I am sorry, I am confused about how you determined the hitch weight.
If I were to go back to the scales with just my tow vehicle and weigh it once, front axle weighs 4000lbs and rear axle weighs 4000lbs. Now I weigh it again only this time I put a cargo basket that is attached to my hitch receiver and put 500lbs of rock in it. Now, wouldn't I simply subtract 1st pass from the 2nd pass to determine how much weight went to each axle?
Isn't this why we weigh with the spring bars and then without the spring boards????
Bilchin - in your example with the cargo basket and 500 lbs of rocks you would probably find less weight on the front axles and more than 500 lbs added to the rear. But in this example you know what the rear axle weight is with nothing in the basket (that's the truck alone weight). Neither of your first two passes across the scale give you that info. You have to weigh the truck alone.
__________________
2015 Rockwood Ultra Lite 2604 WS. Rear LR, large street side slide with small wardrobe slide in BR.
2014 Ram 1500 Eco Diesel Laramie Quad Cab.
Yes, you would take the difference between the 2 passes. But you'll note that both passes are without the bars in place i.e. no weight distribution effect. When you put the WDH bars in place it takes some of the tongue weight off the truck and transfers it to the trailer. It also redistributes some tongue weight to the front axle of the TV.
Yes, you would take the difference between the 2 passes. But you'll note that both passes are without the bars in place i.e. no weight distribution effect. When you put the WDH bars in place it takes some of the tongue weight off the truck and transfers it to the trailer. It also redistributes some tongue weight to the front axle of the TV.
Ok, think I got it.......I was confusing the tongue weight with the spring bars on as that being the weight in the rear axle of the TV, instead, the tongue weight with the spring bars on is distributed over both vehicles and when we weigh both with the spring bars it shows where the tongue weight is distributed? Right????
__________________
Bill & Cindy McKenna
Philadelphia PA
2015 Palomino Puma 32DBKS
2005 Ford Excursion 6 liter Turbo Diesel
I think you've got it now. Doing the 3 passes as you did, you can calculate everything you want to know. Ependydad's website does the same thing as my spreadsheet.
I think you've got it now. Doing the 3 passes as you did, you can calculate everything you want to know. Ependydad's website does the same thing as my spreadsheet.
Thanks, everyone on here YOU ROCK!!!!!
__________________
Bill & Cindy McKenna
Philadelphia PA
2015 Palomino Puma 32DBKS
2005 Ford Excursion 6 liter Turbo Diesel
Spoke to soon.
Once you get the tongue weight, the only way to change it is adding or removing weight off of the trailer. Meaning, adjusting the WDH will only transfer the weight not lighten the tongue weight. Correct?
__________________
Bill & Cindy McKenna
Philadelphia PA
2015 Palomino Puma 32DBKS
2005 Ford Excursion 6 liter Turbo Diesel
You are correct. Tongue weight does not change without physically rearranging cargo in the trailer or removing items forward of the trailer axles, especially near the tongue. You still have that tongue weight on the hitch regardless of how it's distributed. Think of it this way, the hitch is the central collection point for all the tongue weight so it then re-distributes it across the fulcrum. The tongue weight is still on the hitch. You also have to calculate your spring bars and hitch into the equation as well as anything in the bed of the truck behind the drive axle as hitch weight. The sum of this equation is compared to the gross tongue hitch rating, which is 1100 lbs in this case.
This is why many half ton haulers such as myself have to be limited on carrying cargo in the bed of the truck, because of the maximum tongue weight rating. My oem hitch max is 500 lbs without wd or 1050 lbs with wd. My tongue weighs 940 lbs and my hitch components weigh 95. The sum of that equals 1035 lbs. Now add another 15 lbs of gear in the bed behind the drive axle and my hitch weight comes to 1050 lbs. It's at the max even though it gets distributed. I cannot change this number by reconfiguring the hitch or spring bar tension.
Hope this explanation helps explain the concept of hitch weight and tongue weight. The very best measurement of calculating tongue weight is to use a scale directly on the tongue at the towing height of the coupler, either level or slightly pitch down. Of course on level ground. You can do this in expensively with a bathroom scale measuring 300 lbs with some boards. This has been explained several times in other posts and you can get very reliable readings on various cargo loading in your trailer. Good luck. Another great resource is equalizer website by progress mfg. Free download on how to properly configure a hitch and concepts of terms.
__________________
2014 Windjammer 3025W Diamond 34.5 ft 8300 lbs.
2010 F150 SC XLT 4x4 5.4L, 3.55 gears 20" rims
12 k Equalizer WDH, Firestone Airbags, HD Bilsteins
TST 507RV TPMS
as I understand the term "tongue weight" it refers to the maximum amount of weight that can be distributed on the hitch and must include cargo behind the drive axle. Even if you do not exceed the GVWR to GAWR or GCWR you can overload the tongue weight rating of a hitch by exceeding this value; All of the reputable companies that I have read about say this has to be factored in. When considering the load on your hitch.....I wish it were different myself.
Consider this excerpt from etrailer:
"A weight-distribution hitch will have two weight ratings - the gross trailer weight and the tongue weight. In choosing a system, therefore, you must determine the following:
Gross Trailer Weight (GTW) refers to the weight of the fully loaded trailer in its actual towing condition.
