gambling on my 12 volt system

[Herk7769]

OK,

First you need to know what the lights are telling you, before you go crazy buying stuff you don't need.

4 lights - "C" means the battery has charging voltage either currently on it (charging voltage from generator, shore power, or truck) or a surface charge remaining from having recently received charging voltage and the voltage is still above 12.7 volts. Battery is charging.

3 lights - "G" means the surface charge has been removed (takes a few seconds or minutes after charging voltage is removed) and the battery is currently above 50% capacity remaining or 12.1 volts. Battery is good to go.

2 lights - "F" means the battery is in trouble (25% capacity remaining or 11.6 volts) and should be recharged immediately to prevent permanent loss of capacity.

1 light - "L" means the battery is deader than Elvis (above 0% capacity or 6 volts needed to fire the LED) and may or may not take a charge at all when connected to shore power. If it does take a charge, battery's capacity is permanently impaired.


Discussions about RV batterys and displays need FACTS not folk lore to troubleshoot.

While it may only take a few hours to get it above 50% due to the high charge rate a low battery can take without damage, it can take MANY (over 24) hours to replace capacity up to 100% due to the lower charge rates needed to prevent excessive heat buildup at rates above what the filling battery can stand.

Smart chargers charge in stages with decreasing current as the increasing battery voltage provides back pressure during charging.

[Herk7769]

Talking about charging an RV battery via truck alternator is also important.

Since the truck and RV battery are in electrical "parallel", the alternator will see an average of the voltages on the system when determining the charging current to provide to the battery system.

This is explained in the attached PDF about why a truck alternator is great at topping off a minimally discharged RV battery, but is terrible for recharging a low or dead one.

[babock]

Originally Posted by Hoglou

Thanks, are you using a 712 running dual batts in paralell?

Correct. Mine happen to be lithium but that applies for any type battery bank. The monitor knows nothing of the battery configuration.

[Herk7769]

No matter what display you have, they all use the same logic for lights.

My current panel has 10 vertical LED segments, but the display lights multiple segments at a time as the voltage changes in 4 "steps".

[Garrette]

In the mean time. The converter is just a battery charger.
I replaced mine with a progressive 4 stage. The battery wizard is just a way to monitor what the charger is doing and by pressing the button, it can be forced into fast or bulk mode. Played with the little wizard for a bit but now, I just leave it alone.
I went with the Progressive Dynamics PD9260CV with wizard from Amazon. Installed in 2015. My charger is a stand-a-lone unit mounted in the wet bay. Yours may be integrated into the power center. These chargers are really smart. The automatically bulk charge and maintain to keep the batteries healthy. I leave my Sunseeker plugged in all the time without issue.
Next, I went battery shopping. I wanted 12volt, AGM, and increased amp hours or at least as much as I could get. After much review and pricing and to learn, I chose Duracells group 31 deep cycle from Sams. Not saying they are better, just what I chose based on price. The group 31's just barely fit in my 3170 step well.
The batteries are 3years old and did well on our 4momth post retirement adventure this year. No issues with the Walmart/Cracker Barrel overnights. Light, TV, fridge and a little heat. Gets chilly in Maine.
I wanted reliable overnight 12volt power, for me this fit the bill. I do monitor my battery's with a cheap 12volt plug in that reads volts only but do not discharge lower that 12volts before charging. I am thinking about using either Trimetric or Victron to better monitor my batteries.
I have been considering Battelborn Lithium because they have their own built in controller and can receive a charge from a standard charger, otherwise, you will need to make sure the charger will do lithium. With lithium you can discharge the battery deeper than you can a wet cell and lithium charges back faster. Great for solar.
Hope this helps
Roadmap, Replace your converter/charger, replace your batteries, get little better monitoring, that is it. Nothing else to mod. Oh, you like to tinker so get the wizard. Plugs in using an RJ45 Jack and you can play with the button.

[TitanMike]

Originally Posted by Garrette

In the mean time. The converter is just a battery charger.
I replaced mine with a progressive 4 stage. The battery wizard is just a way to monitor what the charger is doing and by pressing the button, it can be forced into fast or bulk mode. Played with the little wizard for a bit but now, I just leave it alone.

I too replaced my WFCO converter with a PD9260 with Charge Wizard "dongle".

I force the converter into Boost Mode whenever I have my generator running. It will force a greater charge rate which can reduce overall generator run time. When battery reaches approximately 90% charge the regular charging profile will resume so the battery isn't damaged.

Usually when starting to recharge a battery it's cool enough the higher rate won't cause it to gas excessively which is a sign it's being over-charged.

NOTE: Not recommended to do this if the battery is extremely cold (freezing temps) or if really hot (mid summer temps). On those occasions just let the Charge Wizard do it's thing when the Generator is running.

