Surge protector really needed?

[JohnD10]

Originally Posted by DieselDrax

Ah, but that MH doesn't have those built-in. Maybe some do, and maybe some have them offered as options, but more than likely most MH's don't have them, including the DPs.

And you know this how?

[DieselDrax]

Originally Posted by JohnD10

And you know this how?

Just look on the websites or download the brochures and look at standards, options, etc. This would be a good marketing item if offered. Also, a web search for their RV model and "surge protector" brought up forum posts asking which surge/EMS to install since it doesn't have one.

[JohnD10]

I walked through several large monster MH's at LeMesa RV in Quartszite last January and when I looked at the electrical 'cabinet' (panel for most of us in towables)...

It looked like the cockpit of a Stealth bomber in there.

They all had digital readouts and switches of all kinds for power stuff like I've never seen in an RV before...

Unlike nothing I've ever seen in a TT or 5'ver.

[DieselDrax]

Originally Posted by JohnD10

I walked through several large monster MH's at LeMesa RV in Quartszite last January and when I looked at the electrical 'cabinet' (panel for most of us in towables)...

It looked like the cockpit of a Stealth bomber in there.

They all had digital readouts and switches of all kinds for power stuff like I've never seen in an RV before...

Unlike nothing I've ever seen in a TT or 5'ver.

A Thor 33.3 isn't a "large monster MH" that costs multiple hundreds of thousands of dollars like their Tuscany. Go look at the electrical features of each one, the Palazzo has no EMS or surge listed. The Tuscany has both listed.

Your comparison is like saying a monster luxury 5th wheel has something that an 18ft ultralite doesn't and assuming all trailers would/should have the same stuff. You know better.

[JohnD10]

Originally Posted by DieselDrax

Your comparison is like saying a monster luxury 5th wheel has something that an 18ft ultralite doesn't and assuming all trailers would/should have the same stuff. You know better.

Not to start an argument here...

But a monster luxury 5th-wheeler WILL come from the factory with a lot of stuff that an 18-foot ultralite doesn't come with.

My 5'ver is an ultralite model, and it definately lacks a lot of luxuries that the bigger, heavier and much more expensive 5'vers come stock with.

[formerFR]

Originally Posted by JohnD10

I'm willing to bet that big MH you have has a surge protector and power conditioner built-in..

nope, neither... so goes your 'assumption' that just because something is 'bigger' that it must have something your's doesn't....

these ancillary devices are simply that, extras... if they were 'so' important to safety, and rigs potentially 'burning down', or because air conditioner manufacturers might eliminate their warranties because of potential voltage variances, then the RV manufacturers would already mandate that these 'protection' devices be installed in every RV, no matter the size or money, just like your C02 or Propane detector, or fire extinguisher.

the reality is that these 'worries' have so little possibility that they don't rise to the requirement that everyone 'have to have' these devices - experience shows that you can plug in and camp at hundreds or thousands of different places and not have any issues. Your electronics and appliances and electrical panels are not as sensitive to these 'concerns' as you are imagining.

but, like most other things in life, if it makes you able to sleep better at night, then it's worth it... but to demean others who don't, or demand that others are 'ignorant' because they don't do exactly as you might, is over-the-top. Spend the money if you wish, and let others travel and camp as they wish.

[Maggot]

I am a bit confused. I have been reading on the EMS deices. From what I see they have monitoring capability and will shut off in low voltage. That is all I can tell it does more than a nice surge device.



Am I being too simple with my observations?


An EMS is not a power conditioner and is not a UPS. I am not sure I catch the value of this over a nice one hit surge.



I will most likely put a surge on my 50amp service but unless there is something I am missing my current opinion on EMS is it is fancy surge with a screen that will shut off with a low volt situation.


Maybe I posted this in the wrong spot?

[ben31]

Exactly what is wrong in society today. Too many people feel that if someone disagrees with them, they are an ignoramus and need to be berated or, better yet, silenced. People, we can disagree and still get along. I think some people are forgetting their meds!

The original post said he bought one, but wanted to know if it is absolutely necessary. The answer is no. The electrical system WILL WORK WITHOUT IT! Is it good to have? Yes, it will protect your investment. Period.

