What are the warning signs of improper towing?

[KRedburn]

Originally Posted by TitanMike

Sadly it's almost impossible to tell what a properly inflated RADIAL tire looks like. Even inflated to max cold inflation pressure the sidewall can show a bulge near the ground like a half inflated bias ply tire used to show.

One should never rely on looks or even "thumps" with radial tires if you want to be SURE your tires are properly inflated. Use a gauge or TPMS.

Lots of people get away with the old bias ply "look" method but a lot of people have also overinflated tires or worse, had tires fail because they misjudged the pressure and it overheated.

A tire pressure gauge 2-pack is only $5 on Amazon and beats the old eyeball everytime.

I agree with what you say above. My caveat was "comes with experience" and
"gut/seat of pants"

A unusual looking bubble in the side wall at or near the tread "break" is a definite sign that tread separation is happening. Better fixed in rest area rather than on the side of freeway.

A "look" is not definitive but may trigger the "gut" that something is amiss and further investigation is needed.

[bikendan]

Originally Posted by BibelRanch

Here’s more info:

Towing Vehicle is a 2015 Honda Pilot LX 4WD, Towing Load Limits with the passengers and general car cargo is around 4300# (GVWR is 6000#, Tongue load with our estimated passengers is 400#) Vehicle came with tow package, has trans cooler, and just had all lines flushed and serviced. I haven’t checked the tires yet and will upgrade if needed

Trailer is 2021 16BHS wolf pup. GVWR is 3877 (“dry” is supposedly 3000, hitch 377#, 7ft wide, 21ft long, single axle)

The hitch they gave me says Eaz-Lift, Max tongue 600, Max towing 6000. I can’t find any other paperwork on the hitch

The trailer tires are Ridgeway Sport ST ST305/75R14

I’ve only driven this once, home from the dealer, and alone because my husband was working. It felt fine, but I have no idea what doesn’t “feel fine”

Was it level when I drove it off the lot? I guess so. But that probably means nothing since it was empty.

Will I be convincing my husband to upgrade my SUV so we can have a safer tow? Maybe ��

Unfortunately you've fallen victim to slick RV marketing.
The hottest RV market, over the past year, has been these large single axle trailers aimed at consumers like you that have smaller marginal tow vehicles.
What they don't advertise is that many of these trailers have much higher loaded tongue weights than people think.
Even with a conservative estimate of 13% of the trailer's GVWR, for a loaded tongue weight that comes to 500lbs. Especially since that trailer has a low CCC number. For an average family of 4, that 780 number will get eaten up real quickly.
So just realize that you'll have load the TT very conservatively, to stay under the Pilot's max hitch weight of 450lbs.

[PhilFromMaine]

I would suggest you do some more around town towing to get a better feel for the process of towing. If something isn't right, you will know it. Experiment with your brake controller settings. Practice backing up the trailer. Do some of those NH hills to get a feeling for hills.

Towing a TT should feel a lot different than normal travel with your vehicle, but also very acceptable, and that appears to be how you described your your trip home from the dealer.

Also, I highly recommend you do some stay at home "shakedown" weekend camping and truly learn how to operate your trailer before you hit the road.

[chriscowles]

Originally Posted by BibelRanch

Thanks. We live in southern NH and just plan on a bunch of local weekend trips this year. Mostly flat (cape cod) but a few hills (Acadia). It sounds like if I load up my trailer to Max, I’d be close to 90% of my tow limit, which I understand isn’t ideal!

The scales are really going to be the deciding factor I guess. I really don’t want to have to buy a new car. But I guess I will if this doesn’t work.

My guess is that the trailer is too much for the Pilot but the scales will tell you. The link below is helpful. Use the CAT scale phone app.

https://learntorv.com/how-to-weigh-a-travel-trailer/

Stay under ALL limits, i.e., gross (including hitch weight), individual axles, and gross combined. Trust your gut if you feel unsafe but don't exceed the vehicles limits just because it feels "okay".

One limit that many owners aren't aware of is frontal area. Pulling your trailer is like dragging a parachute. Larger surface area and higher speed result in higher drag. The owners manual or towing guide will mention it somewhere. If you can't find it, call the manufacturer.

