chevy 2500HD 6.0, 8 ft. bed & 4x4, with 4.10 axel ratio.
The GVWR of 9,200 lbs. with F. tire GAWR of 4200 lbs. and R. tire GAWR of 6,084 lbs.

Combined GVWR of 16,868 lbs.

I have not weighted the truck/trailer. However, when hooked up and on level ground, the trailer and truck show level.

Does it indicate, from fellow campers, I might be overloaded?
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