2006 Sunseeker 2860DS Delamination Repair

[DocP]

Great step-by-step explanation. Thanks for the posts!

[ChrisParise]

Originally Posted by DocP

Great step-by-step explanation. Thanks for the posts!

Thank you!

[ChrisParise]

Took off all the outside plywood clamping surfaces & clamps this afternoon.

There's more pictures to come of the finished product but I wanted to post these results.

The last section, C, glued Sunday afternoon had been clamped 24 hours past resin curing time and section B plywood clamping that was still in place had been cured for almost 48 hours

Overall, I am very pleased with the results, so far.

There was previously a sizeable bulge from just below the bottom of the cabover rear corner window frame down to about the middle front of the coach window and it has been reduced to a couple smaller undulations and the sidewalls are solid - not hollow sounding

In addition to that bulge, each section had filon that needed to be reattached. It all appears solid so far.

I did notice minor resin leakage onto the fiberglass under the main coach window but I expect the window frame will cover some and since the resin is clear I can live with that. I'll be looking for any more resin leaks under the yellow finishing tape. Will keep you all posted.

It's been rainy but unseasonably warm for the end of September. Resin is not supposed to be subjected to temps below 60 and I achieved that.

Because of more rain in the forecast today I didn't pull off all the tape yet, just wanted to get the windows better sealed up from the rain.

[NoviBill]

Spectacular work and a great tutorial on how to fix delamination.

[ChrisParise]

Originally Posted by NoviBill

Spectacular work and a great tutorial on how to fix delamination.

Thank you. I've got a little delamination on the other side and will tackle that in the spring. I believe the plywood clamping surfaces I made will work there without much modification - that's the hard part!

[ChrisParise]

Spent a couple hours scraping off the old butly tape.
Took pictures of the spacer locations and the serial # / part # sticker on the inside of the window frames in case they ever need replacing.

Windows getting installed tomorrow, pictures coming

[BehindBars]

I probably missed it in the conversation, but what is the origin or root cause of this delamination condition? Is it due to poor original construction materials or technique? Is it from water intrusion due to roof or seam leaks? I did see mention of a water leak that apparently went unnoticed. Has the RV spent most of it’s life indoors or outdoors?

I owned a 1995 class C for 21 years but never had a delamination issue.

[ChrisParise]

Originally Posted by BehindBars

I probably missed it in the conversation, but what is the origin or root cause of this delamination condition? Is it due to poor original construction materials or technique? Is it from water intrusion due to roof or seam leaks? I did see mention of a water leak that apparently went unnoticed. Has the RV spent most of it’s life indoors or outdoors?

I owned a 1995 class C for 21 years but never had a delamination issue.

First noticed leaks, small amout of water pooling inside on the cabover base, spring of 2017. I think I posted it on the forum but it's been awhile.

Dealer ran pressure test and did some sealing. Didn't stop the leaks. Shortly after getting it back it rained so i went inside and saw water slowly dripping from the sidewall above both cabover windows. I've got pictures somewhere.

Took back to dealer. A few gutter rail screws (there's 30 or so each side) had come loose. They removed them all and resealed the holes.

They also replaced some wallboard above the drivers seat and down behind that wing wall.

Been dry ever since.

I check them every year now. Kind of a pain because the insert trim has to come off. It's a ticking time bomb imo.

The damage inside is cosmetic. I slept up there on this years trip to Glacier, brother in law took the bed because of his back, and it's solid. But the leak caused some delamination and I believe some is just travel movement related or age.

[ChrisParise]

Progress update.

Butly tape applied to the window frames

Windows in. Dry fitted to start because some epoxy had pooled on the top of the coach window openIng and I was concerned that would interfere with putting the window in.

Cabover window simple

The pooled epoxy prevented installing the clamp ring on the coach window. Epoxy is hard as a rock. The window openings had been well sealed with finishing tape and sheet plastic and I could not see the pooled epoxy until it was too late.

Using a narrow wood chisel and hammer at near horizontal and 100 taps, I cleared out the majority of the pooled epoxy

Dry fit the window again, after removing the spoiled butly tape, and also dry fit the clamp ring this time.
Applied new butly tape.
Aligned perfectly and installed that window.

Btw, epoxy did leak where I didn't want it on the fiberglass but it was easy to remove with a safety razor blade. Composet says the only way to remove the epoxy is by sanding but the razor blade method worked for me.

