What would it take to increase Tow rating?

[Bigred44]

Originally Posted by 3stooge

I am looking at a 27' Sunseeker tomorrow. It is a 2013 model with an E450 chassis. It is rated at 5,000 lb tow capacity.

I notice from an online search that it seems that 2014 and newer versions all have the 7,500 lb tow rating.

Can someone tell me what changed to increase the rating? Was it something as simple as swapping out the hitch or adding air bags? Or was there something done to the frame?

I'm mainly interested in towing my boat right now which would be fine with the 5,000 pound rating, but in the future I would like to start towing our GMC Canyon and I'd like the tow rating to be 7,500 for that.

Thanks for any insight.

Your final drive gear ratio is the biggest factor in towing. Especially when comparing two vehicles that have same engine and trans. Bigger final drive will be rated for higher weight. Bigger gear more torque multiplication.

[DieselDrax]

Everyone commenting on engine, gearing, etc are failing to grasp that the GCWR is the same for the RV with the higher tow rating. They literally have the same GCWR and GVWR. The 5,000lb tow rating with the existing hitch means the GCWR would never be reached.

[PenJoe]

Depending on when the Sunseeker was built, it may be sitting on a 2012 E450 chassis. The year of the coach is not necessarily the year of the cutaway chassis.

Also check this: 2012 Ford E-Series - Specs

[3stooge]

Originally Posted by emm-dee

420 lbs of torque? In a 14,000+ pound vehicle? Seems like they could save a lot of weight by taking that big block V10 out and put a 3.5 EcoBoost six cylinder in and get more power at the same time. Seems like adding 5,000 pounds towed weight would make the unit more of a rolling roadblock than it already is.

Well, I went and bought the "rolling roadblock" and drove it home for the 2.5 hour drive and didn't cause any roadblocks. I think it will do fine towing my boat or GMC Canyon although I probably will upgrade the hitch to a higher classification to get a better safety factor. I'm not sure on the weight of my loaded 21' boat and trailer but I wouldn't be surprised if it was at or a little above 5,000.

[s1njin]

Originally Posted by emm-dee

420 lbs of torque? In a 14,000+ pound vehicle? Seems like they could save a lot of weight by taking that big block V10 out and put a 3.5 EcoBoost six cylinder in and get more power at the same time. Seems like adding 5,000 pounds towed weight would make the unit more of a rolling roadblock than it already is.

I’ve got a 2017 F150 with the 2nd gen EcoBoost. I’m thinking the answer is simply the EB motor would be in full boost all the time. Probably something else going on too with the Torqshift transmission on the Commercial E450 chassis. The E450 is engineered to pack mule that 14500 pounds all day long - can’t say the same for the EB motor fitted to light duty work.

Just my guess.

[emm-dee]

Originally Posted by s1njin

I’ve got a 2017 F150 with the 2nd gen EcoBoost. I’m thinking the answer is simply the EB motor would be in full boost all the time. Probably something else going on too with the Torqshift transmission on the Commercial E450 chassis. The E450 is engineered to pack mule that 14500 pounds all day long - can’t say the same for the EB motor fitted to light duty work.

Just my guess.

Probably true. I just don't understand why they put gas engines in 12,000+ pound vehicles. The PowerStroke and Cummins engines start out at 800 pounds torque. I had an older Cummins 5.9 with 600 pounds output. Now have two Rams...one standard with 800 pounds and the other the HO with 930 pounds. Unbelievable difference between 600 and 800 but I don't seem to notice much between the two new ones until climbing six percent plus hills at 70 mph where the 930 shows its stuff very well.

[Mainframe]

Also rear end gear ratio factors into tow capacity.

[n-e-d]

Originally Posted by 3stooge

Well, I went and bought the "rolling roadblock" and drove it home for the 2.5 hour drive and didn't cause any roadblocks. I think it will do fine towing my boat or GMC Canyon although I probably will upgrade the hitch to a higher classification to get a better safety factor. I'm not sure on the weight of my loaded 21' boat and trailer but I wouldn't be surprised if it was at or a little above 5,000.

Congrats on your new to you rig

[3stooge]

Originally Posted by n-e-d

Congrats on your new to you rig

Thanks!

[Scout]

I have not towed, but I have been near the 14500 limit (many times) and never felt the rig was underpowered. I know the rolling roadblock was meant in jest, and I expected the same when I bought it, but it has proven to be a very well performing setup.

It has consistently been able to keep up speed and only once slowed from 70-60 on an incredible grade in Wyoming with a head wind. It makes a lot of noise, and it gets hot, but it keeps pulling.

[emm-dee]

Yes...roadblock statement was in jest. Glad your unit is working. I've seen so many Class C units struggling up hills on the interstates that I wonder why the manufacturer doesn't put a higher powered diesel engine in. Funny thing I noticed on one of the Isata (Ram based) models the Cummins engine, same type that's in the pickups, is detuned by about 200 pounds of torque. Can't figure that one out but I'm sure there are many factors. Even the Ram Cummins trucks are detuned from 800 down to 600 pounds of torque if a manual transmission is used, but if the Aisan transmission is used the engine is bumped up to about 930 pounds.

[3stooge]

Originally Posted by emm-dee

Yes...roadblock statement was in jest. Glad your unit is working. I've seen so many Class C units struggling up hills on the interstates that I wonder why the manufacturer doesn't put a higher powered diesel engine in. Funny thing I noticed on one of the Isata (Ram based) models the Cummins engine, same type that's in the pickups, is detuned by about 200 pounds of torque. Can't figure that one out but I'm sure there are many factors. Even the Ram Cummins trucks are detuned from 800 down to 600 pounds of torque if a manual transmission is used, but if the Aisan transmission is used the engine is bumped up to about 930 pounds.

I've actually wondered the same thing (about why diesel motors are not used more). I suspect it has to do with the manufacturer feeling like they wouldn't be able to sell many units with a diesel option that would add $10,000 or so to the cost of the RV.

If you jump up to a Super C then you can get diesel motors, but then you are probably a minimum 36 footer and $140,000 plus.

I had a 1 ton diesel pickup truck with slide-in camper, but the camper is really quite cramped. That is why I am going the route of a Motorhome for pulling the boat instead of keeping the truck/camper.

[retireearly]

The van cutaways used in RVs are end of life products that haven't seen any R/D investment in a decade or so. No way they are going to invest in the retooling to get a modern diesel engine crammed into the van, there is just not enough room to contain all the emissions equipment. It will be interesting to see what happens when they quit building these cutaways in a few years.

[3stooge]

I'm kind of surprised more RV manufacturers are not using the Ford F-550 chassis to build motorhomes on.

Xplorer makes custom motorhomes based on that chassis, but they are very expensive.

Xplorer Motor Homes - 28 Ford F550 Xcursion

[s1njin]

It’s weird that they are EOL. There are so many Ford cutaways doing light bus duty down here in Orlando - it’s really quite amazing. And these things are running non-stop in the heat getting the crap kicked out of them.

The E450 chassis might be older but it’s built like a tank.

[Duckogram]

Originally Posted by 3stooge

I'm kind of surprised more RV manufacturers are not using the Ford F-550 chassis to build motorhomes on...

They are and have been for many years. They are called F-53 which is a reworked F-550 made for motorhomes by Ford.

Then there is Adventurer 4:

[moose074]

She 2807 standardized tow rating around 2013 not all manufacturers moved to this standard for a few years however read how they test and most people with common sense realize tow ratings are still a big joke even though standardized lots of room for interpretation and misleading