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Old 05-03-2021, 04:56 PM   #41
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What is the difference between your option @ $36.75 from Amazon at time of posting than what others are using (LINK)? - Thanks!
It appears that folks are talking about using fixed bushings or only single axis if adjustable. The moogs are two axis adjustable allowing you to set caster and camber within the limitations of the combined bushing and sleeve.

This is what I have been running since 2018. The unit drives straight and it is easy to control. No abnormal tire wear either.
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Old 05-03-2021, 04:59 PM   #42
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Ducky, probably my bags were not as lucky as yours and fobagbob. I am glad to hear that yours are working fine. After my passenger side bags were crushed (photo attached doesn't give it justice), FR sent me a different design as I mentioned. I confirmed with a friend who bought the next year model to mine (2018/2019) that FR installed the updated design kit in his. I hope others with late models or FR may post and confirm which design they have.

I attached the installation manual for the older model and the new one.
Neither of the attachments are of what you had or what I have. I am not sure how a bag gets “crushed” unless maybe it had no air. But if yours is working well with the inboard style then all is well.
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Old 05-03-2021, 06:13 PM   #43
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Neither of the attachments are of what you had or what I have. I am not sure how a bag gets “crushed” unless maybe it had no air.
Duckogram, I attached the wrong PDF for the old bags (the one I had and you still have). Attached is the correct one. BTW, the new bags' PDF is correct and was sent to me by FR with their own hand writing on the 1st page (attached it again).

I went back to find better photos to show what I meant by "crushed". See attached. Air pressure was not a factor. I also found the shop diagnosis as follow:

"FOUND U-BOLTS LOOSE AT PASSENGER SIDE REAR CAUSING AIRBAG TO SHIFT OUT OF ITS BOTTOM BRACKET."

I hope this adds value and explain what happened.
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File Type: pdf older firestone bags W217602153.pdf (830.3 KB, 15 views)
File Type: pdf New Firestone Air Bags.pdf (9.45 MB, 31 views)
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Old 05-03-2021, 07:11 PM   #44
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Originally Posted by Duckogram View Post
It appears that folks are talking about using fixed bushings or only single axis if adjustable. The moogs are two axis adjustable allowing you to set caster and camber within the limitations of the combined bushing and sleeve.

This is what I have been running since 2018. The unit drives straight and it is easy to control. No abnormal tire wear either.
You're right, Ducky. Most are installing the adjustable single axis probably because of lower cost and/or lack of understanding of difference (myself included), but none to my knowledge is recommending the standard fixed bushings. I failed to clarify your valuable point in my original post, which I should done. When Harvard first posted about the issue 10 years ago, he recommended the 59400 ingallseng (link). I also attached the PDF for proper installation below.

BTW, in my 1st post here, I included two options similar to yours:
  1. SPC794 (SPC PN 24180) equivalent to the Ingalls (LINK)
  2. MOOG Caster/Camber Adjusting Bushing (LINK)
I wanted to have one of these two axis bushings installed, but unfortunately the shop went with this single axis option instead (LINK). I decided to give it a shot, and so far I am happy with the results. I hope Harvard will step in and give his take on the value of adding two axis vs. one axis as much as you did.

I truly appreciate your feedback, Duckogram. It greatly added value to the thread. Keep them coming. - Sam
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Old 05-04-2021, 09:31 AM   #45
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Duckogram, I attached the wrong PDF for the old bags (the one I had and you still have). Attached is the correct one. BTW, the new bags' PDF is correct and was sent to me by FR with their own hand writing on the 1st page (attached it again).

I went back to find better photos to show what I meant by "crushed". See attached. Air pressure was not a factor. I also found the shop diagnosis as follow:

"FOUND U-BOLTS LOOSE AT PASSENGER SIDE REAR CAUSING AIRBAG TO SHIFT OUT OF ITS BOTTOM BRACKET."

I hope this adds value and explain what happened.
Now I see the issue. That is truly ugly. It even looks like the bottom bracket may not be the correct one. It should not have been riding on top of the spring stack
bracket at all. Geesh!
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Old 05-14-2021, 11:19 AM   #46
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Great information and big thanks. Does anyone know any business capable of doing alignments like this in the Detroit area that they'd recommend?
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Old 05-17-2021, 04:32 PM   #47
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Will do. My appointment is for May 17th. Newbie wheel and alignment, New Bethlehem PA.
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My results from today’s alignment. Although not drastic sure made it drive 100% better. 70 miles one way home with one hand on the wheel.
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Old 05-23-2021, 05:32 PM   #48
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Before you had a little toe out, which will let it wander. Bad for straight line stability. They set it to a 16th toe in which will let drive straight and stable.
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Old 06-13-2021, 06:27 AM   #49
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Caster Change

Found a shop in New Orleans that added 2 degrees +caster to my Forester.
Picked up and test drove, it almost drives itself. We were ready to sell, it was so bad with the wondering. We are so excited.
Thanks to all that posted about caster adjustment.
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Old 06-13-2021, 03:12 PM   #50
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E450 caster bushings.

