Forrester Super C ?

[allagante]

When I went over the 10,000 pass I was doing 45 mph. And of course the automatic transmission had shifted down just like a diesel would do. When I encounter a big or long hill I just get in the right lane and keep the rpms between 2500 and 3000 as it goes to lower gears and almost all freeway inclines are less than 6% it goes down to around 45 mph. I am now retired and in no hurry to get somewhere a couple of minutes faster, on the freeway I set it at 62mph and enjoy the sights. In the mountains going slower you see a lot more. On that road with the 10,000 foot pass in the Bighorn mountains I saw a lot of deer, some elk, and a moose, probably would not have seen them if I was driving as fast as I could and trying to keep it on the road.
Back to the comparison with our friend's thor four wind super C 35sk as far as mileage. Our 3051S get between 8 to 10 mile per gallon depending on speed and terrain and amount of ethanol in the gas T Best I got was on one portion of the trip bringing it home from picking it up was through Idaho. hey had what they called high altitude gas which contained no ethanol (real gas not available in Oregon) and I got 11 mpg. Worst was 7 mpg in South Dakota that had 15% ethanol (they have to do something with all that corn). Our friends four wind gets 10 to 12 mpg. So they average about 2 mpg better. Looking at gas diesel prices in Oregon, diesel seems to always sell for about $.40 oer gallon, at today's prices thaat $.40 is equal to 2 mpg for my 3051S so there is no fuel cost savings by having a diesel. And the $50K saving from not buying a smaller living space Super C is enough gas to drive to the moon and do not plan on driving that much. So I look at it as having free gas for as long as i have it. I could drive farther than the moon if I use Mexican overdrive by putting it in neutral on the downhills.

[HappyGuy]

We shopped long and hard to find our 3011 and there really isn't much we would change. If I was only worried about mileage I would not think twice about the 550. For me the power, towing and driveability are the only reasons to consider the change. The F550 has a step in height right at that of the existing E450. The rig is crash tested and drives similar to a standard truck so the Mrs. is more likely to drive it on the long runs. The existing Freightliner Super Cs are more like a big rig with the higher step in height etc. If I was looking at one of those I would go to an A and get the open cabin, spin around chairs and engine in the back. However, the 550 is serviceable by multiple local Ford dealers while I would have to drive for service for the larger chassis assuming that any of the local shops would be willing to even look at a motorhome. That would be a big problem for me since I lack the upsized tools and muscle needed to work on these hawses beyond the simple oil, belts and hose maintenance.

So after all of that babbling. I like the 550 because it is right sized, powerful, serviceable by multiple dealers, accepts my existing shop tools and could be made to accept our existing floor plan

I started the thread hoping to hear that the outgoing E series chassis was going to be replaced with the F (450 or 550) chassis which would make a diesel model much more doable even if Forrest River initially started with a gas model to keep costs down.

Oh, one more BIG thing that I like about the diesel would be the ability to use the truck lanes when towing the toad and filling up on the road.

[carlb]

Happyguy, the reading that I have done shows that Ford will continue the commercial versions of the E series of vans for RV and commercial truck builds for a few more years. I guess the new Transit has to build a domestic fan base first and likely increase some of its capacities.

[HappyGuy]

Hey the delay in the discontinuation of the E series gives FR time to convert over doesn't it?

[MikeRP]

This is always an interesting discussion, cost versus benefit. My 3010ds Sunseeker has surprised me towing my 2014 Grand Cherokee. You know it's back there but it tows it easily.

My experience is that the v10 breaks in and tows easier as you approach 10000 miles.

Now we all would like unlimited power and I am not saying anything about someone who made the diesel choice. Capital cost is higher, and repairs can be much higher, just check the cost of injectors.

One doesn't want to underestimate the V10, its one of the most reliable motors in Fords fleet. The tranny is amazing and it has plenty of capability even up to its max capacity.

However, I'm always thinking of my next coach and we are debating entry level diesel class a or high end gas class a.

I'd like to buy a diesel but I'm wondering if it's worth it. Remember when you are camped it's all about the interior.






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[bclemens]

Originally Posted by HappyGuy

Hey the delay in the discontinuation of the E series gives FR time to convert over doesn't it?

Convert over to what?

[HappyGuy]

From the E series chassis to the F series chassis of course!

[bemmerz3]

First everyone is overlooking several advantages of the diesel over the gasoline that is that the diesel will generally last three to five time longer than the gasoline. In fact Cummins disassembled one of their diesels from a RAM with 500,000 miles and all the parts were within tolerance. Therefore if you factor in three to five engine replacements you more than have paid for the difference in price of the diesel over the gasoline. The point is that the higher RPMs represent excessive wear on the engine and subsequently an early failure. Second, you state that the comparison was the Thor 35SK which measures 35 feet correction the 35SK measures nearly 37 feet which the 33SW measures 35 feet these specs are directly from the data sheets. I enjoy the extra room that two slides offer and the storage space where I can carry an air compressor and tools for emergencies however as a Good Sam's member I have emergency roadside service and the interior room is needed not for the two of us but we have eight little furry companions that can now travel with us. Third, you do not mention the percent grade of the 10,000 foot pass and what was the elevation at which you started 8,000 feet 7,000 feet where 8,000 would only be a 2,000 foot rise in elevation. A rise in 2,000 feet elevation given over twenty miles would represent a 1.8% grade which is calculated rise over run or distance where on grades of even 5% would not force a downshift of the transmission on a diesel because of the significantly higher torque rating. I also enjoy the beauty that this great country offers and for that reason I drive a motor home however, once I reach my destination I prefer to set up the motorhome and leave it and visit the local attraction with my Wrangler which is easy to park and easily gets around. I can understand peoples reluctance to spend the additional money up front especially if you are on a fixed income, retired. However, the price difference was irrelevant and as I previously stated I would have gotten into the class C some time ago had they been offered in a diesel. I don't like the class A's because I feel like I am on display like a fish in an aquarium with that big windshield.