Not finished cleaning up. More pictures coming

Edit. Note how I labeled the epoxy injection points on the cabovee in the order that made the most sense. Epoxy working time is of the essence and I found the numbering and order system helpful


Attachment 293496Attachment 293497Attachment 293498Attachment 293499Attachment 293500Attachment 293501

[ChrisParise]

The delamination project is nearly done. Minor outside cleanup yet to do. I'd like to wash and wax it yet before storing for winter too.

Yesterday, tightened the window clamp ring screws for the 2nd time. All done by hand so as not to overtighten. Only a handful needed tightening

Also, installed the front awning support arm bracket. Injected gorilla glue into the lag screw holes, reassembled bracket.

Earlier had reported the lpg tank access door was stuck and I had a hunch epoxy had leaked onto it and glued it shut. Was right! All I did was run a plastic shim around the top of the cover and it came free. Used a narrow wood chisel and carefully removed a few inches of epoxy that had pooled on the top edge. Back in working order.

Epoxy is proving to be quite effective as a glue! And it leaks out of joints in ways that imo that can not be 100% prevented, despite covering with heavy plastic sheeting and finishing tape - just clean it up later.

Today...

I did re-caulk the passenger side seams from the lpg tank on the bottom up to and around the cabover. Had some yellow finishing tape still up there but found epoxy, also yellow, had oozed up along the bottom edge of the cabover despite the joint being caulked and taped

Took me almost 2 hours just to clean that edge with a safety razor wedging it under the epoxy and pulling the dried epoxy out a half inch at a time. Luckily, if you can call it that, most of the epoxy was on top of the caulk in the joint so mineral spirits and the razor blade worked on it.

Used painters and finishing tape to create borders for the caulk job.

Then I removed excess butly from the windows. Easy job. Used a fresh plastic scraper corner and ran it against the window frame scoring it. Pulled on the butly and it separated cleanly from the frame in long pieces.

Attached awning support arm.

[karykatz]

great info - thanks for showing the forum members.

[NoviBill]

Great information on fixing delamination and great results!

[ChrisParise]

Originally Posted by karykatz

great info - thanks for showing the forum members.

Thank you. I hope I've demonstrated delamination can be addressed and possibly inspired others to try and repair their units.

[ChrisParise]

Originally Posted by NoviBill

Great information on fixing delamination and great results!

Hope you've "enjoyed" my project.

I plan to publish a summary with materials, tools, cost, and learnings

[ChrisParise]

Summary Delamination Repair Project

This is a long post. Refer to earlier posts on project scope, more pictures and near real time update posts on details.

I’ll cover the main elements of the repair, an update on an interior wall board repair related to the delamination repair, and many learnings!
See pictures of interior wallboard repair in stages of putting it all back together in traveling mode next season!

All costs are approximate except for the interior wallboard repair. Total cost, about $1500.

Lumber $300:

6 ½” 2x4 plywood handy-panels – 2 too many
12 1x4x8 pine boards – width is acceptable/flexible enough to use for bracing between a stationary object and the rv
6 1x6x8 pine boards – 4 too many
2 1x10x10 pine boards
Large pack of Shims

I stored the A, B and C section pieces for reuse. The driver’s side is almost a mirror image of the passenger side and there’s always a chance to reuse.

Epoxy $400:

Composet 2.5-quart kit and large roller for open wall repair. Open wall is defined as having access to both sides of the sidewall. Composet Kits come with epoxy and hardener, measuring cups, stir sticks, tubing, pipes, syringes, putty knives, instructions

Composet for closed wall repair. Epoxy can be troweled, not meant to be injected. Did not need. Delamination on cabover was limited to around the window – the rest was well attached and Composet warned about filon splitting or cracking if I attempted to peel it back.

There are other epoxy brands but I was very pleased with the project analysis, advice, and support from Composet.

Clamps $200 (all from Harbor Freight):

6 12” C Clamps – could have used another 2. The greater depth allows clamping beyond the reach of smaller clamps.
4 8” C Clamps – depth allows clamping beyond the reach of smaller clamps
8 4” Clamps (had 4 already so overall had 12 of these. They work great around window edges)
2 12” bar Clamps – very handy and easier/quicker to set. Use around opening edges

On clamping, I removed the dinette and cabover windows to clamp the sidewalls. Had my driveway been close to a building with hardboard siding or brick walls (not feasible with my aluminum and steel sided house and detached garage), I probably could have wedged boards between the rv and a stationary structure as clamps.