SPEC2020 - Glad it helped! Mine is drastically better now with
6 1/2 - 7* total caster. You can feel it takes effort to turn it.
Why Forest River doesnt do it from the start is sad!!!!
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Old 06-13-2021, 03:25 PM   #51
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SPEC2020 - Glad it helped! Mine is drastically better now with
6 1/2 - 7* total caster. You can feel it takes effort to turn it.
Why Forest River doesnt do it from the start is sad!!!!
Forest River builds the box on the chassis, they are not in the truck maintenance business. A better question might be whether they can order the chassis with caster already adjusted, but it woul raise costs as Ford may not build everything coming off the line exclusively for a motor home builder.
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Old 06-13-2021, 03:38 PM   #52
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Forest River builds the box on the chassis, they are not in the truck maintenance business. A better question might be whether they can order the chassis with caster already adjusted, but it woul raise costs as Ford may not build everything coming off the line exclusively for a motor home builder.
You’re right, Forest River is not in the truck chassis business. However, for example, if you order a full body paint option motorhome Forester or Sunseeker, FR sends it over to a paint shop for painting, since they apparently don’t do in house painting on those models. They could just as well send their coaches to an alignment shop, since FR doesn’t do alignments. But, they instead choose to ship misaligned, completed RVs to dealers, which get delivered to customers. The customer then bears the responsibility to get the front end aligned. This is a weird way of doing business, but it probably keeps FR’s expenses down.

I don’t see how Ford could send FR prealigned chassis, since the motorhome model overall weights differ, as well as their front/rear weight bias.
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Old 06-13-2021, 04:47 PM   #53
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I have wondered how the delivery drivers of the Class C’s survive the trip from FR to the dealer. It is a miserable, almost unsafe ride.
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Old 06-13-2021, 04:52 PM   #54
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They are used to driving tractors. Ford steering is a piece of cake in comparison.
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Old 06-13-2021, 05:00 PM   #55
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No motorhome will ever handle or drive as good as the cars people are comparing them too.

They’re basically a house on wheels of some sort. They’re as aerodynamic as a brick. They won’t handle the curves or bumps nearly as well as a vehicle that’s designed just to transport people as it’s primary function.

You want a bad ride? Try driving a school bus, and you’ll get to appreciate anything else on the road. Can’t tell you how many hundreds of thousands of miles I did.

Both my motorhomes have been a dream to drive by comparison.
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Old 06-13-2021, 05:53 PM   #56
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Found a shop in New Orleans that added 2 degrees +caster to my Forester.

Picked up and test drove, it almost drives itself. We were ready to sell, it was so bad with the wondering. We are so excited.

Thanks to all that posted about caster adjustment.


We live in Amite so not too far from you. Usually stay in Bayou Segnette SP during Mardi Gras. What is the name of the shop in N. O.? We have a 2017 3010DS.
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Old 06-14-2021, 08:26 AM   #57
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I am still not happy with the way my E450 handles. Still wanders and requires both hands on the wheel. I understand wind and passing trucks will cause some issues, but outside of those, why is it still so difficult to maintain a straight line?

This my current set up. Do I need to change something??

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Old 06-14-2021, 11:00 AM   #58
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I am still not happy with the way my E450 handles. Still wanders and requires both hands on the wheel. I understand wind and passing trucks will cause some issues, but outside of those, why is it still so difficult to maintain a straight line?

This my current set up. Do I need to change something??

Attachment 256959
I see a couple of things. First it needs a little more toe in, 1/16”.
Second the camber is causing it to push a little left. Needs more right camber. The caster should be higher on the right than the left.

I’m a retired mechanic, most alignments will require a couple try’s to get right. The problem is most guys will get it close enough and let it go. A short test drive is not going to experience what it’s really like to drive one of these. All they will find out is if it pulls and if the steering wheel is straight.

Here’s a wild ass thing to try if you have rear air bags. Fill them to 100psi the max. That should raise the back enough to make the caster less. Then drive it at highway speeds and notice how it feels. If I’m right, it should feel worse than before. Now let the air out to the minimum 5psi. This will increase the caster. It should drive more stable. There should be a noticeable difference between the two air bag amounts.

Take it back and tell them how it’s driving, show them what others alignments are that drive well. They should be able to make it drive better.
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Old 06-21-2021, 10:24 AM   #59
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Originally Posted by 5er_tom View Post
I am still not happy with the way my E450 handles. Still wanders and requires both hands on the wheel. I understand wind and passing trucks will cause some issues, but outside of those, why is it still so difficult to maintain a straight line?

This my current set up. Do I need to change something??

Attachment 256959



Add another degree of caster.
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Old 06-21-2021, 07:54 PM   #60
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Thanks RVRover and Harvard for the excellent post. I had my alignment on my 2017 Sunseeker (2016 E450) set up correctly by Ray's in South Fort Worth. Highly recommend. Talk to Mike.
https://www.rayschampionspring.com/
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