gambling on my 12 volt system

[Hoglou]

So we are on the road spending three nights at a (casino) campground. We notice that our battery indicator (the cheapo on the generator panel) showed 2 dots of 4 last night. We only watched a little tv (12 volt), run the frig on shore power (assuming it still draws 12 volts anyway), and have the lp sensor pulling it normal 12 volts. We have only been using oil heat (120 volt), and120 volts lights..

So this am during coffee we had only one red dot , the 12 volt tv would not stay on, and the few remaining non led lights were very dim.. Figured the converter cashed out, but I can deal with that. So we continue with our plans today and got back to the coach 11 hours later but now we are at 3 red dots and the lights are bright.

I will pull the one year old batteries tomarrow when I get home (close by) to see if they are electrically damaged. Never had this problem before, so place your bets; batts, converter, the brown fuse confusion box, or what is behind the little door on the steps?

I guess I am ready to go AGM batts, ditch the waco 9855 converter, and move into a 4 stage charging system... anyone have a road map for this? Is the 9855 the sole charging entity? Does the brown fuse box play a role in charging states? And what is a charge wizard, and do I need one?

Who knows this posting may offer me some luck after leaving the casino..

[JLeising]

My converter will occasionally trip the circuit breaker that feeds it. Since all the other 120 volt devices work, and all the 12 volt devices work (off the battery), this tripped converter breaker can be hard to notice (on our Solera, only the converter and one 120 volt outlet, which we rarely use, are on that breaker).
Solar or the engine alternator will charge the house batteries with the breaker tripped; shore and generator power will not.
FYI
Jim

[Shredder]

I'm going to bet it's the switch by the door. Inverter works as it charged the batteries back up. Did you turn the main cutoff switch off and back on when you noticed the batteries where not charging?

[Scrapper]

Originally Posted by Shredder

I'm going to bet it's the switch by the door. Inverter works as it charged the batteries back up. Did you turn the main cutoff switch off and back on when you noticed the batteries where not charging?

How can the Inverter charge the batteries when it takes the 12vdc from the batteries and inverts it to 120vac? Your Converter will have to take that 120vac and convert it back to 12vdc to charge the batteries. Since there are power loss in both the inversion to 120vac and conversion to 12vdc, charging the batteries will only lose power, never gain. If you have a combination Converter/Inverter it still would not work as the 12vdc is inverted to 120vac, then back to 12vdc.

When I was in high school electronics class I had to write a paper with the supporting numbers why it would or would not work to use a 12vdc motor to turn a 12vdc generator. 1971-72 is too far back to remember all the specifics but I could not prove it would work, only that it doesn't.

[emm-dee]

Originally Posted by Scrapper

How can the Inverter charge the batteries when it takes the 12vdc from the batteries and inverts it to 120vac? If you have a combination Converter/Inverter it still would not work as the 12vdc is inverted to 120vac, then back to 12vdc. Since there are power loss in both the inversion to 120vac and conversion to 12vdc, charging the batteries will only lose power, never gain.

Pretty sure they meant converter, not inverter. Glad we don’t have to deal with a TRU (transformer rectifier unit). That would really add to the confusion.

[Hoglou]

Shedder, I did not do that. But when I relicate the problem at home I will. So what is the pending theory?

For the wire heads out there will replacing the 9855 converter with a four stage complete the change, or are there components else where needed to complete the upgrade?

[babock]

Originally Posted by Scrapper

How can the Inverter charge the batteries when it takes the 12vdc from the batteries and inverts it to 120vac? Your Converter will have to take that 120vac and convert it back to 12vdc to charge the batteries. Since there are power loss in both the inversion to 120vac and conversion to 12vdc, charging the batteries will only lose power, never gain. If you have a combination Converter/Inverter it still would not work as the 12vdc is inverted to 120vac, then back to 12vdc.

When I was in high school electronics class I had to write a paper with the supporting numbers why it would or would not work to use a 12vdc motor to turn a 12vdc generator. 1971-72 is too far back to remember all the specifics but I could not prove it would work, only that it doesn't.

There are MANY inverters that also charge batteries.

[Scrapper]

Originally Posted by babock

There are MANY inverters that also charge batteries.