I wasn’t sure how tight the clamping action needed to be and erred on the side of tight compression between the bracing on the inside and outside forms. My sidewalls are galvanized square steel tubing framing, yet I was mindful of not over tightening.

Window removal and installation (mostly labor cost):

Bought butyl tape from Amazon. It wasn’t expensive, maybe $30 for 30’. 2 windows to seal, the dinette window is about 60x20 and cabover window is about 30x15. I ran out of the fresh new butyl tape and for the last couple feet used some old stuff I resurrected from the garbage can. So I’d recommend buying extra butyl tape, despite measuring needs in advance. Not sure there was 30’ in the package.

Except for removing and installing the windows, I did the project by myself. My sons took turns helping me take them out and put them in. The windows came out with some effort once the clamp rings were removed. Glad a helper was on the outside to hold them and wedge their fingers under the frames and pull when they started to release.

Earlier, I posted pictures of the window openings. The openings looked factory fresh confirming my leaks came from above them and followed the framing around them.

The butyl tape is extremely sticky, so the windows need to be carefully positioned before inserting them in the openings otherwise getting them out to reposition required taking them to the workbench to ensure the tape was correctly installed. Once the windows are in the openings, they aren’t going to fall out but my son kept pressure on them while I installed the clamp rings on the inside. I was careful to tighten them over a period of 3 days and did so in an alternating screw tightening pattern. Do not overtighten the screws. Enough tape squeezed out to visually confirm good seals. I cleaned up the excess a week later with a plastic putty knife and mineral spirits followed by Geocel RV Proflex.

Interior Repair $475:

My RV dealer made the repair. The walls are vacuum bonded at the factory and there’s no way to effectively patch the wall board like a drywall repair. Instead, new wall board was laid over the damaged sections. I must say, it turned out well and because the dinette window valance and privacy curtain for the cabover covers it almost completely, its hardly noticeable and I find it pleasing although not an exact color match.

Tools and Equipment:

Tape measure, 4’ drywall T square, table saw, jig saw, cross cut hand saw, coping saw, cordless drill, corded drill & bits, screw drivers, small screws, long handled axe and small sledge hammer (used to pound in stakes holding the ledger board vertical), work horses to make a long workbench, 2 8’ step ladders, 2 3’ step ladders, 2 rolling carts (I kept one near my outside work area and the other in my garage for frequently used tools), large display kitchen timer to keep tabs on epoxy mixing time and epoxy work life, caulking gun, butyl tape, Geocel RV Proflex, lots of plastic HD sheeting, painters tape (Composet kit came with automotive finishing tape which was great to work with but you’ll need wider painters tape for the plastic sheeting and bigger areas to mask.

Learnings:

This project is like painting a house, if you’ve ever done that. Lots of planning and design. Accomplishing the bracing on the inside was 10x harder to plan and fabricate than the outside bracing forms. Had to get creative and use solid fixtures in the rv as braces, removed the dinette seat cushions and plywood seat bases and storage doors under the bench seating to get to some of it. I may have included pictures previously but as an example my under the dinette seat area has storage with a drop-down hinged access door – which I removed - and I clamped a 1x4 to the outside opening framing to use as an extended brace for the small vertical sidewall area between the back of the dinette and the passenger seat wing wall. Simple but effective to hold bracing in place. Another example, I used the plate steel structures under the dinette bench seat, which is bolted to the floor and to which the dinette seat belts are attached, as a bracing points for the lower sidewall. See earlier pictures.

Worth noting how effective heavy duty plastic sheeting can be to cover work areas, window openings, fresh work, from rain and wind. No one wants rain inside their rig, right? I found that cutting overside pieces of plastic sheeting and using green painters’ tape to attach them over the window openings was effective at keeping rain out of the rv. Just peel back the tape and sheeting and use more painters tape to keep them out of the way when you need to access adjacent areas. Every few days I refreshed the painter’s tape if they had been exposed to a lot of rain, eventually the tape gets wet and while it still kept out the rain had me concerned about its longevity.
Epoxy leaks. Despite extensive tape and plastic sheet masking on the inside and outside, I had epoxy leaks after injecting. The problem is masking hides what is happening underneath. A leak below the dinette window glued an inside wood brace to the wall board, which tore off a small area of wall board when I disassembled the bracing. On the outside filon, I had some epoxy leaks which I didn’t discover until the epoxy had cured. Luckily, I found that the epoxy could be removed from the filon with careful use of a small metal razor blade scraper. I did not have any epoxy leak onto the cabover chassis (doors, hood, etc) but some did drip out and land on the cement under the cabover.