GTW is measured by placing the fully loaded trailer on a vehicle scale.
Rating of weight-distribution system must match or exceed your GTW.
Tongue Weight (TW) refers to the tongue weight of your trailer and the weight of the cargo that sits behind the rear axle of your vehicle.
Trailer TW is measured using a tongue weight scale
Typically, about 10 to 15 percent of GTW
Weight of cargo behind the rear axle can be measured using a commercial scale
Weigh vehicle without cargo
Weigh vehicle with cargo loaded
Subtract initial weight from weight of loaded vehicle
The TW rating is the most important factor in determining which size weight-distribution system you should use. If the bars of the system you choose are rated too high for your setup, they will create a rigid ride, which can result in a bouncing trailer. If, on the other hand, the bars are not rated high enough, the system will be unable to properly distribute the weight, rendering it virtually useless." (Etrailer.com)
__________________
2014 Windjammer 3025W Diamond 34.5 ft 8300 lbs.
2010 F150 SC XLT 4x4 5.4L, 3.55 gears 20" rims
12 k Equalizer WDH, Firestone Airbags, HD Bilsteins
TST 507RV TPMS
Tongue Weight (TW) refers to the tongue weight of your trailer and the weight of the cargo that sits behind the rear axle of your vehicle.
Trailer TW is measured using a tongue weight scale
Typically, about 10 to 15 percent of GTW
Etrailer has this wrong. Trailer tongue weight, and trailer weight limits printed on the hitch are the capacity for the receiver hitch itself. Anything in the bed of the truck/ suv goes against payload.
Putting a ton of weight behind the truck axle will surely amplify squat and make the setup on the WDH bars different, but it doesn't take away from hitch capacity.
I would think items in the bed would be independant of tongue weight and acceptable as long as gvwr was not exceeded.
I was having some trouble following all the posts
Tongue weight must only be determined with the spring bars removed as it is not changed at all with them in place; only what axles support it. The frame and receiver of the truck and trailer "see" the unsprung tongue weight.
Determine actual camper weight
Sum disconnected truck axles and subtract from connected total rig weight
MUST be less than GVWR of camper
Determine actual tongue weight
Sum unsprung loaded truck axles and subtract sum of disconnected truck axles
Must be less than receiver, hitch, and truck's maximum tongue weight ratings
Weights to compare:
(with spring bars on)
Sum of loaded truck axles less than Pillar Sticker GVWR
Sum of trailer axles less than axle rating x number of axles
Rear truck axle less than GAWR
Front truck axle less than GAWR
Lots more can be determined using your 3 weighings at the scale.
__________________
Lou & Freya the wonder dog
2008 GMC Sierra 3000HD Allison Duramax
2019 Flagstaff 8529FL
Etrailer has this wrong. Trailer tongue weight, and trailer weight limits printed on the hitch are the capacity for the receiver hitch itself. Anything in the bed of the truck/ suv goes against payload.
Putting a ton of weight behind the truck axle will surely amplify squat and make the setup on the WDH bars different, but it doesn't take away from hitch capacity.
Truck payload is everything in or on the truck (except for a full tank of gas and a 150 pound driver).
While actual tongue load is used to determine hitch load; the distributed tongue load is used when calculating payload. This is because a fraction of the actual tongue load gets shifted to the front and camper axles when the tension is applied to the WD hitch.
__________________
Lou & Freya the wonder dog
2008 GMC Sierra 3000HD Allison Duramax
2019 Flagstaff 8529FL
What they are saying is "correct" but not germain to the discussion at hand.
When determining the actual amount of load to be distributed by a WD hitch; it is true that everything "aft" of the rear axle will squat the truck. It has nothing to do with tongue load which is weight added to the truck through the receiver.
Weight added aft of the rear axle is just added to payload carried forward of it.
Where the load carried aft (in the bed) could be a factor is if the maximum deflection of the torsion bars needed to level the load overloads the front truck axle or the camper's axles. In this case moving heavy items up against the tailgate (like gas cans!) forward of the rear axle centerline can require less distribution and relieve some of the load on the distributed axles.
__________________
Lou & Freya the wonder dog
2008 GMC Sierra 3000HD Allison Duramax
2019 Flagstaff 8529FL
as I understand the term "tongue weight" it refers to the maximum amount of weight that can be distributed on the hitch and must include cargo behind the drive axle...
Tongue wt is the weight on the tongue and has nothing to do with what is in the truck bed either in front of the axle or behind the axle. You measure the tongue wt with the trailer unhooked from the tow vehicle.
What the wdh bars have to contend with DOES include what is behind the axle of the truck as well as all the wdh hitch head components.
Your weights are darn near perfect from a WDH standpoint. I wouldn't change a thing, certainly NOT increasing pressure on your srpingbars. Your front axle weighs 60 lbs more than unloaded. Can't get much closer than that. The goal is to restore the front axle weight without going over. You are over by 60 lbs but I would call that OK.
with todays tongue weights, id be concerned about what could be something north of a 300 lbs one dimensional point load on a bathroom scale. how about a 2x2 in place of a pipe, so nothing moves, and a board to distribute load on the scale. this technique was developed before slides when average weights were closer to 400-500 lbs. unless, of course, the bathroom scale has evolved as well to accomodate the increase in weight...NVM
Linear Mode