[Iwannacamp]

Originally Posted by formerFR

nope, neither... so goes your 'assumption' that just because something is 'bigger' that it must have something your's doesn't....

these ancillary devices are simply that, extras... if they were 'so' important to safety, and rigs potentially 'burning down', or because air conditioner manufacturers might eliminate their warranties because of potential voltage variances, then the RV manufacturers would already mandate that these 'protection' devices be installed in every RV, no matter the size or money, just like your C02 or Propane detector, or fire extinguisher.

the reality is that these 'worries' have so little possibility that they don't rise to the requirement that everyone 'have to have' these devices - experience shows that you can plug in and camp at hundreds or thousands of different places and not have any issues. Your electronics and appliances and electrical panels are not as sensitive to these 'concerns' as you are imagining.

but, like most other things in life, if it makes you able to sleep better at night, then it's worth it... but to demean others who don't, or demand that others are 'ignorant' because they don't do exactly as you might, is over-the-top. Spend the money if you wish, and let others travel and camp as they wish.

O.K. You are obviously well educated so I test you not. I have about the cheapest 5er they make, but that's OK as it meets my needs and specifications. I had a 50 Progressive HW unit on my old unit. I pulled this out after the unit got totaled to put in the next. We picked up our unit and camped back..4 nights. I had not installed the EMS yet, but I did carry it with me. The first park we stopped at... no problems. The second park when I plugged up(noting except maybe converter on that I knew of. Sizzled like I was pulling 50-75 amps. Not sparked, but sizzled. I immediately unplugged and used my 30 amp adapter with no further issues. The next park was at a COE and it was dead on one leg of the cord(no light on one side). I had to run an extension to the next pedestal or move. The next one was Loretta Lynn's place... no problems.

My point is that my EMS would have prevented any possible damage from those pedestals had any tried to harm the RV. I confirmed in my mind what I already knew... EMS required. YMMV

[BandJCarm]

Originally Posted by Maggot

I am a bit confused. I have been reading on the EMS deices. From what I see they have monitoring capability and will shut off in low voltage. That is all I can tell it does more than a nice surge device.



Am I being too simple with my observations?


An EMS is not a power conditioner and is not a UPS. I am not sure I catch the value of this over a nice one hit surge.



I will most likely put a surge on my 50amp service but unless there is something I am missing my current opinion on EMS is it is fancy surge with a screen that will shut off with a low volt situation.

Maybe I posted this in the wrong spot?

Or bad ground situation.
Or low frequency situation.
Or high frequency situation.
Or accidental 240v
Or..........well, lots of things.


Here is what you need to read:


https://www.progressiveindustries.ne...ed-comparisons


That lists all the differences in all of them.


I used mine twice in last few months. One with a weird "high frequency" situation at the Easton power pedestal, the one with the 'night light' on top. When it came on, the unit hit High Frequency and shut me down for 2 minutes +. Turns out the pedestal was grounded for the 50 amp plug, but not the ancillary 110v 20amp connection.



Second was Terre Haute KOA. Full power on Leg 1 of 50 amp, but NO power on Leg 2 of 50 amp. I failed to plug my EMS portable in, like an idiot. But after figuring it out, I plugged it in, and it said "Low Voltage". No duh! If I had plugged it in to start with I could have moved to a different site with about 4 hours less hassle!!!


These things are worth their weight in gold. They are NOT 'extra meaningless stuff to buy'.


But buy one or don't. Just please don't argue that they are not worth much.

[Maggot]

When was I arguing about anything? Why would you quote me as saying meaningless? Kind of a cheap shot putting quoted words in my text actually.

[JohnD10]

Every time I plug my 5'ver in...even at my house...the surge protector is on the cord.

Matter of fact, I always leave it attached to the cord!

I never remove it.

My rig is 30 amp...

[BandJCarm]

Originally Posted by Maggot

When was I arguing about anything? Why would you quote me as saying meaningless? Kind of a cheap shot putting quoted words in my text actually.

Weren't you the one that said it was an overpriced unit, not worth the money? You said it only had Low Voltage protection as the only difference in it and a Surge Protector. I was just pointing that out, and rebutting it.

That's what I was answering. No cheap shots. My shots are all expensive.

[DieselDrax]

Originally Posted by JohnD10

Not to start an argument here...