[MikeRP]

I completely agree with that last statement. I like the traditional feel of driving a truck that a class c of whatever model give you.

I also before I get into some of your thoughts, would like you to know that I seriously love diesels, have owned Dodge diesel trucks and I love the Cummins.

I also am definitely considering a Dynamax or even a four winds Super C. But I'm going into this eyes wide open. As this subject has been debated a lot, there is a guy over in RV.net that has many 3/4 ton vans he uses for work tow vehicles that have over 350000 miles and some approaching 500000 with no problems. The v10 is really a fine motor.

Also remember, and this is my problem, is that a set of injectors can cost you as much as a v10 replacement engine. Look it up. If money is no object, I'd go diesel hands down. But my brother heavy diesel equipment guru and mechanic has told me the downsides. For instance, I'm told the cab on a Ford has to be removed to replace the injectors. Tough assignment on a class c. They have it worked out in Ford Super Duty Trucks but I'd be interested to know if they have it worked out for a Class C. Maybe you know?

Point is there are trade offs no matter which way you go. I haven't decided what's right for me and I don't want to make a mistake, the next one will be my last Coach.

I don't begrudge anyone's decision here but make sure you understand what you are getting into either way.

Mike


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[bclemens]

Durability is great and all, but the E450 is rated to 100,000miles with no major service.

We're talking about RV's...I'd be curious to if anyone had a non-rental RV that was over 100,000 miles.

[nicholsonv]

If Ford dumped the 2 valve engine and used the 3 valve in all class C's that extra horsepower and torque would be a nice upgrade.

In the class A's, a FRED with the 6.7 liter might be interesting. My 337 is a F550 chassis so there shouldn't be a big engineering exercise to make it into diesel powered vehicle.

[bemmerz3]

Mike,

I am well aware of the costs associated with the replacement of an injector, however, an injector failure in this day in age is rare. I know two people who have the 2000 RAM with the Cummins diesel, in the fifteen years of ownership one of the two had to have an injector replaced which was covered under warranty. I also am a fan of the RAM Cummins In fact I own a 2011 Big Horn with the Cummins. My son who works for Halliburton has yet to see an issue with an injector in either their Ford trucks or the Cummins diesels which are used in their equipment no injector failures. The last two years our vacations took us across the mountains of Wyoming, Colorado, Oregon, and Washington including Snoqualmie Pass, Deadman Pass, along with several long steep grades northbound in I-82 pulling an 11,000 pound Montana fifth wheel with the my RAM Cummins. I set the cruise control at 65 which is the maximum speed for ST rated tires and granted over the steepest of grades the truck did downshift but the maximum RPMs was 2600 @ 65mph rather than 45mph. Are you familiar with product failure behavior which is represent by the bathtub curve where your failure rate is high during the products early life which is generally your warranty period afterwards the failure rate levels off to a low level where it remains until the product reaches its end of design life. So the majority of these failures greater than 90% will occur early on or at the end of the design life. That is why almost every manufacturer offers an extended warranty for a cost as it is free money for them and there is countless research that supports this statement. Those two vans to which you refer are approaching the end of their design life how much is spent on maintenance to keep them roadworthy. Also, those two vans are not loaded to near capacity as are the class C RVs. If you think about it the farming industry, the marine industry and the heavy transportation industry all use diesel under adverse conditions particularly the farming and marine industry and there does not exist and major trend of injector failures. In fact the majority of the class A's diesel pushers use the Cummins 6.7 diesel. So to answer your question yes I did consider all possibilities and the positive far outweighed the negative. As for the one who posted that a gasoline engine does not require any major maintenance until 100,000 miles there are no major maintenance requirements for a diesel. Oil changes @ 15,000 miles what is the interval for oil changes of a gasoline engine 7,500 miles so his statement was not based on facts rather he just made a statement which he cannot substantiate.

I would have preferred that the Super C was be offered on the RAM 5500 chassis with the Cummins however for some reason Ford chassis is what is preferred better price or what who knows. One final point concerning the lifting of the cab to work of the Ford diesel they would have to do likewise to replace the V10 on the E450 and the E350 van chassis. Another, argument for the RAM 5500 chassis.

[bclemens]

Well, I'm pretty sure Dynamax is working on something with the F550. If they do, we probably won't any time soon.

[bemmerz3]

They already have.

Isata F-Series by Dynamax - Features

The link above shows the Dynamax super c in the F550 chassis with either the 3 valve V10 or the 6.7L diesel

[bclemens]

Originally Posted by bemmerz3

They already have.

Isata F-Series by Dynamax - Features

The link above shows the Dynamax super c in the F550 chassis with either the 3 valve V10 or the 6.7L diesel

I meant something more comparable to the Thor Super C or a Forester type build. That Isata is a whole different animal.