[Hoglou]

Both batts fully charged. Needed a newer meter so I picked up a southwire 21050T clamp meter at lowes so now I can ID the 12 volt load sources on the coach when it drys out a bit. I am betting the bigfoot jacks are the big killer, followed by the king dome satt. Moving to improving the coach charger then add a victron 7 series moniter over the winter. Prepping for AGM.

My shop charger is a 4 stage but from what I read the 9855 is not. Garrette & TitanMike, can I assume your at 30 amp and the unit you pulled out the was the wfco-9855 and also kept the stock power distribution (wfco 8930)?

Was the PD9260 a direct swap or were there mods for the install?

Thanks for your insights..

[TitanMike]

Originally Posted by Hoglou

Both batts fully charged. Needed a newer meter so I picked up a southwire 21050T clamp meter at lowes so now I can ID the 12 volt load sources on the coach when it drys out a bit. I am betting the bigfoot jacks are the big killer, followed by the king dome satt. Moving to improving the coach charger then add a victron 7 series moniter over the winter. Prepping for AGM.

My shop charger is a 4 stage but from what I read the 9855 is not. Garrette & TitanMike, can I assume your at 30 amp and the unit you pulled out the was the wfco-9855 and also kept the stock power distribution (wfco 8930)?

Was the PD9260 a direct swap or were there mods for the install?

Thanks for your insights..

I merely removed the 8955 converter module. Disconnected 120v input wires from power bus, disconnected 12v wires from distribution panel, and made new connections to PD9260. The PD converter comes with a 120v plug in pigtail. I cut off, stripped wires, and connected to 120v terminals. I connected 12 v side using old wires I'd merely cut off at the PCB on the 8955 unit.

The 9260 unit fits in the vacated space but the cover of the 8955 power center needs some trimming on some plastic fins to make ti fit without bowing out about 1/8" or so

I added a #4 awg wire from converter output to batteries and upsized ground wires both at converter and battery ends.

An alternative would be to install the pd9260 in a compartment as close as possible to the batteries and then extend the 120v wiring from power panel to new location. This Cuts voltage drop in charging circuit so converter charges battery at max rate longer. I wouldn't recommend just plugging new converter to a nearby outlet as it can draw up to 1,000 watts. That's why converter has it's own circuit.

[Hoglou]

Excellent info. The 8930 distribution box in my coach has a designated 110 outlet for the converter in the back, so I may be able to skip that step. I have previously x2 enlarged and screened the venting hole for the converter that resides in the right rear bay. I will leave the new one there in the same spot. The cables idea is interesting.

[babock]

I got rid of my WFCO and mounted a PD right next to my battery bank. No voltage drop that way.

[Hoglou]

Moving to under the cabinet would allow for a shorter (and thicker) wire run, and free up bay storage space. Interesting...

[TitanMike]

Originally Posted by babock

I got rid of my WFCO and mounted a PD right next to my battery bank. No voltage drop that way.

Did you extend the 120V line or just attach to a nearby outlet?

[babock]

Originally Posted by TitanMike

Did you extend the 120V line or just attach to a nearby outlet?

Extend the 120v line. Uses the original breaker which is dedicated to the converter.

Bad idea to use a nearby outlet for many reasons.

[Hoglou]

Not to answer out of turn, but I would continue to use the ac outlet on the distribution box currently used for the converter and just add the 3 extra feet of line needed,(maybe go up a guage on the feed line from the distribution box). I am like'n the relocation mod. In my coach it would go under the cabinet next to the step, pretty open area I may not need to vent.

[Hoglou]

I was typing while babock was responding, timing error..

[babock]

Yep. Plus I like to keep my converter turned off most of the time it's plugged in at home. I have lithiums so I store them discharged.

[Hoglou]

If I read it correctly the PD draws about half the ac amps then the WF but 10 + higher dc. Nice trick..

[TitanMike]

Originally Posted by Hoglou

If I read it correctly the PD draws about half the ac amps then the WF but 10 + higher dc. Nice trick..

On power draw at the same output the WFCO and PD's are pretty much equal. A 60 amp WFCO is going to draw the same power as a PD at 60 amp output.

Where the PD's excel in my opinion is construction quality and the charging algorithm which has four full cycles as well as the separate "dongle" that allows one to force into any charging mode.

[wyz3rd]

Originally Posted by Scrapper

When I was in high school electronics class I had to write a paper with the supporting numbers why it would or would not work to use a 12vdc motor to turn a 12vdc generator. 1971-72 is too far back to remember all the specifics but I could not prove it would work, only that it doesn't.

It's called the Law of Conservation of Energy. Energy can neither be created nor destroyed.

[soonerfan1962]

My battery always seems to run down....spoke with my local rv repair guy and he said go to two 6 volt batteries like in golf carts...they last longer but expensive