190 lbs over gross weight... what do you think???

[Trawlerphil]

Product liability lawyers never believe the engineers so published numbers are always less than the engineers said was safe. I've towed a 9,000 lb. Flagstaff Classic 8528RKWS 38,380 miles and every mountain range in the country with a Tundra. No problems. I just bought a 2018 F-150 with Max Tow so I'm actually "legal" now so the "weight police" may leave me alone.

If you want to feel good, just empty the fresh water tank.

[BehindBars]

Originally Posted by Jason1Pa

As some others have said I'd be looking at each axle weight more then the overall weight. I personally would feel ok being 190 over. As we all know the fuel tanks don't remain full for too long �� so you'll be under weight in no time. If anything just go threw all your cargo and maybe eliminate stuff that might not be totally necessary. Maybe limit the amount of fresh water if possible and enjoy the ride.

Well I understand your point, but I just had to do the math. Nope. When the 26.4 gallon tank of diesel goes bone dry, it’s still overweight. 6.91 pounds/gallon x 26.4 gallons = approximately 182 pounds of fuel.

[Vegabonds]

Reduce the fresh water in tank to under 7 gallons and you will be slightly underweight. You can take care of your en route needs with 7 gallons.
Assuming a 30 gal. fresh tank and the weight of water is 8.33 lbs. per gallon.
Your weight loss is as follows:
8.33 lbs./gal. X 23 gal. =~191.59 lbs.
Like it has been said, ensure that front to back and side to side you have good balance and are not exceeding axle ratings. Make sure that your tires are inflated to the posted cold tire pressures indicated on the door frame sticker.
Happy, worry free, and safe travels.

[kcmusa]

I travel with a few gallons of water, never a full tank. Can always fill close to your destination.

[DouglasReid]

First of all Id look at the axle weights and if neither is over their individual limit I would not give it another thought.

If you want to get under the weight here is my suggestion unless you are going boondocking:

Drop 20 gallons of water, @ 8.2 lbs. per that is 164 lbs.
Now as soon as you burn10 gallons of fuel you will be under the limit.

[SlowrideHD]

Originally Posted by Trawlerphil

Product liability lawyers never believe the engineers so published numbers are always less than the engineers said was safe. I've towed a 9,000 lb. Flagstaff Classic 8528RKWS 38,380 miles and every mountain range in the country with a Tundra. No problems. I just bought a 2018 F-150 with Max Tow so I'm actually "legal" now so the "weight police" may leave me alone.

If you want to feel good, just empty the fresh water tank.

I had a little Ford Courier in the early 70's (practically just a little Mazda pickup). 4 cylinder, 4 speed manual. Great little truck. We had a wood heater and I liked throwing a couple chunks of coal in it at bedtime so the fire would last all night.
One morning as I left for work I asked the wife to run to town that day to the coal yard and get 1,000 lbs of coal. I guess she forgot the amount, probably told them "about a ton". When I got home from work that evening the truck (full of coal) was sitting at the bottom of the hill and our steep driveway. I asked her why she left it there and she said, "it was driving a bit funny". So she was afraid to drive it up the hill.
When I looked at the weight ticket, it had about 2600 lbs of coal on it. I haven't worried too much about weight ratings since then!

[Dieselguy44]

First check your axle weight rating and ensure you are under that rating. Also look at tire load capacity. If you are over that I would not tow it. I would never exceed tire load capacity period. If you need to lighten up your camper up then do it. Do not exceed GVWR, GCVWR or GAWR. I tow allot and was within 400 lbs of rear GAWR and 100 LBS over GVWR. Under GCWR by 100lbs. I bought a bigger truck. Now I am way under all weights and it is a very comfortable tow. Weight police or not why risk it.

[Brother Les]

Tire Minders... but that adds more weight.

[Slow Moon]

Originally Posted by WanderMore

You should be fine until there’s an accident and that Cat Scale ticket gets entered into evidence.

How many questionable assumptions can be involved here?