I know, they have a built-in converter and will not charge the batteries unless the RV is on shore/generator power. I was just trying to point out that members need to use the correct names so they don't confuse those new to the RV world.


emm-dee is not as confused as he wants others to think.

[Shredder]

My bad wrong word shoot me sorry to all who i may have messed up.

maybe i should have said the doohickey that runs from the big black wire you plug in to the wooden post in the ground or should i say earth to be correct. it takes the electrical waves and makes the radio voltage to charge the d cell batteries under your step.

Please tune to the right radio station and it should charge the lead and water squares.

[MikeRP]

Pretty soon you won’t need all these wires, we’ll just hook into the campground Tesla.🙈😎

[5picker]

Originally Posted by MikeRP

Pretty soon you won’t need all these wires, we’ll just hook into the campground Tesla.🙈😎

Oh yea baby!... camping spots will have wireless electrical generating pads embedded in each site. They will provide shore power and recharge your 12v storage sources (notice I didn't say battery(ies) all without having to connect any cord whatsoever. Pull in and start camping! Flux capacitor sold separately.

[pdqparalegal1]

This makes my teeth hurt! ������

[5picker]

Originally Posted by pdqparalegal1

This makes my teeth hurt! ������

LOL, especially if you have metal fillings!

[Hoglou]

Well I got home and walked back to check the four red idiot dots and all four shined. Gezzz now I only really know the engine alternator will charge them full within 5 hours of run time. At home I pulled the (two) batteries and load tested them, all is well there to. So I hooked up the batts to my new handy dandy 3amp battery tender I just bought at Costco ($29!) for the X mark mower and it went to storage mode in about 20 minutes.

I think next up I am going to unhook shore power and do a run down load test to about 50% with the furnace. Then see how long it is to full batt recovery. Next move back to the tender to valid going into the maintenace mode. Time I guess to move into the 90s and get me a solidstate battery tester, and retire the hydo. Prob the suner unit for under 50$. Other suggestions? Keeping the AGM track open.

On my want list is a 4 stage charger, and real dash mounted batt info/condition. Need help in spending my money, jump in.

Still no under lying issues found, kind a like what the stealerships says "could not duplicate, but please pick up your invoice at the window". How many of you been there before.

[babock]

Originally Posted by Hoglou

Well I got home and walked back to check the four red idiot dots and all four shined.

That tells you absolutely nothing. Measure with a voltmeter after the battery sits with no load for a couple hours.

If you really want to know how much current is going into the batteries while towing, buy a battery monitor that measures current with a bluetooth option like the Vivtron BMV-712 and you will actually know the health and current going in/out of your battery.

[pmsherman]

When it was less than two years old, I suspected the house batteries in my 2011 Georgetown were damaged and took them in for testing. A local auto parts store tested them and pronounced them as good. I then took one to the nearby distribution center for a battery manufacturer and was told that an automotive tester can give a false good reading for a deep cycle house battery. They had an automatic tester for deep cycle batteries but the only employee trained to use it wasn't working that day.

I took the battery home and built a manual deep cycle battery tester. It took me six hours to test the battery and I discovered that the battery capacity was less than half of its rated capacity. When I presented the results of the test to my dealer, they replaced both house batteries under warranty.

Phil

[Shredder]

Sorry i just wanted to add one other thing to try.

I too have pushed the button which is in a row of 5 of them one for black, grey, water, lpg and battery.

I have noticed if you push the buttons it reads one or 2 lights but if you push that little button left or right while pushing it in it will give you different readings. its almost like it gets a better connection while pushing it sideways a bit.

I take the highest reading and i use that.

[Hoglou]

Thanks babock. I will look into the vivtron, assume it works for deep cycle. Do you have this item installed? With parellel batteries I would think you would need two.

So charged over night, let sit unhooked for about 4 hours. Got 12.99 and 13.02 volts from the two.

[babock]

Originally Posted by Hoglou

Thanks babock. I will look into the vivtron, assume it works for deep cycle. Do you have this item installed? With parellel batteries I would think you would need two.

So charged over night, let sit unhooked for about 4 hours. Got 12.99 and 13.02 volts from the two.

Yes I have it installed. To me, it's a must have item if you dry camp at all. You just need one.

[Hoglou]

Thanks, are you using a 712 running dual batts in paralell?