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Old 08-29-2022, 11:02 AM   #1
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Weights while WD hitch connected

Just ran a set of weights multiple ways:
1. WD hitch connected 8 kinks, also 9 and 10 links to compare weight transfer
2. WD hitch disconnected - for tongue weight
3. Trailer and truck separated on their own weighing plates

Ran a weight calculation spreadsheet and it showed over for the GVWR of the trailer, that was based on independent weight of the trailer and truck. On the 8 link weights, the trailer axles were 200 Lbs under max or GVWR.

Is it correct that if the trailer axle weights show OK while the WD is connected, I'm OK? They are actual weights.


The truck had zero problems for weight limits including cargo.
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Old 08-29-2022, 11:10 AM   #2
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Mfg. data

Side note - MFG data on Apex website did NOT match the trailer sticker. The trailer sticker did not match the Canadian sticker. Axle loads on the trailer sticker did not match GVWR. When I have the trailer again, I intend to pull the axle sticker information and see what the load rating is. My guess is, the axles are rated higher than the Trailer GVWR. So if it is, is it safe to assume the frame is rated the same as the axles? I'm sure I will get a non answer if I ask Forest River/Apex.

Tongue weight on the website was WAY off. It is obviously dry and no added load in the trailer.
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Old 08-29-2022, 11:19 AM   #3
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Can you share weights/spreadsheet? Also, what WD system are you running? (aslo, what's your TV)?

Even with WD, I like the hitchwork to be in spec for ACTUAL weights, not WD'd (simply so true/real values are represented, not calculated ones). Great idea for one pass is to put TT axles on on plate, and hitch/tongue on the other.

Lastly, was the TT setup based on how you tow/camp (eg, water, gear aboard, etc)? Not a big deal, but it's the last question mark in the system...
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Old 08-29-2022, 12:10 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dedobias View Post
Just ran a set of weights multiple ways:
1. WD hitch connected 8 kinks, also 9 and 10 links to compare weight transfer
2. WD hitch disconnected - for tongue weight
3. Trailer and truck separated on their own weighing plates

Ran a weight calculation spreadsheet and it showed over for the GVWR of the trailer, that was based on independent weight of the trailer and truck. On the 8 link weights, the trailer axles were 200 Lbs under max or GVWR.

Is it correct that if the trailer axle weights show OK while the WD is connected, I'm OK? They are actual weights.


The truck had zero problems for weight limits including cargo.
No, that is not OK. The WDH distributes the weight by applying stress to the trailer frame where the chain brackets are connected. Let me ask you this question - does the trailer have separate GVWR numbers for using and not using a Weight Distribution Hitch? No, it does not. My GMC Yukon, as with many vehicles, has two separate tongue weight limits based upon whether or not a WDH is used - the trailer does not.
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Old 08-29-2022, 05:59 PM   #5
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The trailer GVWR is for all of the trailer weight. Tongue plus axle. Seems like you are thinking it is only for axle weight, but your post is confusing to me. When you hook up the WDH the trailer axles should have more weight on them, not less.
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Old 08-29-2022, 06:01 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by lbrjet View Post
The trailer GVWR is for all of the trailer weight. Tongue plus axle. Seems like you are thinking it is only for axle weight, but your post is confusing to me. When you hook up the WDH the trailer axles should have more weight on them, not less.
Very good point! The only thing that I can think of is that the trailer, weighed by itself, would include tongue weight added to axle weight. When weighing the trailer connected with the WDH, the tongue jack would be raised so the trailer axle weight would be the only weight attributed to the trailer, and the tongue weight would show up on both the front and rear tow vehicle axles.
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Old 08-29-2022, 09:20 PM   #7
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When I vgo across the scales with WDH connected I only worry about weight on each axle-----period.

I weigh with my trailer and truck level after adjusting hitch chain links.

Handles well and I know all components, axles and tires, are operating within limits.

To me the rest is all just " noise".
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Old 08-29-2022, 10:16 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by TitanMike View Post
When I vgo across the scales with WDH connected I only worry about weight on each axle-----period.

I weigh with my trailer and truck level after adjusting hitch chain links.

Handles well and I know all components, axles and tires, are operating within limits.

To me the rest is all just " noise".
I 100% agree. But, I would add one, well two things - add together the steer and drive axles and make sure you are not exceeding the GVWR of the tow vehicle. Add the steer, drive, and trailer axles together and make sure you are not exceeding the GCWR of the tow vehicle.
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Old 08-30-2022, 06:21 AM   #9
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My TV is a 1 ton GMC, that's why there are no truck weight issues at all including cargo. Will try to figure out hw to upload the file somewhere. Not sure how.
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Old 08-30-2022, 06:44 AM   #10
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I'll upload the spreadsheet once I clean up the notes

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rhumblefish View Post
Can you share weights/spreadsheet? Also, what WD system are you running? (aslo, what's your TV)?

Even with WD, I like the hitchwork to be in spec for ACTUAL weights, not WD'd (simply so true/real values are represented, not calculated ones). Great idea for one pass is to put TT axles on on plate, and hitch/tongue on the other.

Lastly, was the TT setup based on how you tow/camp (eg, water, gear aboard, etc)? Not a big deal, but it's the last question mark in the system...
I'll upload the spreadsheet to the library once I clean up the notes. The sheet doesn't allow for multiple set up actual weights for the hitch. I'm using a Blue Ox Sway Pro and three links change from 8 to 10 doesn't make a lot of difference. 8 actually shows the best numbers. I'm using actual independent weights of the trailer and truck where I put the front and rear truck axles on two plates and the trailer on another plate completely disconnected and the tongue jack on that plate .

Pictures of the Trailer stickers. The loads for the tires are lower than the GVWR! 7000lbs versus 7600. The Canadian sticker numbers don't match the tire sticker or the website.