One, the Cat Scale ticket to which you refer does NOT show the weight of your rig on the future date of some assumed accident. Many things might have changed since that ticket, some already mentioned. It may be irrelevant or have so little probative value so it's likely inadmissible into evidence.

Two, the ticket shows that at some time in the past, a scale of questionable accuracy said you were 1.7% over a GVWR sticker based on unknown criteria. If set by the coach builder, it might be set unnecessarily low based on nothing more than the desire of the coach builder to shield itself from any legal liability and shift everything to the driver. This may be true even if the GVWR is set by the chassis manufacturer. [Some here talk as if exceeding a sticker weight is negligence per se or a strict liability tort. I have not seen any citation of statute or case law to support that. I don't have time to research it today.]

Three, to put 1.7% into perspective, imagine that in a 70mph zone, you were traveling 1.7% over the speed limit, a whopping 71.2mph. How much effect would this have on your legal liability? I'm thinking not much. Do you think it would even be mentioned? -- probably not -- except in the case of "too fast for conditions," which is not based on an arbitrary number.

If an accident is not your fault, you may not have a financial or insurance impact, no matter what the Cat Scale says. If an accident is your fault, you will likely have a financial or insurance impact, no matter what the Cat Scale ticket says. Will the Cat Scale ticket to which you refer make you liable? --almost certainly not, and it will certainly not invalidate your insurance coverage.

[Scrapper]

Originally Posted by Slow Moon

How many questionable assumptions can be involved here?

One, the Cat Scale ticket to which you refer does NOT show the weight of your rig on the future date of some assumed accident. Many things might have changed since that ticket, some already mentioned. It may be irrelevant or have so little probative value so it's likely inadmissible into evidence.

Two, the ticket shows that at some time in the past, a scale of questionable accuracy said you were 1.7% over a GVWR sticker based on unknown criteria. If set by the coach builder, it might be set unnecessarily low based on nothing more than the desire of the coach builder to shield itself from any legal liability and shift everything to the driver. This may be true even if the GVWR is set by the chassis manufacturer. [Some here talk as if exceeding a sticker weight is negligence per se or a strict liability tort. I have not seen any citation of statute or case law to support that. I don't have time to research it today.]

Three, to put 1.7% into perspective, imagine that in a 70mph zone, you were traveling 1.7% over the speed limit, a whopping 71.2mph. How much effect would this have on your legal liability? I'm thinking not much. Do you think it would even be mentioned? -- probably not -- except in the case of "too fast for conditions," which is not based on an arbitrary number.

If an accident is not your fault, you may not have a financial or insurance impact, no matter what the Cat Scale says. If an accident is your fault, you will likely have a financial or insurance impact, no matter what the Cat Scale ticket says. Will the Cat Scale ticket to which you refer make you liable? --almost certainly not, and it will certainly not invalidate your insurance coverage.

Quoted from https://catscale.com/about/
"With the stringent weight regulations and potential fines associated with violating such regulations, CAT Scale Company provides a much needed service to the trucking public. CAT brand scales are covered by an unconditional guarantee. If a driver receives an overweight fine after weighing legal on a CAT brand scale, CAT Scale Company will either pay the fine or appear in court with the driver as an expert witness in order to get the fine dismissed. In either scenario, the driver is covered by the guarantee and does not have to pay the fine, as long as they weighed on a CAT brand scale prior to receiving the citation."


Certified scales used for interstate commerce, which a CAT scale is, must be annually inspected, calibrated and repaired by an outside contractor approved and certified by the state's, provinces or governing bodies Division of Weights and Measures. Each test weight block must be labeled and constructed in a manner that any minor damage will not effect the known weight of said block. Weights of individual test blocks are usually 500#, 1000# and 2000#.

Testing of scale platforms is to be done with the same weight and must be set at each end and middle and verified to match. The final test is done with varying weights set on all platforms. A 5 platform scale (spread axle trailers) will take a minimum of 15 individual weighs with a final weighing on all 5 platforms.