Beyond that, you can feel if your tow vehicle is struggling or if the trailer is controlling the tow vehicle more than the tow vehicle is controlling the trailer. You might not know that until you try steeper or longer grades. I suggest you do that closer to home before committing to a cross-country trip. It might not be fun.

[chriscowles]

Originally Posted by BibelRanch

Thanks! Very good info. I know my BC is set for “b1” which was “light trailer” and then further set to 5, which was right in the middle. I’ll try lowering it to 3 or less and seeing if that helps.

Your brake controller manual may have instructions on how to tweak the settings. E.g., with brakes warmed up, take your foot off the brake on a level road. The idle speed of the engine should move the TV and trailer. Use the manual brake control to stop. It's should be just enough, not "grabby".

That is only an example from the manual of a controller I owned long ago. Yours will differ but it should provide more detail than "light trailer".

[chriscowles]

Originally Posted by BrandonSmith

What is "porpoising"

It's when the trailer rises and falls in a cyclic pattern. It can be particularly bad on stretches of uneven road or bridges with expansion joints at regular intervals. At certain combinations of hitch settings, tongue weight, driving speed and road height variation intervals, it can become exaggerated, just like side-to-side sway can be.

The technical term is "pitching".

[robo44]

Up and down movement like a dolphin or porpoise

[TitanMike]

When you watch a porpoise swimming on the surface of the water it goes up and down as it moves. Nose up, nose down, repeat.

When a tow vehicle and trailer go over a bump often they will go through the same motions, nose of tow vehicle up, down, repeat. This is "porpoising". It can often be minimized to a point by adjusting the WDH. On my truck it means to cinch up on my spring bars.

[BibelRanch]

Thank you everyone. This forum is great!

For months before I picked up my trailer, I went back and forth with the idea of upgrading my TV. Ultimately I was convinced by other Pilot owners (towing trailers) that it was sufficient.

But my gut is telling me I’ll be driving a Tahoe in a month or two. Husband is annoyed but on board.

We will take one easy flat trip early may and then probably upgrade.

Thank you!

[chriscowles]

Originally Posted by BibelRanch

... Ultimately I was convinced by other Pilot owners (towing trailers) that it was sufficient. ...

It may well be. Don't decide without data.

[mac1_131]

Originally Posted by BibelRanch

Yes it has all of those things. And I know I’m within the limits weight wise. I just have zero experience actually driving with a trailer so idk what to look for in terms of “omg something’s wrong!”



For instance, I drove home from the dealer and it was smooth highway ride, but when I got to my backroads, I definitely felt some “bounce” especially at stop and go intersections. Is that totally normal?

Some bounce at times is normal.

I think you'll know it when you feel it. If it scares the crap out of you and you are experiencing white-knuckled driving, it probably needs some changes. If you see it fishtailing a lot while looking in the mirrors it probably needs some changes.

A little sway occasionally is ok. Think through what you would do if you see a lot of sway (accelerate a little too pull it straight or hit the manual trailer brake controller to pull it straight).

Make sure your manual brake controller does work, hit it while you are driving you should feel a good tug.

Since you are towing near the limits, maybe avoid real windy days and places.

I'm not an expert but these are a few things that come to mind.

Good you have the WDH and get weighed at the CAT scales to verify things.

[lbrjet]

No reason not to give the Honda a try before you run out and buy something else. If a first time tower said it felt fine that is a good sign. RVing is stressful at first no matter what you are towing with.

[rsdata]

As strange as it sounds if everything is setup correctly you'll have times as you drive you forget it's behind you. If your constantly feeling the trailer jerking on your truck something isn't quiet right. Can't offer a better explanation other than time in the seat getting a feel for what is "normal" vs a problem.

X 2 agree with this

BUT on another note... I suspect you have P rated tires as standard equipment for your Honda... these are on to give that nice plush comfy ride, but they are NOT good while trailering.

I would put an LT rated tire on that Honda and I suspect the trailering will be a little nicer. LT tires are stiffer side walls that improve cornering, and because they do not give as much as P tires, will help control any sway from the trailer.

Michelin makes an LTX tire you might want to look at. Costco currently have them on sale.

[dfriedman]

" ... ensure you check your tire pressure. Buy a 12v air pump and keep it in your camper or the vehicle. Check both prior to leaving."