But a monster luxury 5th-wheeler WILL come from the factory with a lot of stuff that an 18-foot ultralite doesn't come with.



My 5'ver is an ultralite model, and it definately lacks a lot of luxuries that the bigger, heavier and much more expensive 5'vers come stock with.

That was exactly my point which you missed. You assumed that a smaller, less expensive DP MH would have something that a “monster luxury MH” came with. You’re making my point for me.

Why would the smaller, less expensive DP have everything that the monster luxury MH would have? It won’t. That’s the point. You made a false assumption.

[itat]

Originally Posted by Maggot

When was I arguing about anything? Why would you quote me as saying meaningless? Kind of a cheap shot putting quoted words in my text actually.

I think everyone agrees it's not mandatory and in a perfect world they wouldn't be needed. An EMS is insurance against electrical issues from your power source (shore power or generator). The question everyone can ask of themselves is what is the level of risk and how much insurance do you want to have in place to mitigate the risks?

My personal experience is that I didn't realize how poor the power was at the campgrounds we frequent until I had the EMS installed and it started cutting power due to low voltage. For me and where we camp, I want one. In fact, I've found low voltage to be a problem frequently enough that I bought a Hughes Autoformer to boost voltage.

[DieselDrax]

Originally Posted by Maggot

I am a bit confused. I have been reading on the EMS deices. From what I see they have monitoring capability and will shut off in low voltage. That is all I can tell it does more than a nice surge device.



Am I being too simple with my observations?


An EMS is not a power conditioner and is not a UPS. I am not sure I catch the value of this over a nice one hit surge.



I will most likely put a surge on my 50amp service but unless there is something I am missing my current opinion on EMS is it is fancy surge with a screen that will shut off with a low volt situation.


Maybe I posted this in the wrong spot?

I think maybe you missed a number of features that an EMS provides over a surge protector.

Give this a read - https://www.progressiveindustries.ne...ed-comparisons

Specifically, the models that begin with "EMS".

It does much more than just protect against surges and low voltage.

[NMWildcat]

Several members of our group fell prey to all the advertising and bought the prescribed EMS. Within two years, they had all stopped using them. Why? Multiple false readings causing unnecessary power disconnects. They were tired of calling the park manager, only to find out there was no fixable problem.
So either the EMS was too sensitive, or fluctuations in power were slight, short lived, and not enough to cause real problems.
So I'll just stick to testing unfamiliar power with my meter before I plug in. If my RV gets zapped at some point, that's what insurance is for. I really don't want or need more crap to monitor. KISS.

[-lenny-]

We were in the "Its not needed" camp for over a decade, and we never had or met anyone that had a problem. Then this winter while in Yuma, we met a guy just watching TV in the RV park gym. Chatted with him a bit, and a power issue had ruined a bunch (not sure if all) of his electrical appliances in his new Montana. We ordered the Progressive Industries EMS thats same day.

A couple months later, in Desert Hot Springs, there was a power event, and the entire park was without power for about 12 hours. When power came back on, many rigs had electrical issues of some sort. Easy to see as they were the ones stuck running gensets to power fridges, etc. (Including our neighbour and his diesel gen, so we were acutely aware lol.) The mobile techs were there for the next 5 days getting everyone fixed up, and I did see a lot of new surge protectors/EMS units on pedestals that didn't previously have them.
YMMV, but it is peace of mind I would not be without now.

[-lenny-]

Originally Posted by JohnD10

Every time I plug my 5'ver in...even at my house...the surge protector is on the cord.

Matter of fact, I always leave it attached to the cord!

I never remove it.

We do the same. Pretty hard to leave it behind if it is connected to the power cord.

[Maggot]

Originally Posted by BandJCarm

Weren't you the one that said it was an overpriced unit, not worth the money? You said it only had Low Voltage protection as the only difference in it and a Surge Protector. I was just pointing that out, and rebutting it.

That's what I was answering. No cheap shots. My shots are all expensive.

No. I never said meaningless or over priced. I said "fancy surge".



So there are some more features to an EMS, however still not excited about them personally. I will do a surge protection but an EMS is too fancy and new fangled for me.



I just found it a bit offensive to be quoted then have words put in my text that I absolutely did not type.