During operation, the scale master must document erroneous weights and reset zero (know as reset zero, zero set or zeroing out). Resetting zero may be done numerous times during hours of operation because of weather conditions. Drivers entering/pulling onto the scale too fast and/or stopping abruptly can cause shifting of the scale platforms or damage to the load cells. Many times the scale master or operator will test the zeroing out of the scale platforms by stepping onto the platform then stepping off. If any scale can not zero out by resetting zero or has any damage that effects it's operation it must be taken out of service until repaired and re-certified. Exterior readouts must exactly match the readout at the scale operators control panel.

Damage to the load cell(s) or scale platform can place the scale out of commission for a day or more. Old mechanical single platform scales would have minimum readings of 20#, 50# or 100#. Digital scales can have minimum readings of 10# to 20#. Certified scales, whether digital or mechanical must have the minimum reading of no more than 20#.

I have worked with certified scales for 62 years starting with a grain co-op while a senior in high school.

[Slow Moon]

Originally Posted by Scrapper

Quoted from https://catscale.com/about/
"With the stringent weight regulations and potential fines associated with violating such regulations, CAT Scale Company provides a much needed service to the trucking public. CAT brand scales are covered by an unconditional guarantee. If a driver receives an overweight fine after weighing legal on a CAT brand scale, CAT Scale Company will either pay the fine or appear in court with the driver as an expert witness in order to get the fine dismissed. In either scenario, the driver is covered by the guarantee and does not have to pay the fine, as long as they weighed on a CAT brand scale prior to receiving the citation."


Certified scales used for interstate commerce, which a CAT scale is, must be annually inspected, calibrated and repaired by an outside contractor approved and certified by the state's, provinces or governing bodies Division of Weights and Measures. Each test weight block must be labeled and constructed in a manner that any minor damage will not effect the known weight of said block. Weights of individual test blocks are usually 500#, 1000# and 2000#.

Testing of scale platforms is to be done with the same weight and must be set at each end and middle and verified to match. The final test is done with varying weights set on all platforms. A 5 platform scale (spread axle trailers) will take a minimum of 15 individual weighs with a final weighing on all 5 platforms.

During operation, the scale master must document erroneous weights and reset zero (know as reset zero, zero set or zeroing out). Resetting zero may be done numerous times during hours of operation because of weather conditions. Drivers entering/pulling onto the scale too fast and/or stopping abruptly can cause shifting of the scale platforms or damage to the load cells. Many times the scale master or operator will test the zeroing out of the scale platforms by stepping onto the platform then stepping off. If any scale can not zero out by resetting zero or has any damage that effects it's operation it must be taken out of service until repaired and re-certified. Exterior readouts must exactly match the readout at the scale operators control panel.

Damage to the load cell(s) or scale platform can place the scale out of commission for a day or more. Old mechanical single platform scales would have minimum readings of 20#, 50# or 100#. Digital scales can have minimum readings of 10# to 20#. Certified scales, whether digital or mechanical must have the minimum reading of no more than 20#.

I have worked with certified scales for 62 years starting with a grain co-op while a senior in high school.

Thank you. That's all good to know, but that's not the issue I was concerned about regarding how an old weight ticket will be questionable as evidence.

My point is that years later it is not easy for someone wanting to use as evidence an old document from a source that would reliable when new. The problem is that after time has passed, the authentication necessary for a court to allow an old document to be introduced into evidence may be difficult to produce. There are many things that can affect any given weighing, and even IF someone could get their hands on the particular Cat Scale ticket to which the OP referred, there may be formidable obstacles to using it as evidence. This is true even if as a general matter that CURRENT Cat Scale tickets are generally regarded as accurate, as far as the scales themselves are concerned. For example, years later, will someone be able to find the operator to testify about how the weighing was performed or weather he/she personally inspected the interior of the rig to see if temporary cargo inflated the ticket weight that day? If the operator can be found, can he testify that the owner did not have 500 extra pounds of provisions and gear? There are other ways to question the reliability of old documents, too many to mention, especially since old weight tickets are irrelevant or lack probative value for other reasons including those discussed in my post.