Double amen to that. But - Check your tire pressures when they're cold. I carry a small AC powered compressor; a 12 V air pump may not put out enough air volume (cubic feet per minute, aka cfm) - it can take quite a while to bring a tire up a few pounds.

[TitanMike]

Originally Posted by rsdata

X 2 agree with this

BUT on another note... I suspect you have P rated tires as standard equipment for your Honda... these are on to give that nice plush comfy ride, but they are NOT good while trailering.

I would put an LT rated tire on that Honda and I suspect the trailering will be a little nicer. LT tires are stiffer side walls that improve cornering, and because they do not give as much as P tires, will help control any sway from the trailer.

Michelin makes an LTX tire you might want to look at. Costco currently have them on sale.

Or perhaps just the same size tire in an "XL" type (if available). This type of tire allows for greater inflation pressure (usually 44 psi max vs 36 psi). Still the same load rating but provides for a stiffer tire when towing and just air down to "door sticker" pressure when back to just a 'family car'.

LT's may not be available for the Pilot and if they are, would probably beat everyone to death when not heavily loaded.

General makes an XL type tire that should fit this vehicle but no LT's to be found.

[Jerry-Rigged]

2 things I want to add -

1- Double check the cargo capacity sticker inside the door jam. It is the yellow/white one with tire info on it. Be sure to subtract tongue weight, people and other cargo. I have a 2010 F150 with a 9500lb tow rating, but 1050 cargo. Based on the Cargo rating, I can't tow my 4800# trailer with the family in the truck - even with the truck otherwise empty! So if you upgrade to a Tahoe (or similar) still watch the door jam sticker. And realize that as you add options to the TV, the truck weight will go up and that cargo rating will go down (this is my F150 issue - 4x4 Lariat SCrew with V8, but no upgraded axles) Most full size trucks will have a High Cargo option, but you might have to order a truck to get it. (FYI, we now tow with DW's Sequoia - it has a higher cargo rating, plus the kids are more comfortable. )

#2 - on the tire pressure - I have gotten in the habit, when I stop while towing, I will walk around the rig and touch every tire. If a tire is getting warm, it has an issue. My last trip out, this saved me - I had a nail in the truck tire - pressure had dropped from 45 (max pressure for that tire) to 33 - not enough to set off the TPMS, but enough that the tire was warmer than the others. I was able to note the temp difference, which prompted me to check the pressure (very minor difference in tire sidewall squish), which led me to find the nail. Probably saved me changing a tire on the side of the road.

Jerry

[Mike134]

Originally Posted by BibelRanch

Thank you everyone. This forum is great!

For months before I picked up my trailer, I went back and forth with the idea of upgrading my TV. Ultimately I was convinced by other Pilot owners (towing trailers) that it was sufficient.

That's your best source other Pilot owners!!

[Larry-NC]

Originally Posted by BibelRanch

Thank you everyone. This forum is great!

For months before I picked up my trailer, I went back and forth with the idea of upgrading my TV. Ultimately I was convinced by other Pilot owners (towing trailers) that it was sufficient.

But my gut is telling me I’ll be driving a Tahoe in a month or two. Husband is annoyed but on board.

We will take one easy flat trip early may and then probably upgrade.

Thank you!

After the flat test ride seems okay, try an uphill and a downhill section. Watch to see if the combination can maintain, say, 40 mph on a sustained uphill section without overheating. On the downhill section, see whether the trailer feels like it pushing the tow vehicle, or if it wants to get ahead of the tow vehicle.

And see what happens when a semi passes you going the other direction on a two-lane road when you are each doing 45-50 mph.

You will know if you are uncomfortable in any of these situations.

[007matman]

Originally Posted by Mike134

Be careful with opinions you get from a forum. You have no idea about their expertise based on how often they post.

I've found forums to be very helpful with "how does this work?" As to "can I tow this?" now your looking for advise from a group of folks sitting along the bar, unless they have the same setup as you.

Hitch weight is 377# and the TV max is 400#. Think they'll have an extra 23#'s on there with water, battery, and Propane?

Sent from the bar.

[bubbles]

Looks like every thing for the warning signs of improper towing have been covered except one; when you look in the rear view mirror and it's no longer there that might be a warning sign of improper towing.