When I'm on my own computer and not work computer, I'll put up the stickers on the trailer and truck and upload the cleaned up spreadsheet. The sheet calculates (add or subtracts) some cells from other cells.
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Old 08-30-2022, 06:51 AM   #11
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Side note - I have a wheel weight appointment

Side note - I have a wheel by wheel weight appointment in Goshen IN in early September. They do both the tow vehicle and trailer. By then, I plan on unloading some weight from the trailer from my last run - 5 gallon water bottles and my blackstone which I rarely use that is stored under my bed in front. Probably going to sell the blackstone. With just me and my wife, it's too heavy to haul in an out unless I'm there for a week or more. Like using my traeger ranger more.

I only had 5 gallons of water in both back and gray and about 15 gallons in the fresh tank.

Two electric bikes inside the back at about 130 lbs .

My trailer is a 290 BHS Apex.

I've looked all over for a good spreadsheet with good instructions. The ones that reside on a website to be filled out and then an answer returned are all for evaluating a tow vehicle. NONE do a side by side comparison of different hitch settings and none appear to use ONLY actual weights without any calculations. If anyone can point me to the best spreadsheet, I would greatly appreciate it.
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Old 08-30-2022, 07:39 AM   #12
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Just a note because of what the OP posted.

My Avenger (under the Forest river umbrella) has a GVWR of 7700lbs.

Has 2 axles each rated at 3500lbs. Called the manufacturer and asked they said all good because the last 700lbs is carried by the tongue.

Same with the OEM tires only rated for the axle rating NOT to carry the full 7700lbs

So be careful if your cat scale weight of the trailer is getting near the GVWR you might be over on your axles
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Old 08-30-2022, 10:52 AM   #13
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More info

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike134 View Post
Just a note because of what the OP posted.

My Avenger (under the Forest river umbrella) has a GVWR of 7700lbs.

Has 2 axles each rated at 3500lbs. Called the manufacturer and asked they said all good because the last 700lbs is carried by the tongue.

Same with the OEM tires only rated for the axle rating NOT to carry the full 7700lbs

So be careful if your cat scale weight of the trailer is getting near the GVWR you might be over on your axles

This is what I'll post, still working at the moment....Tire rating 7000 Lbs GVWR trailer 7600 lbs. I have not gotten the axle information to see the axle rating and see if it is a lot more than trailer gvwr.

Tires sticker pressure on the trailer is 65 psi, the same as the load/pressure chart. That equates to 2200 lbs per tire at a ST215/75r14 on the chart. Total per axle 2 tires 4400lbs each axle and 8800 lbs total both axles tire load capability. The trailer sticker shows 3500 lbs per axle (versus 4400 tire rating)- 2 tires or 1750 lbs each (2200 rating). Tires are light loaded if they are evenly loaded. I'll find out the variation when I get each wheel weights. Again, I don't know the frame or axle capacity yet - not sure I can get it.

https://www.goodyearrvtires.com/pdfs/rv_inflation.pdf
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Old 08-30-2022, 11:43 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike134 View Post
Just a note because of what the OP posted.

My Avenger (under the Forest river umbrella) has a GVWR of 7700lbs.

Has 2 axles each rated at 3500lbs. Called the manufacturer and asked they said all good because the last 700lbs is carried by the tongue.

Same with the OEM tires only rated for the axle rating NOT to carry the full 7700lbs

So be careful if your cat scale weight of the trailer is getting near the GVWR you might be over on your axles
It seems many trailers are factory speced with GVWR over what the axle(s) are. My 2019 Wolf Pup 16BHS has a 3500# single axle with a GVWR of 3877#, factory dry tongue weight 377# to be carried by the TV. 3166# factory trailer dry weight. In actuality, tongue weight is 5-600# and the TT axle is under GAWR.
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Old 08-30-2022, 12:48 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by Boomerweps View Post
It seems many trailers are factory speced with GVWR over what the axle(s) are. My 2019 Wolf Pup 16BHS has a 3500# single axle with a GVWR of 3877#, factory dry tongue weight 377# to be carried by the TV. 3166# factory trailer dry weight. In actuality, tongue weight is 5-600# and the TT axle is under GAWR.
That is what I want to verify on mine is the axle rating and if possible the frame weight rating. Everyone knows the manufacturers tongue weight is dry (tanks empty including fresh) and with NO added weight in the trailer - no cargo. Tongue weight would be about 12-15% of the gvwr. 0.14 x 3877 in your case is 542 lbs tongue weight! 15% is 581 lbs. Your axle rating should be about 3877-387 or 3490 lbs minimum (minimum tongue of 10%?) and each tire half that minimum.
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Old 08-30-2022, 02:37 PM   #16
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Can someone tell me what the axle manufacturer and ratings are for a 2021 Apex 290 BHS?
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Old 08-30-2022, 03:11 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dedobias View Post
Can someone tell me what the axle manufacturer and ratings are for a 2021 Apex 290 BHS?
That should be asked in the Coachmen sub-forum since it's a model-specific question.
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Old 08-30-2022, 06:21 PM   #18
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debobias, are you saying you weighed your trailer with the tongue jack on one scale plat and it came in at 7,400lbs? 200lbs lighter than GVRW!

It does appear you are reaching your CCC limit of 1,432 lbs per this link: https://www.coachmenrv.com
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Old 08-30-2022, 06:31 PM   #19
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Here is a link to post your cat scale numbers in to calculate your tongue weight, tongue percentage and trailer weight.

https://www.coachmenrv.com
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Old 08-30-2022, 06:33 PM   #20
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As per my car trailer manufacture:
Trailer GVWR can be 10% more than the combined axle rating; because, manufactures intend to have 10-12% of the total weight carried by the tow vehicles axles.
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