If there’s a next time, I will remove as much masking as possible after injecting epoxy and setting up the clamps and bracing. If the epoxy hasn’t cured, it can be cleaned up with soap and water.
Practice and refine the clamping plan then practice it again. Take a few hours to do this the day before you plan on gluing. I cut small squares of plywood and attached them to lumber bracing on the inside and outside lumber to act as ‘stops’ for lengths of lumber wedges against solid objects. Actually, I mass produced 20-30 small plywood squares to screw onto bracing for this purpose once I realized their necessity.

Mockup your clamps positions. Once I had the inside and outside sidewall forms and bracing built, I put up all the clamps I planned on using. In my case, I needed a variety of clamp depths to reach the delaminated areas of repair. Some clamps were installed from the inside, some on the outside. So I had to think about which to do first and where I needed to be when I finished injecting epoxy. Once I was satisfied with the clamp locations, I took a sharpie and outlined where they clamped on the lumber. I loosely prepositioned or logically laid them out on the dinette table or the cabover base so I could just go down the line of clamps to tighten or put them on when finished with gluing.

On section A, closest to the ground, I used a vertical ledger board held up on the ground with stakes I cut on the table saw. Against the ledger board I screwed on those small plywood squares to wedge lengths of 1x4 between the ledger board and the bracing sidewall of the rv. These bracing 1x4s are all custom cut to length, sometimes requiring 3-5 cuts on the table saw to get the right pressure on the sidewall. Very time consuming. I numbered the 1x4’s and their corresponding end points on the ledger board and the rv to quickly put them in place once I was done glueing. No guess work or confusion, just line them up according to the numbers. If you don’t know, the epoxy has a limited working life before it sets up – you’ve got about 30 minutes after mixing to get it injected, and clamped – maybe another 10 minutes in cooler temperatures (which I had temps in the upper 60s to the low 70s)

Mock practice your injection points. Find where the filon is open, how you’ll point the syringe, if you’ll need any syringe extension tubing, how far the tubing will go under the filon, know if you’ll be able to inject epoxy on both sides of the wall – between the wall and the filon and the wall against the sidewall. Know what size syringe you’ll need, estimate the epoxy batch size and as best you can how much to inject in each area. Work from the bottom up. I had 3 sections to fix and did one a day, waiting at least a day between them – taking this time to build braces, formulating and refining plans, planning which clamps to keep in place, which ones to move or add to the next section. I thought I had this figured out but after planning section B had to run out and buy more C Clamps.

Section A, the lowest, was the easiest to do. I just filled the syringe and pumped it in angling the syringe and injecting downward then rolled it to make sure it was all spread out. But on sections B and C, I planned out the order of my injection points and numbered them on painters’ tape with a Sharpie so I knew where to start injecting, where to go next, and where to end up. No guessing or wondering how I was going to glue.

You get better and faster at doing it very quickly. I had more than one area to glue and the first was simple, so I had a chance to learn and put that learning to use later.

On judging the epoxy batch size and syringe size, look at the mixing cup markings and ask yourself how much area you must glue. There’s not that much free space between loose filon and the sidewall so it’s not like you need a tanker truck to glue it back together. But plan ahead. I think I made 150cc of epoxy for section A and 300cc for sections B and C. I used the small syringes that came with the kit, there are 4 or 5 small ones. When I made 300cc batches I filled a small syringe twice. I used one small metal straight pipe extension and 1 or 2 lengths of flexible tubing extensions where I needed to direct epoxy at awkward locations. Metal pipes and flexible tubing come with the Composet kit. Metal pipe came in handy when injecting epoxy at an upwards angle and it can be carefully bent to an easier to use angle. Be careful not to crimp. Likewise, with the flexible tubing packaged in a ring, you can take advantage of its curve to access injection areas. Again, you will know this when you get your sidewall areas open and start mocking up how and where you will inject resin. I was skeptical of how hard this was going to be but quickly built-up confidence doing it.

All in all, I am extremely happy with my results – outside and inside. It’s not perfectly restored to brand new but it’s a whole lot better looking now.