I did not intend to imply in any way that current Cat Scale tickets are not reliable. I am sorry if it was taken that way and apologize for that.

In any event, here's an example to show how relatively unimportant any old weight ticket will be after an accident:

EXAMPLE--You are following a car and cannot stop your rig in time to avoid a rear-end collision. Are you liable? YES. Are you liable if you are under sticker weight? YES. Does anyone need to look at a weight ticket to determine you are liable? NO.

[BehindBars]

This whole overweight situation starts with RV builders deciding to build a class C motorhome of this size on a Sprinter 3500 chassis. The CCC is or should be posted on the door frame yellow label. It’s not like the RV builder tries to hide it, but the salesperson might forget to mention it. The customer knowingly or unknowingly buys the motorhome with this low CCC rating, and proceeds to use it like one might very well expect to use a motorhome. And the result, I’d guess, is that much of the time the MBS class C ends up overweight.

So, having this debate has some value, but this “is it OK that I’m overweight” type of discussion was inevitable the very moment the RV builder designed this coach. Yep, the motorhome is overweight, and now it’s up to the owner to decide whether to be concerned, or ignore it.

[ependydad]

Originally Posted by SlowrideHD

I would never even give it a second thought. The "weight police" on here will no doubt have different opinions.

Some of us buckled the frames of our fifth wheels and have friends whose frames have also failed. So, you know... different perspectives.

I will say, the only frame failures I've ever heard of are from trailer owners. I've yet to hear of a motorhome frame/house/body failure. So 200 lbs. overweight may be fine.

Personally, given my past experience, I'd dump 200 pounds of water and would be on my way.

[TitanMike]

Originally Posted by ependydad

Some of us buckled the frames of our fifth wheels and have friends whose frames have also failed. So, you know... different perspectives.

I will say, the only frame failures I've ever heard of are from trailer owners. I've yet to hear of a motorhome frame/house/body failure. So 200 lbs. overweight may be fine.

Personally, given my past experience, I'd dump 200 pounds of water and would be on my way.

Since I boondock I'd keep the water and shed 200# of stuff I have accumulated over the years and don't use.

[D W]

I have to say, I find these discussions about "weight" most amusing.

[TitanMike]

Originally Posted by D W

I have to say, I find these discussions about "weight" most amusing.

You can use the text of this post as "boilerplate" for lots of topics. Just substitute for "weight" the following: tires, batteries, generators, inverters, traveling with full fresh water tank, how to dump a black tank, tank chemicals, and so on.

I know I've missed at least a dozen more

[cdnred]

As others have said, unless you were planning to do some dry camping there's no need to be carrying around all that water in your tank. When you get to your destination and are fully hooked up, you'll be using the campgrounds water at that point anyways. I never carry water with me unless I plan to go somewhere where there aren't any water hookups...

[BehindBars]

Originally Posted by cdnred

As others have said, unless you were planning to do some dry camping there's no need to be carrying around all that water in your tank. When you get to your destination and are fully hooked up, you'll be using the campgrounds water at that point anyways. I never carry water with me unless I plan to go somewhere where there aren't any water hookups...

If you get to the campsite and you find the water is off because their pump failed or it’s off because they’re awaiting test results or you find the water quality is bad or whatever, you’ll sure be glad you brought water with you.

A motorhome should be designed to be able to carry water in it’s fresh water tank when traveling. If it becomes a choice of bring water or leave the wife and dogs at home to save weight, something is wrong with the motorhome’s design.

[lcv800]

If you're worries about being scaled after an accident, don't worry. Your crap will be scattered all over the highway and they'd have to weigh your stuff in a bushel basket. Relax and enjoy yourself.
Rusty

[Fletch77]

Well here’s my two cents, After being on the road for 25 years (truck driver) I have yet to find a scale that is dead on. For example one scale ticket read 79985 gross drives 11850 Steers 35645 trailer 32490 . So slide my trailer tandem’s forward 2 holes no that should put 1000 pounds on my trailer. Re weight 79785 gross wait how can I weight less point being that happens more than people think. And yes I always used a cat scale.